New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

I am interested in buying a 750w TSDZ2 but all i read searching the interenet is that it is very unreliable!
Is this true,is the TSDZ2 so badly unreliable because the last thing i want is to be fixing and buying parts all the time?
As hard i have googled i can not find any where someone writing about how many miles or km he has made without any issues ,is there anyone that has done 10-15.000 kms or miles trouble free with a TSDZ2?
 
casainho said:
Rvs4 said:
Ok, I'm having another problem. Can anyone help??? I had to change out my sprag clutch because of it slipping when pedaling. But right before I changed it and now even after I changed it I'm having a new issue. I will be pedaling in either Tour or Eco mode and all of a sudden it will accelerate like it's in turbo mode. It has even accelerated on its own without pressing the pedals or throttle. Now what do i do? Please help
Click to expand...
Install our OpenSource firmware so you can debug the issue to find which sensor is failing.
Click to expand...

So, I rode about 45 miles today and the problem has disappeared. I'm hoping it was just a fluke when changing the main gear out. I am though, considering installing your open source firmware. I haven't read everything yet, but apparently I need a new display and have to solder the connection. Is there any way around soldering?
 
Rvs4 said:
.......... I am though, considering installing your open source firmware. I haven't read everything yet, but apparently I need a new display and have to solder the connection. Is there any way around soldering?
Click to expand...
If you don't want to renew your display at once and first want to try the OSF, you can do this too using the original display with Marcoq's fork.
The difference is that you must insert the control settings before flashing with an java interface and can change them only partly on the fly.
 
Aquakitty said:
casainho said:
Bartman said:
I see there’s now a standard TSDZ2 available that has Bluetooth connectivity. A few Europe s sellers on eBay have it.
Click to expand...
An user told me that TSDZ2 Bluetooth version is in fact the regular TSDZ2 + VLCD7 display that has Bluetooth inside: http://www.tsbicycle.net/index.php/content/150

Since VLCD7 is not graphic and is kind of ugly, I think we are best served with the SW102.
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks for the update. I was kind of fantasizing about a bluetooth enabled TSDZ2 that could interface with a PC. I was curious about interfacing the SW102's I have on order with a PC instead, like use it for power meter in Zwift for instance?
Click to expand...

Last year I did this with a PC. Before I developed my Android App I was testing the communication with a PC or MAC. Now my TSDZ2 has the bluetooth module already inside of the motor house. So mine is a bluetooth enabled TSDZ2 already.
Here's my PC testing summary video. If you click on my youtube channel you can find my bluetooth and TSDZ2 related videos as well.
[youtube]f9348KLOhuY[/youtube]
 
valsam said:
I am interested in buying a 750w TSDZ2 but all i read searching the interenet is that it is very unreliable!
Is this true,is the TSDZ2 so badly unreliable because the last thing i want is to be fixing and buying parts all the time?
As hard i have googled i can not find any where someone writing about how many miles or km he has made without any issues ,is there anyone that has done 10-15.000 kms or miles trouble free with a TSDZ2?
Click to expand...
If you want reliability the Bafang BBSHD is as good as it gets. Even at 1500W they're reliable. PAS isn't an option though. At 750-1000W the BBS02 is pretty good also. The TSDZ2 is basically a 350W 20mph motor that can make 750W for a short time. Unless something breaks. Reliability with a BBSHD relates to tearing up driveline parts. A Sturmey Archer 3 speed IGH with a big single speed chain is considered reliable.
 
Hi guys,

I'm new here, I've been reading everything available ... And now I have a problem. :)

I've installed TSDZ2, made 260 km, no issues until today.

Today the engine did not engage. I put the bike on the stand, removed the crank and chain and put the throttle working.
The motor behaves erratically, when the throttle is put to maximum.

Have you seen this issue?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10FQ9PcVPqwL05tWIXGQb2LGYvRw-kCjQ/view?usp=drivesdk

TE and TE1 value are at 104.

I've contacted psw power store (no reply yet).

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!
 
weatherman said:
Hi guys,

I'm new here, I've been reading everything available ... And now I have a problem. :)

I've installed TSDZ2, made 260 km, no issues until today.

Today the engine did not engage. I put the bike on the stand, removed the crank and chain and put the throttle working.
The motor behaves erratically, when the throttle is put to maximum.

Have you seen this issue?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10FQ9PcVPqwL05tWIXGQb2LGYvRw-kCjQ/view?usp=drivesdk

TE and TE1 value are at 104.

I've contacted psw power store (no reply yet).

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I think is probably your fault because you didn't installed the brake sensors and now the blue gear is broken.
 
Hi Casainho,

Thank you for your feedback!
I thought the blue gear failure would manifest itself by some sort of mechanical noise ...
This happened from day to night. Yesterday it was working fine.

So, I've ordered the metal gear and I'll install the brake sensors, when the metal gear arrives.

Is there any other test that I can do to exclude any other issues?

Thanks!
 
weatherman said:
Hi Casainho,

Thank you for your feedback!
I thought the blue gear failure would manifest itself by some sort of mechanical noise ...
This happened from day to night. Yesterday it was working fine.

So, I've ordered the metal gear and I'll install the brake sensors, when the metal gear arrives.

Is there any other test that I can do to exclude any other issues?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Open the motor and see by yourself, see how is the blue gear.
 
weatherman said:
... I have a problem. ... I've installed TSDZ2, made 260 km, ... Today the engine did not engage. ...
Click to expand...

The behavior on the video looks very similar to the way these units respond when they perceives an over-voltage situation, with the factory firmware. Did you happen to charge it just prior to this use? I see from the video that the battery indicator shows full.

While mine does not display this behavior when I run the Flexible Open Source Firmware, it has displayed this behavior since new with the factory firmware. Some have shipped there units back, and they are sent back working fine.

For my unit, when running the factory firmware, all I needed to do was drain of ~0.2 volts from the battery, and it was good to go. I have a 48V system, and when my digital voltmeters shows 54.2 volts for a freshly charged battery, the controller reports about 1.4 volts higher!!! So, I'd drain it to ~54.0 with the lights I ordered with the kit. Can you try something like this?

Finally, and again with the factory firmware, I found that I could ride with a freshly charged battery by turning on the lights for the first two or so minutes of the ride. (Getting away from this without sending it back to China has been the one big benefit of the OS firmware for me, but it come with the price of fine-tuning the OSF to fit your preferences, and, it is yet a work in process.)
 
The behavior on the video looks very similar to the way these units respond when they perceives an over-voltage situation, with the factory firmware. Did you happen to charge it just prior to this use? I see from the video that the battery indicator shows full.
Click to expand...

Hi windburner,

Thank you for the feedback.

I usually charge battery when I arrive home, from work, and use it the next morning. So, as usual, this time I charged the battery, maybe 8-10 hours before using it.

Tomorrow, I'll follow Casainho's suggestion. I'll open the motor and check what's the current condition of the blue gear.

If it is ok, I thing the next step will be to power the motor with a DC 48V (max 16A) power supply and check if the behaviour is ok, slowly ramping up the voltage until this issue appears.

Thank you all... and any other suggestions are welcome.

Regards!

PS - The engine is a 48V 750W bought from PSW store and battery is from eclipse bikes (18650 30Q - 48V 12Ah)
 
weatherman said:
The behavior on the video looks very similar to the way these units respond when they perceives an over-voltage situation, with the factory firmware. Did you happen to charge it just prior to this use? I see from the video that the battery indicator shows full.
Click to expand...

Hi windburner,

Thank you for the feedback.

I usually charge battery when I arrive home, from work, and use it the next morning. So, as usual, this time I charged the battery, maybe 8-10 hours before using it.

Tomorrow, I'll follow Casainho's suggestion. I'll open the motor and check what's the current condition of the blue gear.

If it is ok, I thing the next step will be to power the motor with a DC 48V (max 16A) power supply and check if the behaviour is ok, slowly ramping up the voltage until this issue appears.

Thank you all... and any other suggestions are welcome.

Regards!

PS - The engine is a 48V 750W bought from PSW store and battery is from eclipse bikes (18650 30Q - 48V 12Ah)
Click to expand...

I would reverse the order, try the bench power supply at 48V first. It does not sound like a mechanical issue - this has been seen before by others.
 
So today while out for a ride, about to set off at a traffic light I heard a snap and my leg slipped. The driveside crank had sheared clean off. Only done about 1200 miles on the motor. This happened to anyone else? What are the chances of claiming a warranty replacement? I bought it off the ebird store on aliexpress.

20191022-230548.jpg
 
re:
manoz said:
So today while out for a ride, about to set off at a traffic light I heard a snap and my leg slipped. The driveside crank had sheared clean off. Only done about 1200 miles on the motor. This happened to anyone else? What are the chances of claiming a warranty replacement? I bought it off the ebird store on aliexpress.
Click to expand...

whoa. I snapped a BB just once, was an early Phil Wood bottom bracket I'd just installed on my old Motobecane Grand Record roadie... I was a masher in my younger days, liked to stomp on tall gears. Was running a 54-42 front (campy cranks) and a 'straight block' rear (13-14-15-16-17) when I lived one summer in the flatlands. I forget (hey, it was 40 years ago), but I bet I was trying to launch at a light in 54:16 or something. anyways, I stood on it and it snapped clean off on the non-drive side. I managed to limp home riding with my right leg only, hah hah (straps and toeclips, this was the mid 70s)

you know what gear you were in ? With a mid drive, its pretty important to downshift before stopping, just like with a pure-pedal bike.
 
so... Can I use the FOSS TSDZ2 firmware with a XH18 display/control? I'm building up a TSDZ2 bike for my brother, using his 1999 vintage Trek 6000 mountain bike. Took first test ride today with the stock 48V firmware setup for 500W, and not 100% happy with the PAS performance or the power curve...


IMG_20191022_133022-X3.jpg
 
btw, with a kit like these, what do you all usually do with the excess wiring? I'm thinking of trying to fold it up fairly tightly just forward of the bottom bracket, and wrapping it to the lower end of the downtube with silicone 'fusion' tape, then wrapping the exposed wire runs in spiral loom tiewrapped to the frame.
 
Beware of taping the cable carrying the power to the motor tightly against any of the other cables. There have been reports of strange problems caused by "crosstalk" between the motor cable and sensor cables. It would be a good idea to keep the motor cable separate from sensor cables etc.
 
Drum said:
Beware of taping the cable carrying the power to the motor tightly against any of the other cables. There have been reports of strange problems caused by "crosstalk" between the motor cable and sensor cables. It would be a good idea to keep the motor cable separate from sensor cables etc.
Click to expand...

hmm. with the TSDZ2, the 'motor cable' is entirely internal, so I presume you mean the battery cable?

with the battery on the downtube, all the wires to the bars are going to be going the same way, but at least this battery cable has a much better gauge than the 1000W rear hub motor I put on my wife's bike, where the 3 motor phases were on scary thin wire that gets really hot even with a 500W limit. since those have to fit through the axle, there's not much of an option, although I have been considering putting a connector right near the axle on the seat stay, and using a heavier gauge the rest of the way... catch-22, there's not only 3 power wires to the motor, there's also 5-6 control wires, so this connector would be pretty bulky.

anyways, I'l take this into advisement, and try and shorten and wrap the power wires separately from the rest. actually, I'm thinking of getting rid of the stupid bullet connectors on the battery tray and just soldering the wires from the TSDZ2 directly to the battery tray since its not going anywhere...
 
Elinx said:
LeftCoastNurd said:
.... Can I use the FOSS TSDZ2 firmware with a XH18 display/control? ....
Click to expand...
Yes you can, but you must use Marcoq's fork.
Here you can find more info
Click to expand...

ah, cool....

Probably when I buy a TSDZ2 for my own bike, i'll go ahead and get the 820 preferred display panel, as I don't want to be depedent on a fringe fork.. i was trying to stay away from a big display panel because on my own bike, I'm running a fairly short straight bar, and with the stuff I already have on the bars, there's just not much room, but I'll be getting rid of the speedo and headlight in favor of fork mounted headlights, and the ebike speedo so I can probably make it all fit. that and my first ride today with the XH18, I wasn't that happy with how it worked. it seemed like a better idea in theory than in practice. I like my Ergon ergo grips ...
 
LeftCoastNurd said:
..............

ah, cool....

Probably when I buy a TSDZ2 for my own bike, i'll go ahead and get the 820 preferred display panel, as I don't want to be depedent on a fringe fork.. ...........
Click to expand...
If you use the preferred display (KT.lcd3-850C-SW102) you can setup and try all settings with this display.
If you want to use a default display (vlcd5-vlcd6-xh18), all settings must be done, before flashing, with an Java interface.
The latest version is based on the stable v.19.0
 
Drum said:
Beware of taping the cable carrying the power to the motor tightly against any of the other cables. There have been reports of strange problems caused by "crosstalk" between the motor cable and sensor cables. It would be a good idea to keep the motor cable separate from sensor cables etc.
Click to expand...
No reports in TSDZ2 for crosstalk. I always put my ebikes cables tight between them and it works very well. TSDZ2 hardware have low pass filters to avoid electric interference on the cables due to crosstalk.
 
casainho said:
No reports in TSDZ2 for crosstalk. I always put my ebikes cables tight between them and it works very well. TSDZ2 hardware have low pass filters to avoid electric interference on the cables due to crosstalk.
Click to expand...

excellent.

so... when you're building a bike, if the kit wires are too long, do you

1) fold up the excess and tape/tie it off?
2) cut off the connectors, and solder+shrinkwrap the wires so they are just the right length?
3) open up the various endpoints, and shorten the wires from that end, leaving the connectors on the ends ?
 
LeftCoastNurd said:
casainho said:
No reports in TSDZ2 for crosstalk. I always put my ebikes cables tight between them and it works very well. TSDZ2 hardware have low pass filters to avoid electric interference on the cables due to crosstalk.
Click to expand...

excellent.

so... when you're building a bike, if the kit wires are too long, do you

1) fold up the excess and tape/tie it off?
2) cut off the connectors, and solder+shrinkwrap the wires so they are just the right length?
3) open up the various endpoints, and shorten the wires from that end, leaving the connectors on the ends ?
Click to expand...
2. cut off the connectors, and solder+shrinkwrap the wires so they are just the right length. Connectors can fail more after some time, based on my experience with TSDZ2 on few family ebikes, so, I avoid connectors. And I prefer to have cables with right length so installation is more clean.
 
casainho said:
2. cut off the connectors, and solder+shrinkwrap the wires so they are just the right length. Connectors can fail more after some time, based on my experience with TSDZ2 on few family ebikes, so, I avoid connectors. And I prefer to have cables with right length so installation is more clean.
Click to expand...

cool. ok. I should get some marine shrinkwrap... I know how to stagger splices so cables aren't too lumpy, and will use an outer larger shrinkwrap casing for the whole splice, or wrap it in spiral loom.... this will take some planning to get right, as the bike is getting lights, too, so more wires.
 
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