TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

silentguy · Feb 13, 2020

skestans said:
silentguy said:

General question

I just installed a 36v tsdz2 motor and 850c display that came pre flashed with v19 of the OSF.

Is there any physical difference between the 36v motor (as identified by sticker in motor case) and the 52v motor ? Are they the same motor. ?
I’m wondering if I should have gotten the 48V/52v motor, however I wasnt given a choice.
Just told it was 750 Watts.

I’ve successfully used up to 60v on the motor , but limited the current to 16A.

I just don’t want to melt the motor.

Click to expand...

This is explained on the wiki: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/FAQ#TSDZ2_different_versions

Thanks for the link.
I read now that there are differences in the 36v and 48v motors. What’s the specs on each motor as didn’t see that in the wiki. Both are 750 Watts ?
Is the safe Overvolting 58.8 volts for 48/ 52v motor ?
What about Overvolting a 36v motor. ?

devboy-greg · Feb 13, 2020

silentguy said:
General question

I just installed a 36v tsdz2 motor and 850c display that came pre flashed with v19 of the OSF.

Is there any physical difference between the 36v motor (as identified by sticker in motor case) and the 52v motor ? Are they the same motor. ?
I’m wondering if I should have gotten the 48V/52v motor, however I wasnt given a choice.
Just told it was 750 Watts.

I’ve successfully used up to 60v on the motor , but limited the current to 16A.

I just don’t want to melt the motor.

The only difference between the 36v (rated 350 watts continuous) and the 48v rated (750 watts continuous) motors is the windings on the motor itself, all other components including the controller are the same (as far as I can tell).

I have both the 36v & 48v motors on separate bikes, you can run both at the voltages you state but the 36v motor at sustained higher wattage will burn out.

A real world example of this would be the 1 mile hill climb I do to a trail head near me, using the bike with the 36v motor at a sustained 550 - 600 watts output, by the time I get to the top the hill the motor is very hot to the touch, whereas the same climb with the 48v motor at 650 watts sustained is only lukewarm.

As 'obdc' has stated you should fit a temp sensor to the 36v motor if you wish to run at high voltages and 16A, I'm currently fitting a temp sensor to my 36v motor, even though the bike is a cross county bike so is usually limited to 400w max, it's just better to be safe than sorry.

silentguy · Feb 13, 2020

devboy-greg said:
silentguy said:

General question

I just installed a 36v tsdz2 motor and 850c display that came pre flashed with v19 of the OSF.

Is there any physical difference between the 36v motor (as identified by sticker in motor case) and the 52v motor ? Are they the same motor. ?
I’m wondering if I should have gotten the 48V/52v motor, however I wasnt given a choice.
Just told it was 750 Watts.

I’ve successfully used up to 60v on the motor , but limited the current to 16A.

I just don’t want to melt the motor.

Click to expand...

The only difference between the 36v (rated 350 watts continuous) and the 48v rated (750 watts continuous) motors is the windings on the motor itself, all other components including the controller are the same (as far as I can tell).

I have both the 36v & 48v motors on separate bikes, you can run both at the voltages you state but the 36v motor at sustained higher wattage will burn out.

A real world example of this would be the 1 mile hill climb I do to a trail head near me, using the bike with the 36v motor at a sustained 550 - 600 watts output, by the time I get to the top the hill the motor is very hot to the touch, whereas the same climb with the 48v motor at 650 watts sustained is only lukewarm.

As 'obdc' has stated you should fit a temp sensor to the 36v motor if you wish to run at high voltages and 16A, I'm currently fitting a temp sensor to my 36v motor, even though the bike is a cross county bike so is usually limited to 400w max, it's just better to be safe than sorry.

Thanks for the detailed reply.
Damn , I should have gotten the 48v motor.

Cristian · Feb 13, 2020

Waynemarlow said:
Cristian said:

just ordered a TSDZ2 from PSWPower and i made a mistake. I ordered the XH18 display with no ebrakes. The motor came with a 6-pin connector and i have the cable in the attached picture with a 850C display to get OSF working with brake sensors and temp sensor. Can it be done? Or should i order another controller with the correct cables attached and swap it?

Click to expand...

PSWPower used to send out all units with 8Pin connectors until recently when we too ordered a motor without brakes etc and it turned up with an 6 pin connector.Dang that was a real pain.

Sadlly it really screws up your options somewhat as all the 8 pins are needed for both brake and throttle/temp and although you can chop wiring just outside the controller itself as you won't need the throttle wires it still leaves you having to dig into the potting on the controller to find the wires for the temp sensor.

I had no idea they would do this. I figured i wouldn't need the brake levers, so why order the kit with them. I already ordered a 8-pin 48V controller, so i will have to wait for it to arrive, then get things sorted out.

skestans said:
I got my 52V 17.0Ah battery from em3ev. Very happy with it so far.

If all you want (like I did) is too not have the motor engage when you're at a red light, foot on the pedal, and brakes engaged; then the OSF has an option to only add motor power if it feels torque on the pedals AND pedal rotation. This way, I can rest my foot on the pedal while braking and not have the motor engage, without a brake sensor. I didn't have this option on the stock firmware.

Thank you. Do they ship from the EU? I see they have hugely overpriced batteries, compared to UnitPackPower. It would be weird to also have to pay customs tax at the price they're asking.

obcd · Feb 13, 2020

They are not hugely overpriced as they only use quality cells and quality bluetooth bms boards. (At least that's what they claim to do) Do you want to pay a little more or constantly live with the fear they might set your house on fire one day? The battery still is the most expensive and important part of your E-bike.

thineight · Feb 13, 2020

Cristian said:
I just ordered a TSDZ2 from PSWPower and i made a mistake. I ordered the XH18 display with no ebrakes. The motor came with a 6-pin connector and i have the cable in the attached picture with a 850C display to get OSF working with brake sensors and temp sensor. Can it be done? Or should i order another controller with the correct cables attached and swap it?

Hello, once you manage to wire that cable to the new display you can buy the magnetic brake sensor (8€ for a pair) and connect them to the two twin yellow ports of your cable. Stock and OS firmwares will deal with the brake sensor automatically as brake sensors short the GND and BRAKE wires.

Waynemarlow · Feb 14, 2020

devboy-greg said:
I have both the 36v & 48v motors on separate bikes, you can run both at the voltages you state but the 36v motor at sustained higher wattage will burn out.

A real world example of this would be the 1 mile hill climb I do to a trail head near me, using the bike with the 36v motor at a sustained 550 - 600 watts output, by the time I get to the top the hill the motor is very hot to the touch, whereas the same climb with the 48v motor at 650 watts sustained is only lukewarm.

As 'obdc' has stated you should fit a temp sensor to the 36v motor if you wish to run at high voltages and 16A, I'm currently fitting a temp sensor to my 36v motor, even though the bike is a cross county bike so is usually limited to 400w max, it's just better to be safe than sorry.

The only thing was the 48V unit standard had a really low cadence peak out, has anybody tried the V20 with the experimental cadence enabled on the 48 volt motor, I changed back to a 36 Volt motor on 52volts and its cadence sort of peaks around the 95rpm which is fine by me, but as always when you have the power, you just want a little more and I may switch the motors back out again.

devboy-greg · Feb 14, 2020

Waynemarlow said:
devboy-greg said:

I have both the 36v & 48v motors on separate bikes, you can run both at the voltages you state but the 36v motor at sustained higher wattage will burn out.

A real world example of this would be the 1 mile hill climb I do to a trail head near me, using the bike with the 36v motor at a sustained 550 - 600 watts output, by the time I get to the top the hill the motor is very hot to the touch, whereas the same climb with the 48v motor at 650 watts sustained is only lukewarm.

As 'obdc' has stated you should fit a temp sensor to the 36v motor if you wish to run at high voltages and 16A, I'm currently fitting a temp sensor to my 36v motor, even though the bike is a cross county bike so is usually limited to 400w max, it's just better to be safe than sorry.

Click to expand...

The only thing was the 48V unit standard had a really low cadence peak out, has anybody tried the V20 with the experimental cadence enabled on the 48 volt motor, I changed back to a 36 Volt motor on 52volts and its cadence sort of peaks around the 95rpm which is fine by me, but as always when you have the power, you just want a little more and I may switch the motors back out again.

I have recently switched my 48v motor using V20 to run in high cadence mode, I also prefer a higher cadence and would say it is an improvement over the standard mode.

As for how good it is compared to the 36v motor in high cadence mode I would say it is comparable, my high cadence peddling is usually somewhere around 80 - 95. Other set up options may be affecting my power output at any given cadence so only take this a a guide, but it is definitely worth giving the 48v motor in high cadence mode a go.

skestans · Feb 14, 2020

Cristian said:
Waynemarlow said:

Cristian said:

just ordered a TSDZ2 from PSWPower and i made a mistake. I ordered the XH18 display with no ebrakes. The motor came with a 6-pin connector and i have the cable in the attached picture with a 850C display to get OSF working with brake sensors and temp sensor. Can it be done? Or should i order another controller with the correct cables attached and swap it?

Click to expand...

PSWPower used to send out all units with 8Pin connectors until recently when we too ordered a motor without brakes etc and it turned up with an 6 pin connector.Dang that was a real pain.

Sadlly it really screws up your options somewhat as all the 8 pins are needed for both brake and throttle/temp and although you can chop wiring just outside the controller itself as you won't need the throttle wires it still leaves you having to dig into the potting on the controller to find the wires for the temp sensor.

Click to expand...

I had no idea they would do this. I figured i wouldn't need the brake levers, so why order the kit with them. I already ordered a 8-pin 48V controller, so i will have to wait for it to arrive, then get things sorted out.

skestans said:

I got my 52V 17.0Ah battery from em3ev. Very happy with it so far.

If all you want (like I did) is too not have the motor engage when you're at a red light, foot on the pedal, and brakes engaged; then the OSF has an option to only add motor power if it feels torque on the pedals AND pedal rotation. This way, I can rest my foot on the pedal while braking and not have the motor engage, without a brake sensor. I didn't have this option on the stock firmware.

Click to expand...

Thank you. Do they ship from the EU? I see they have hugely overpriced batteries, compared to UnitPackPower. It would be weird to also have to pay customs tax at the price they're asking.

It seemed to me their batteries, case, BMS, cells, and holders were vastly superior to other options for the same size and so I didn’t mind paying extra for the quality and peace of mind.

The batteries are very well built, the rack has a metal backplane and the tabs are very thick so I don’t stress they my battery will unhook and fall every time there is a bump in the road. And their support is also very nice with any tinkering questions you might have afterwards.

They ship UPS from HK it takes about a week to Europe. They will declare whatever amount you want so you can quote a number that allows for duty and tax free delivery where you live.

The premium is absolutely worth it in my opinion and if you compare the prices after shipping for a part that you’ll use daily for the next few years, the difference in price is not that much compared to the peace of mind.

They also have very good warranty terms (didn’t need it myself but others have said) and they don’t require you ship the 5kg battery back to China for service.

silentguy · Feb 14, 2020

Can someone please explain expert mode to me ?

I usually run in the 36v mode , but I am wondering if I am missing something ?

shodr · Feb 14, 2020

Flashing 850c with CH340 TTL

I have issue flashing my 850c with my USB to TTL board CH340

https://www.banggood.com/CH340-3_3V5_5V-USB-To-TTL-Converter-Module-CH340G-STC-Download-Module-Upgrade-Brush-Board-p-1227701.html?cur_warehouse=CN

It has a jumper on 3.3v and VCC pin. As I understand it it controls voltage on the tx, rx pins and this is the same voltage as in CP2102.

Last time I tried using the recommended one but was broken (see posts on previous page). My local supplier had only this one, did not want to wait for new one from China.

This board works. Installs correctly. I installed the latest drivers. I set it up as in the wiki guide. Screen powers up and the tx,rx lights on TTL board start flashing, and the RX, TX counters on the bottom of the APT app go up in number.

When trying to use the apt app I cannot install the firmware. I only get one message in gibberish and sound like when you insert USB into computer. Then it hangs in waiting. See picture.

Any help appreciated.

shodr · Feb 14, 2020

Have an update.

I checked the ttl board with putty and it works correctly.

Changed locale to Chinese to display correct characters and translated the characters. I get

沒有打開的串口!

google translate to:

No open serial port!

Did not find anyone else have the same problem. Also when I connect the 850c to Comp and its off the RX light is always on, when I turn the screen on RX starts blinking rapidly. is this normal behaviour of the 850c or is it fired.

When the screen is of the voltage on RX is constant at 3V, and 1V on TX.

tnx.

obcd · Feb 14, 2020

Are you sure you can reflash the 850C with a CH340 based usb2ttl serial adapter?
I was under the impression the flashing software only supported adapters with the CP2102 chipset.
Besides appearing as a comport, some windows drivers have a "low level" way to access the usb2 serial bridge chip.
Maybe the flashing app is using such?
I'll be happy if I'm proven wrong.
I assume you are sure the app uses the correct comport nummer that was assigned to the adapter?
You didn't leave putty open in the background using the comport?

skestans · Feb 14, 2020

I flashed mine with a CH340 after accidentally frying my CP2102. I left the jumper open so I don’t know if my vcc was 3.3V or 5V on the CH340. BIT it worked without damage.

Your error has to do with windows not able to grab the com port to the serial adapter. I have a 850c with shot serial lines and the error is different in that case: you can grab the com port but it never detects the display turning on for flashing. And if you plug it back into the motor with stock firmware, the watt meter below the speed goes nuts, and the walk assist doesn’t do anything. These are the symptoms for shot serial on the 850c.

In your case it looks like a shitdows issue.

Rydon · Feb 15, 2020

jeff.page.rides said:
Hi Casainho, did you receive the 860C from https://www.electrifybike.com that they sent you?
They flashed it before they sent it with the 850C flash using the same method and it worked almost. If you hold down the power button while powering up then the display will display but the color mapping is wrong. It goes black when you let go of the power button, so there is something different let’s hope it’s small and easy to overcome.
What do you think? Do you know at this time how much more work it is going to be to get the software for 850C to work on the 860C?

Jeff, when we send hardware to an OSF engineer it is 'no strings attached'. There was never any commitment to support the 860C. It is just like any other request or suggestion that someone puts out on this forum. The engineers have busy lives and have their own priorities. If it happens great! Just don't expect it or assume it is being worked on.

shodr · Feb 17, 2020

skestans said:
I flashed mine with a CH340 after accidentally frying my CP2102. I left the jumper open so I don’t know if my vcc was 3.3V or 5V on the CH340. BIT it worked without damage.

Your error has to do with windows not able to grab the com port to the serial adapter. I have a 850c with shot serial lines and the error is different in that case: you can grab the com port but it never detects the display turning on for flashing. And if you plug it back into the motor with stock firmware, the watt meter below the speed goes nuts, and the walk assist doesn’t do anything. These are the symptoms for shot serial on the 850c.

In your case it looks like a shitdows issue.

Hi,

did you use separate power for display or like in wiki.

I think I also shot my 850c serial line. Tried in win7, got same result.

In putty if I try to connect to it like in APT, it connects to it, then when I short press the power button I get "error reading from serial device", windows makes sound like I plugged in/out usb dongle, and putty freezes, with putty "inactive" on the status.

If I turn on 850c there is an error code 30h - which is related to serial connection.

Is there a way to test serial connection on 850c with computer.Don't have bafang motor to test it.

Should the RX led (on ttl dongle) be lit on when in flashing mode, voltage is only 1V (white RX line), on tx line (on ttl dongle) it is 3.3V (green line) and led is not on. There is also difference in resistance btw tx and rx line (15k ohm TX to GND vs 8k ohm on RX).

tnx.

skestans · Feb 17, 2020

At first I used the 5V from the usb dongle, connected to the power booster. But after melting down my CP2102 by pulling too much because I set the power booster too high, I switched to an external power supply for the voltage booster so I don’t fry another serial adapter.

I also had the error 30h on my shot display, I didn’t know it had to do with serial.

Have you tried connecting it back to the bike and seeing if walk assist does anything?

shodr · Feb 18, 2020

skestans said:
At first I used the 5V from the usb dongle, connected to the power booster. But after melting down my CP2102 by pulling too much because I set the power booster too high, I switched to an external power supply for the voltage booster so I don’t fry another serial adapter.

I also had the error 30h on my shot display, I didn’t know it had to do with serial.

Have you tried connecting it back to the bike and seeing if walk assist does anything?

I did not flas the motor (tsdz2), will connecting 850c to motor with stock firmware work for test purposes.

skestans · Feb 18, 2020

shodr said:
skestans said:

At first I used the 5V from the usb dongle, connected to the power booster. But after melting down my CP2102 by pulling too much because I set the power booster too high, I switched to an external power supply for the voltage booster so I don’t fry another serial adapter.

I also had the error 30h on my shot display, I didn’t know it had to do with serial.

Have you tried connecting it back to the bike and seeing if walk assist does anything?

Click to expand...

I did not flas the motor (tsdz2), will connecting 850c to motor with stock firmware work for test purposes.

Well so you still have stock firmware on both the motor and the display? If so, you can plug them back together and see if walk assist does anything. If it doesn’t you might be wasting your time because your display doesn’t have a working serial interface anymore and there is nothing more you can do short of buying a new display.

If it does work, then your issue is elsewhere.

lvx_xvl · Feb 18, 2020

lvx_xvl said:
Hi ALl,

And thank you for your replies.

@mctubster: I actually did look into your video before :thumb: , I came across it while I was searching Youtube for TSDZ2. It all seams so easy....
But yes, same wiring. I tried with and without the 'reset'.

@ImpuslePurchase: Yes I've read through it, and it did give me some insights. For me the hardest bit is understanding how they (Tong Sheng) manage to use these pins/plug to program the stm8. I never had trouble connecting to a device: arduino like or other development boards. It made me think there is a need for a bit of extra hardware, maybe a resistor to pull the device pin up or down. But I cannot find any information. I've checked the ST docs, and they don't even state a maximum length for the programming cable. And the whole idea behind 'SWIM' is to program 'in circuit'.
I did also order an extension cable for the speed sensor, I've been looking to 'jbalatutube' youtube videos. :wink:
I'm using to 5V of the dongle, but I also tried to battery mode, so switching on the system via the VLCD5, and then only ground and swim to the dongle.

@Waynemarlow: I will give it a try, as soon as the weather gets better here. Storm 'Ciara' is having fun around here.

@skestans: I didn't know you can update the ST link dongles. I will check on that. Funny that the stm8flash tools only work for you. That for me means it is not the hardware that is failing. This actually triggered me that maybe my laptop is the trouble maker. I only have a macbook to try next. I hope it isn't my windows/linux laptop. I will definitely try that to....

Many thanks to you all for giving me advice. It has been a struggle, frustrating struggle to get this project going.

I will update with results soon

best regards,
LVX

Hi All,

I just wanted to share my updates on trying to program the firmware of the TSDZ2.

I've now tried 3 types of dongles. 2 Chinese clones and one official (Chinese clone) of the ST Link V2. I've also used 3 types of laptops with and without the power connected. 2 laptops running windows and one running osx. The windows machines run the ST Visual Programmer software and will always return the "cannot communicate with device" error, and osx machine with stm8flash returns the "tries exceeded" error.

I've used the shortest possible dupont wires, and tried to measure the connection continuity, which is very hard. They seem to connect fine.

So what would that best practice be to try to get this working. Is there physical disconnection of these wires to the mainboard?? I really don't want to disassemble to motor, specially because it is resin filled.

regards,
Loek

skestans · Feb 18, 2020

Man that sucks. Are you using a speed sensor connector, or DuPont wires with heat shrink tube at the ends? If DuPont, maybe you’re not getting a good connection and should try with a speed sensor extension cable so you get the proper connector and good contact.

If your speed sensing works correctly (ie displays the right speed on the display) and you’ve tried so many computers and dongles, the only option left is a bad connection at the plug.

You could try with a Linux live disc and see if stm8flash works there but if it didn’t work on OS X...

casainho · Feb 18, 2020

lvx_xvl said:
So what would that best practice be to try to get this working. Is there physical disconnection of these wires to the mainboard?? I really don't want to disassemble to motor, specially because it is resin filled.

You don´t want do disassembly the motor controller but after all your tries, I think you don´t have other option. I would buy a new motor controller because that one you have may have some cable damaged. The motor controller is cheap!! (I mean compared with Bafang motor controllers, for instance).

lvx_xvl · Feb 18, 2020

casainho said:
I think you don´t have other option.

Oooh damn, I was so afraid for that answer!
I think I'm going to leave the VLCD5 display on for the moment, and start enjoying my bike for a short while.

Thanks for all of your answers!

lvx_xvl · Feb 18, 2020

skestans said:
Man that sucks. Are you using a speed sensor connector, or DuPont wires with heat shrink tube at the ends? If DuPont, maybe you’re not getting a good connection and should try with a speed sensor extension cable so you get the proper connector and good contact.

If your speed sensing works correctly (ie displays the right speed on the display) and you’ve tried so many computers and dongles, the only option left is a bad connection at the plug.

You could try with a Linux live disc and see if stm8flash works there but if it didn’t work on OS X...

I'm using the speedsensor connector with the Dupont wires (4cm long) and heat shrink tubes. And you are right that might be the issue, but they really snuck in tight. So I'm assuming (very bad I know) they work. If I connect the GND, 5V and SWIM and boot the bike via the VLCD5 display then my ST Link V2 boots, so I'm fairly confident (I know very bad) that the connection is working.

I used a speed sensor extension cable at first, but a lot of people point out to the long leads being the problem.

regards,
LVX

obcd · Feb 18, 2020

Doesn't the st-link boot as soon as it has gnd and 5V. (No idea, just thinking loud)

Maybe someone can tell if you are suposed to measure a voltage on the swim line.
If it should have some, you could measure it.
If it's there it means the wires are making contact.

Let's assume you have a motor that was assembled on friday afternoon and finished on monday morning.
Is it possible 2 wires got reversed (again just thinking loud) like the light signal and swim signal?

Again, you should measure 6V on the light signal when you turn the light on.

I have learned from experience that testing is always better than assuming.

If you ask someone a question and he answers "I assume it's xx" or "I think it's xx" it actually means he doesn't know sh*t and you
should ignore his answer. (I even catch myself answering like that sometimes)

TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

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