New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Hi all,

Just throwing out a quick line or two about my experience with the brass vs blue plastic gears.

I have the 750W 48V TSDZ2. Rode the original blue plastic gear for a good 2000km before it crapped out.

Thought I would give the brass gear a go as I thought it would be more durable. Not so! It lasted me about another 1000km before disintegrating spectacularly into brass shards and glitter (just what you want inside a motor).

Managed to clean it all out again and am now back to the blue plastic gear. It seemed to last me much longer, it's lighter, cheaper, quieter and won't scatter metal shards throughout your motor.

Lesson learned here!

Hope this helps others.

Cheers
 
echew said:
... Thought I would give the brass cog a go ... now back to the blue plastic cog. It seemed to last me much longer, it's lighter, cheaper, quieter ...

Thanks for the interesting use report on the brass gear. After hearing all of the blue gear destruction talk shortly after buying and installing our TSDZ2, I almost bought a brass gear to replace the blue preemptively, just to save some downstream frustration. I never did, and now certain to stay with the blue, as have seen several reports now of the noise, and, who wants shards!
 
echew said:
Hi all,

Managed to clean it all out again and am now back to the blue plastic cog. It seemed to last me much longer, it's lighter, cheaper, quieter and won't scatter metal shards throughout your motor.

Lesson learned here!

Hope this helps others.

Cheers
What grease did you use for the new blue gear?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
echew said:
Just throwing out a quick line or two about my experience with the brass vs blue plastic cogs.

Thought I would also add my experience with the brass gear:

I ran the brass gear for a while, but after noticing the noise, brass shards and Casainho's post some time back about preferring the blue gear over the brass one, I switched back.

So far running the blue gear on a 750W 48V motor on an enduro bike (on off the power all the time) for some 1000km it's been problem free, I do however have brake sensors installed and a reasonable current ramp up of only 6A.

+1 for the blue gear from me.
 
devboy-greg said:
So far running the blue gear on a 750W 48V motor on an enduro bike (on off the power all the time) for some 1000km it's been problem free, I do however have brake sensors installed and a reasonable current ramp up of only 6A.

+1 for the blue gear from me.
This is an important feedback to have, I hope it clarifies others the importance of correctly understand the different existing configurations of TSDZ2.
 
Darkerside said:
Thanks Ilu; it's a sprung base mount for a Hamax Caress childseat.

To describe exactly what I can feel:

IMG_20200510_1201042-scaled.jpg

I can feel no lateral movement in the axle (ie nothing at all on the green axis). There's slight rock in the cranks (blue axis - not enough to see, but I can feel it bump when I push and pull it), and a good mm of play on the cog (red) - I can see it rock side to side when I rock it.

Those instructions look like they would fix play on green, but not my blue and red?

So I received shims: they only affect the lateral movement but not the axle play.

As said by safeaschuck, the issue is that the axle diameter is smaller than the bearing.
 
romelec said:
Darkerside said:
Thanks Ilu; it's a sprung base mount for a Hamax Caress childseat.

To describe exactly what I can feel:

IMG_20200510_1201042-scaled.jpg

I can feel no lateral movement in the axle (ie nothing at all on the green axis). There's slight rock in the cranks (blue axis - not enough to see, but I can feel it bump when I push and pull it), and a good mm of play on the cog (red) - I can see it rock side to side when I rock it.

Those instructions look like they would fix play on green, but not my blue and red?

So I received shims: they only affect the lateral movement but not the axle play.

As said by safeaschuck, the issue is that the axle diameter is smaller than the bearing.

Applying bearing mount will eliminate the inner race to axle play.
 
Hello,
I just recently finished an install of a 52v 750w TSDZ2 and everything seemed to be fine. I watched a short video on setting the initial parameters of the original software on the vlcd5 display. Of course that took a couple tries and timed out on me once or twice but once I got the hang of it I stepped through the parameters fairly easily. Being in the USA I needed to set the speed/odometer to mph. I have 650b tires so I set the wheel size to 27 as maybe the best option. Turned off walk assist and speed limit and left the amps set to 16. I decided to go down and double check the settings and when I step through to “S” my display is reading 0000 and toggling the +- buttons has no effect. It seemed like when I first went through the setup there were numbers there...and I’d like it to be more like 25mph but I don’t understand why it’s showing 0000 now. I’ve gone in and out of the setup menu multiple times and I’ve toggled a bunch of the other settings just to make sure they’re not froze on original settings and I was able to turn walk assist on and off and toggle through wheel size etc. hope someone here can tell me what’s going on.
 
andrewgateway said:
echew said:
Hi all,

Managed to clean it all out again and am now back to the blue plastic cog. It seemed to last me much longer, it's lighter, cheaper, quieter and won't scatter metal shards throughout your motor.

Lesson learned here!

Hope this helps others.

Cheers
What grease did you use for the new blue gear?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
tal
My favorit grease for blue gear and all other from TSDZ2 is "TOTAL CERAN XM 220"
 
Hi everyone, I'm new on the forum
I present myself a little bit: I'm a french 34 years old man (sorry for my bad english and my text a little ).

I know a little bit the tongsheng TSDZ2 because I have read some topics on this forum.

A few years ago, I offered my mother an electric city bike (bought in a shop) with TSDZ2 250 W mid drive motor, 42T used with rear gear 7s 12-32T.
The screen is VLCD5 restricted to 25 km/h and 250W (France), I can't see and modify hiden menus for example the wheel diametre and the speed limit.

The stock version of this motor and the stock firm have (to my mind) pro: light weight 3.6 kg, torque sensor, not too wires to cable, but they have also some issues, perhaps to be improved:

+ max rpm 90 rpm
+ weak torque assistance at high rpm (70~90 rpm),
+ breakdown power in level 1 &2 mode, when I press the pedals weakly, perhaps the sensor is not sensitive enough.

I have a new project: to motorise a road bike peugeot size 54 and I wonder if it's a good idea to use the TDSZ2 for it.
Ideally I wish this motor to reach 110 rpm and 750w,
I would like to use it with a single bottom chain ring 42T or a double chain ring 42-52T with 9s rear gear 11-32T to reach 45-50 km/h on a flat road .

On the website of the store eco bike (Nashville US) we can see: 750W TSDZ2 48V overdrive motor with opensource firmware,

so I would like to ask some questions ?

+ Has this overdrive motor a little more torque than the stock's one version with 80 Nm ?
+ Does it provide more rpm ? how many 100-110 or 120 rpm ?
+ more levels by using the bafang screen: 9 instead of 4
+ I wonder if the open source firmware proposed by eco cycle is M. Cashaino's one ?
+ Does the open source firmware improve the responsivness of the torque sensor for example in case of the little strenght on pedals ?
+ How many is the chain line with the stock iron "bell" 42T chain ring ? 45 mm?
+ How many would it be if I use a spider and the two straight chain ring 42T and 52T ?
+ In case of use with a road bike up hill (gradient 20 percent max), do you advise me to choose the blue plastic gear or the brass one ?

Thanks in advance for your answers.
Nico
 
Hi from Australia, haven't posted for a long time, but still into electric bikes, & my original cheap eBay direct drive hub bike has been improved over the years, & is still going strong.
Now for my latest project. I ordered a TSDZ2 kit, months ago just before the Covid 19 restrictions kicked in. & I still haven't got it. I thought things might get difficult, so I ordered it from Amazon AU, from a company called Greenergy-AU. It costed more than ordering from China, but I was thinking that I would be ordering from Australian stock.
Not so. It's coming from China anyway
Tracking tells me that it's still stuck at " Depart from overseas processing facility", & has been for a month now.
Anyway the delay has given me plenty of time to select a candidate bike for the TSDZ2 if & when it arrives. So I bought a great bike on Gumtree, that would be very suitable, & it was only $125. It's a Raceline Comp. Not very well known, but Raceline was the high end of Apollo, who are a very reputable bike brand in Australia. This bike is very well equipped. With decent Manitou forks, Hayes hydraulic disc brakes. Mavic rims on Shimano hubs. 9 speed cassette with Deore XTR derailleur. Deore shifters, all in a nice big light alloy hardtail frame with a standard 68mm BSA BB.
All set, but still waiting for the motor, & then I see on Gumtree an almost new condition, 2008 Giant Trance X0 frame, with 5" of Fox Float air suspension. More than twice the price of the Raceline, but it really is a thing of beauty. So I bought it thinking I might cannabalise all the good bits from the Raceline, put them on the Giant frame, & have a nice full suspension bike for the motor when it comes.
I know I would have more difficulties installing the motor in the FS frame, but at least it is a 68mm BSA BB.
What is the community opinion.
Is the extra difficulty of fitting worth the extra comfort of the FS frame, considering that I'm an older bloke, & probably won't be going more off road than gravel walking paths. Or should I stick to the Raceline, which is pretty much an ideal install.
 
BMboomer said:
Hi from Australia, haven't posted for a long time, but still into electric bikes, & my original cheap eBay direct drive hub bike has been improved over the years, & is still going strong.
Now for my latest project. I ordered a TSDZ2 kit, months ago just before the Covid 19 restrictions kicked in. & I still haven't got it. I thought things might get difficult, so I ordered it from Amazon AU, from a company called Greenergy-AU. It costed more than ordering from China, but I was thinking that I would be ordering from Australian stock.
Not so. It's coming from China anyway
Tracking tells me that it's still stuck at " Depart from overseas processing facility", & has been for a month now.
Anyway the delay has given me plenty of time to select a candidate bike for the TSDZ2 if & when it arrives. So I bought a great bike on Gumtree, that would be very suitable, & it was only $125. It's a Raceline Comp. Not very well known, but Raceline was the high end of Apollo, who are a very reputable bike brand in Australia. This bike is very well equipped. With decent Manitou forks, Hayes hydraulic disc brakes. Mavic rims on Shimano hubs. 9 speed cassette with Deore XTR derailleur. Deore shifters, all in a nice big light alloy hardtail frame with a standard 68mm BSA BB.
All set, but still waiting for the motor, & then I see on Gumtree an almost new condition, 2008 Giant Trance X0 frame, with 5" of Fox Float air suspension. More than twice the price of the Raceline, but it really is a thing of beauty. So I bought it thinking I might cannabalise all the good bits from the Raceline, put them on the Giant frame, & have a nice full suspension bike for the motor when it comes.
I know I would have more difficulties installing the motor in the FS frame, but at least it is a 68mm BSA BB.
What is the community opinion.
Is the extra difficulty of fitting worth the extra comfort of the FS frame, considering that I'm an older bloke, & probably won't be going more off road than gravel walking paths. Or should I stick to the Raceline, which is pretty much an ideal install.

Every full suspension bike is diffrent to install the TSDZ2 on. So try it on the full suspension bike first and if it's simple give it a try. If it is going to take a lot of work or will not work you can move it to the hardtail.
 
Back to the loose and or wobbling crank axle problems, and thanks to safeaschuck for posting the detailed pics (way) above.
I have TSDZ2 on my wife's cargo bike, and other than some initialization problems seemingly fixed, if not totally eliminated, by a firmware upgrade (stellar customer service from EcoCycles, BTW) -she loves it.
But... after less than 150km the axle wobble has become a regular clunking sound every pedal rotation. This is not the in-out problem but the up/down one shown by the measurements in the pics referenced and rapidly getting worse.
Seems to happen to most of them eventually, I doubt there is much the seller can do about it so I will tackle it myself.
This is not the sprag clutch issue, that wobble we can live with and it self centers under load anyway.

I have added the second left side bearing as recommended but it made little difference. The shims between bearing and axle is a possibility, but I believe the (very innovative) plastic shaving method on the right side is doomed to failure as the plastic will compress quickly and probably extrude out of the gap.

One comment I would make is that rather than sloppy manufacture, I believe the undersize shaft is done for assembly purposes. A proper fit here would be a light press on ...both... the axle itself and the bore that the bearing fits in. This takes care, time and some assembly tooling as the inner and outer races need to be pushed evenly or you wind up with a gritty bearing (brinelling on the races). Mine requires some effort on the outer race but the inner one just slides on.

So I would like to discuss some alternatives.
Way earlier in this thread (and I have read all 288 pages) someone indicated they were going to quote a replacement shaft with the correct diameters, but no subsequent posts. I have thought of fabricating one myself but the splines present a problem, though not an insurmountable one.
Then there is Locktite sleeve and bearing retainer. This may have worked for some but my personal experience with it, mostly on automotive front wheel bearings, has not been great. Anyone care to comment on how long this has worked for them?
Some other methods come to mind-
First, it is possible to build up a shaft diameter by flash chroming and regrinding to the correct diameter. Expensive for a one-off but doable. Has anyone looked into this?
Second, if the shaft is soft enough it may be possible to knurl the bearing seats to increase the diameter a bit. I may try this once I figure out how hard the shaft actually is. This would be a relatively easy and inexpensive way to do it.
Pics of broken-at-the-snap ring parts show the whole shaft is likely hardened rather than just the splines though.
And third... just spitballing here, but analog to the adhesive plastic shim idea, building up the bearing seats with plain soft solder and then turning/sanding down to a light press fit.

We have 3 bikes with BBS02s and all have proven to be quite reliable, but once you experience torque sensing (and OSF), cadence-only feels pretty old school -especially on a relatively slow speed cargo trike, so I really want to find a solution before I purchase a second unit.
 
nico057 said:
Hi everyone, I'm new on the forum
I present myself a little bit: I'm a french 34 years old man (sorry for my bad english and my text a little ).

I know a little bit the tongsheng TSDZ2 because I have read some topics on this forum.

A few years ago, I offered my mother an electric city bike (bought in a shop) with TSDZ2 250 W mid drive motor, 42T used with rear gear 7s 12-32T.
The screen is VLCD5 restricted to 25 km/h and 250W (France), I can't see and modify hiden menus for example the wheel diametre and the speed limit.

The stock version of this motor and the stock firm have (to my mind) pro: light weight 3.6 kg, torque sensor, not too wires to cable, but they have also some issues, perhaps to be improved:

+ max rpm 90 rpm
+ weak torque assistance at high rpm (70~90 rpm),
+ breakdown power in level 1 &2 mode, when I press the pedals weakly, perhaps the sensor is not sensitive enough.

I have a new project: to motorise a road bike peugeot size 54 and I wonder if it's a good idea to use the TDSZ2 for it.
Ideally I wish this motor to reach 110 rpm and 750w,
I would like to use it with a single bottom chain ring 42T or a double chain ring 42-52T with 9s rear gear 11-32T to reach 45-50 km/h on a flat road .

On the website of the store eco bike (Nashville US) we can see: 750W TSDZ2 48V overdrive motor with opensource firmware,

so I would like to ask some questions ?

+ Has this overdrive motor a little more torque than the stock's one version with 80 Nm ?
+ Does it provide more rpm ? how many 100-110 or 120 rpm ?
+ more levels by using the bafang screen: 9 instead of 4
+ I wonder if the open source firmware proposed by eco cycle is M. Cashaino's one ?
+ Does the open source firmware improve the responsivness of the torque sensor for example in case of the little strenght on pedals ?
+ How many is the chain line with the stock iron "bell" 42T chain ring ? 45 mm?
+ How many would it be if I use a spider and the two straight chain ring 42T and 52T ?
+ In case of use with a road bike up hill (gradient 20 percent max), do you advise me to choose the blue plastic gear or the brass one ?

Thanks in advance for your answers.
Nico

If I was doing a road bike I would start with a single 52, so you will have the top speed. On our MTB bikes, we use a single 42.
 
I'm installing a new 48V motor and new blue gear in my TSDZ2 and want to know if White Lithium grease would be good for the gears? I have a tube of it is why I ask.

Thank you
 
Brlowe said:
I'm installing a new 48V motor and new blue gear in my TSDZ2 and want to know if White Lithium grease would be good for the gears? I have a tube of it is why I ask.

Thank you

Lithium Grease is not the best for all plastic gears. You can found this in internet! I use "Total Ceran XM 220". The consistence is nearly how the original grease and is with Calciumsulfonat. Great!
 
mallesepp said:
Brlowe said:
I'm installing a new 48V motor and new blue gear in my TSDZ2 and want to know if White Lithium grease would be good for the gears? I have a tube of it is why I ask.

Thank you

Lithium Grease is not the best for all plastic gears. You can found this in internet! I use "Total Ceran XM 220". The consistence is nearly how the original grease and is with Calciumsulfonat. Great!

Really? When I google "Best grease for Plastic gears" the first thing that comes up says most manufactures recommend white lithium grease or silicone-based grease?
I will look for the grease you listed and or make sure my lithium is not petroleum based.
 
I'm deciding between going with a mid-drive or a hub motor. With the TSDZ2 how is the throttle operation? I like to coast with little to know legs now and again, and pedal uphills with very light pedalling (queensland summer = almost no pedalling to get to work) How fast does it go on throttle only? Is it usable and is there a difference between stock firmware and OSF by using it in this way?
 
casainho said:
izeman said:
Everything in the motor looks fine. All gears look intact, bearings are ok - Chinese style, and I can't find any obvious problem.
As I mentioned: When I pedal there is no noise, so it clearly comes from the motor. And it's not a really complicated setup. Motor, 2 gears, another two gears, and that's it.
Did you read the wiki FAQ?? I bet the issue is the clutch slipping on the gear... and if so, it was not your fault as I said on first time. Let's discuss after you confirm the issue.
Now finally had time to replace the blue gear. Should have done this the first time I opened the motor. But I had some surgery and couldn't to any bike work for the last months. And yes, the noise is gone. So this really was a dead-on-arrival blue gear clutch. What a shame. I still will keep the replaced one in case the tooth get stripped on the new one, and I still can replace the clutch.

Another thing that makes me worry: The supplied screws for the cranks are like butter. Normally those screws need to be screwed down pretty hard to prevent the cranks from wobbling. And I once had to add some more turn after a short ride and it stripped all threads from the screw. Now I'm afraid the inner thread my be damaged as well - any idea what to do?
Next thing will be heating the crank and then quickly pressing it on. Maybe that helps. What the recommended torque for that screw?
 
Hi I'm a long time lurker, seldom poster and was wondering if someone can help me.I have a 48V TSDZ2 and 17.5 AM Hailong style battery. This problem has persisted since the beginning and I have about ~2600 miles on my bike. This is more of a minor frustration because it really only affects me when I'm trying to get home from work and need the assist to be available right away. The issue I'm having is that if i charge my battery past full then it won't engage when I turn it on. I usually have to wait a few minutes to ten minutes on a curb pressing the pedal down until I feel it engages and then it is active for the rest of the ride. During these few minutes I can fill zero to very little assist so it is getting power. I call this or think of it as a "warm up" period for the bike, which doesn't make sense since it should just power on. If I charge my bike to just under full than the bike engages immediately and i don't have this "warm up" period. I've been able to reproduce this behavior consistently, and the not charging it all the was as well. Is this normal behavior and is there anything short of getting a new battery I can do? I've thought about getting one of those Christmas light times and putting it on a cycle but that is more of a work around.
 
Huguenot said:
Back to the loose and or wobbling crank axle problems, and thanks to safeaschuck for posting the detailed pics (way) above.
I have TSDZ2 on my wife's cargo bike, and other than some initialization problems seemingly fixed, if not totally eliminated, by a firmware upgrade (stellar customer service from EcoCycles, BTW) -she loves it. ....

So I would like to discuss some alternatives.

.....
This is a discussion I'd like to have as well. As I heard of broken axles, bad fits, loose bearings, and stuff like that I guess making a new axle would be the best way to do it. Using proper steel would help a lot. But I haven't opened the motor or removed the axle so I have no idea how hard it would be. Lathe and mill are ready and waiting :)
 
Hi there. Don't know if anyone can help. I've tried to read through alot of the comments but can't seem to find if it's the same exact issue im having. I have a tongsheng tsdz2 36v 250watt with xh18 display fitted to my cannondale SL5. Every was great had it on around 3 to 4 months. Just recently when the motor is on I get a creaking noise coming from the motor/bottom bracket area. It felt like it was the pedals loose however when I turn the motor off the creaking goes. Everything seems tight. Thanks in advance. Andy
 
izeman said:
Huguenot said:
Back to the loose and or wobbling crank axle problems, and thanks to safeaschuck for posting the detailed pics (way) above.
I have TSDZ2 on my wife's cargo bike, and other than some initialization problems seemingly fixed, if not totally eliminated, by a firmware upgrade (stellar customer service from EcoCycles, BTW) -she loves it. ....

So I would like to discuss some alternatives.

.....
This is a discussion I'd like to have as well. As I heard of broken axles, bad fits, loose bearings, and stuff like that I guess making a new axle would be the best way to do it. Using proper steel would help a lot. But I haven't opened the motor or removed the axle so I have no idea how hard it would be. Lathe and mill are ready and waiting :)

Hello izeman and others.
Regarding the broken shafts, I believe the steel used is less of a problem than the snap ring groves, and the fact that the crank mounting bolt holes are deeper than they need to be, at least on some of them. I am most concerned about the wobble/clunk and the wear it is causing on other parts, like the disc portion of the sensor. I was quite surprised at how soon this problem showed up on our bike, as some people report far more miles/km before looseness.
Given the design of the torque sensor there does not appear to be much that can be done from a redesign standpoint, but I am open to ideas.
The hardest thing to duplicate would be the splines, but they are short, few in number and stand proud of the shaft itself so should be less difficult than they might be. IMO, just controlling the seat diameters so the result is closer to a press fit would suffice for many people.
I just ordered a replacement axle from Eco Cycles ($25) to experiment with. Once I figure out just what parts of the shaft are hardened I may try building up the bearing seats somehow, likely with just solder, or perhaps by turning the shaft down a bit and pressing on a thin bushing, then turning down to correct diameter.
Again, the loose fit is probably done for assembly purposes as it saves the manufacturer exactly nothing to make it too small at the piece part level.
While the axle is no doubt made on CNC equipment, final assembly is no doubt done by hand.
 
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