New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

I have a frightening problem with my TSDZ2. As soon as I connect the battery, the controller starts smoking and sparking. It wasn't always this way. I opened up the motor to replace the blue gear with a brass one, but I had problems when I put it back together and tested it out.

First I noticed I wasn't getting any power, when I test rode it my display was reading anywhere from 0 to 20 watts of motor power. I took it apart and put it back together again to make sure I didn't mess anything up on reassembly. Everything looked fine overall. I have one issue where the blue phase wire connection on the motor is not super tight because the nut is stripped. It's still connected though, just not tight. I don't think this is the problem because the sparking and smoking is not coming from that connection. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I tried running the motor before putting the cover back on and noticed that when I would give the motor any power (using walk mode), the controller would spark and smoke. Now as soon as I connect the battery and turn it on I get sparking and smoking.

The only possibility I can think of is maybe I ruined a connection somewhere during dis/re-assembly. I definitely need a new controller now, but I wonder if I need anything else.

Anyone have any idea what may have happened and how I might be able to fix it?

Hi, quick question for Casainho. Does the newest version of the OSF software support the TSDZ2 "Coaster Brake" version? Planning to install on a coaster brake bike with nexus 5 speed IHub. Also, are there in nuances to the settings that optimize use of the OSF with coaster brake motor? Thanks for your feedback.

Big_Daddy said:

Hi, quick question for Casainho. Does the newest version of the OSF software support the TSDZ2 "Coaster Brake" version? Planning to install on a coaster brake bike with nexus 5 speed IHub. Also, are there in nuances to the settings that optimize use of the OSF with coaster brake motor? Thanks for your feedback.

Click to expand...

Never mind I found the answers in the Wiki. The settings are listed. Should have looked there first. Thanks for doing such a great job with this stuff. Can't wait to see your Garmin implementation.

Big_Daddy said:

Big_Daddy said:

Hi, quick question for Casainho. Does the newest version of the OSF software support the TSDZ2 "Coaster Brake" version? Planning to install on a coaster brake bike with nexus 5 speed IHub. Also, are there in nuances to the settings that optimize use of the OSF with coaster brake motor? Thanks for your feedback.

Click to expand...

Never mind I found the answers in the Wiki. The settings are listed. Should have looked there first. Thanks for doing such a great job with this stuff. Can't wait to see your Garmin implementation.

Click to expand...

do you mind posting the link here? can't make heads or tales of the wiki atm

doug-y-doug said:

I have a frightening problem with my TSDZ2. As soon as I connect the battery, the controller starts smoking and sparking. It wasn't always this way. I opened up the motor to replace the blue gear with a brass one, but I had problems when I put it back together and tested it out.

First I noticed I wasn't getting any power, when I test rode it my display was reading anywhere from 0 to 20 watts of motor power. I took it apart and put it back together again to make sure I didn't mess anything up on reassembly. Everything looked fine overall. I have one issue where the blue phase wire connection on the motor is not super tight because the nut is stripped. It's still connected though, just not tight. I don't think this is the problem because the sparking and smoking is not coming from that connection. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I tried running the motor before putting the cover back on and noticed that when I would give the motor any power (using walk mode), the controller would spark and smoke. Now as soon as I connect the battery and turn it on I get sparking and smoking.

The only possibility I can think of is maybe I ruined a connection somewhere during dis/re-assembly. I definitely need a new controller now, but I wonder if I need anything else.

Anyone have any idea what may have happened and how I might be able to fix it?

Click to expand...

Where is the sparking and smoking coming from on the controller. Can it be seen on a picture.

maiz said:

Big_Daddy said:

Big_Daddy said:

Hi, quick question for Casainho. Does the newest version of the OSF software support the TSDZ2 "Coaster Brake" version? Planning to install on a coaster brake bike with nexus 5 speed IHub. Also, are there in nuances to the settings that optimize use of the OSF with coaster brake motor? Thanks for your feedback.

Click to expand...

Never mind I found the answers in the Wiki. The settings are listed. Should have looked there first. Thanks for doing such a great job with this stuff. Can't wait to see your Garmin implementation.

Click to expand...

do you mind posting the link here? can't make heads or tales of the wiki atm

Click to expand...

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/Features-and-configurations-on-display

I've searched a few different ways but haven't been able to find any information on the size of the 3 little music wire springs. I've chewed up a few, and am looking to source locally. I don't really want to wait months for them to ship from china. Does anyone have the size information? It looks like the post on the coil are about 0.3in in diameter?

underdog3 said:

I've searched a few different ways but haven't been able to find any information on the size of the 3 little music wire springs. I've chewed up a few, and am looking to source locally. I don't really want to wait months for them to ship from china. Does anyone have the size information? It looks like the post on the coil are about 0.3in in diameter?

Click to expand...

I had noticed too to impossible find them. From China can get them when order torque sensor too.

I made some by cutting down a spring that was part of a electric moror carbon brush. Just find one that is really soft. I also hold them in place with grease when doing the assembly, so they don't fall out of the indendent

sysrq said:

doug-y-doug said:

I have a frightening problem with my TSDZ2. As soon as I connect the battery, the controller starts smoking and sparking. It wasn't always this way. I opened up the motor to replace the blue gear with a brass one, but I had problems when I put it back together and tested it out.

First I noticed I wasn't getting any power, when I test rode it my display was reading anywhere from 0 to 20 watts of motor power. I took it apart and put it back together again to make sure I didn't mess anything up on reassembly. Everything looked fine overall. I have one issue where the blue phase wire connection on the motor is not super tight because the nut is stripped. It's still connected though, just not tight. I don't think this is the problem because the sparking and smoking is not coming from that connection. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I tried running the motor before putting the cover back on and noticed that when I would give the motor any power (using walk mode), the controller would spark and smoke. Now as soon as I connect the battery and turn it on I get sparking and smoking.

The only possibility I can think of is maybe I ruined a connection somewhere during dis/re-assembly. I definitely need a new controller now, but I wonder if I need anything else.

Anyone have any idea what may have happened and how I might be able to fix it?

Click to expand...

Where is the sparking and smoking coming from on the controller. Can it be seen on a picture.

Click to expand...

I observed it with the cover off. The sparking and smoking appeared to be coming from the drive side, but I couldn’t really tell how high or low on the controller the origin was.

I ordered a new controller from Electrify, so I’ll pull the old one and post a pic some time next week.

I’m going to shorten the battery cables and use a Weatherpack connector instead of the connectors that came with the battery and motor.

Is there any reason not to add an inline fuse between The battery and motor? I was thinking about using one of these: https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/fuse-current-series-set-of-2

Hi all;

I have a strange problem - today I did the improved cooling mod described on the OSF wiki (adding thermal compound and pads). I also extended the motor phase wires by about 8cm (one of the screws joining the wires wouldn't hold in anymore, plus I wanted to be able to take out the inner motor without disconnecting it..).

After that, I found the motor / bike had some bad judder at low speed, almost like it was almost stalling. Went back, took it apart, and tried out just the inner motor on it's own. When run on throttle (50% or more), the speed is very variable, almost like it's partially stuck or seized or something - but doesn't seem to be (pulled it apart again and the rotor seems to be properly seated everywhere, and can spin freely). It takes about 100w and gets quite warm. Video (sound)...:

[youtube]4TOkmRqq1HI[/youtube]

Any idea what could be wrong? Would extending the phase wires cause a problem like this?

Edit:

Fixed.. Shortening the phase wires back didn't have any effect. Took everything apart again. This time I pressed the inner motor back together with a vice before putting the six screws although that didn't seem to make much of a difference. It still had the same jerky rotation when taken out and unloaded, but I put it in, packed a lot more grease in there (I have the metal gear and used generic red lithium grease), put everything back together, and the problem was gone (after riding a few hundred meters, although i did the same the first time..) With it really packed with grease it is quite quiet too - about the same as original plastic gear I think.

I also replaced the replaced the outer case screws, and the inner 4 screws holding the motor in with torx ones - seemingly all of the screws it comes with strip after a few times of disassembling..

doug-y-doug said:

I’m going to shorten the battery cables and use a Weatherpack connector instead of the connectors that came with the battery and motor.

Is there any reason not to add an inline fuse between The battery and motor? I was thinking about using one of these: https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/fuse-current-series-set-of-2

Click to expand...

I'd agree that that's probably a good idea - then you'll have two layers of protection in case of a short, mishap, or other problem - the battery BMS, and the fuse.

sysrq said:

doug-y-doug said:

I have a frightening problem with my TSDZ2. As soon as I connect the battery, the controller starts smoking and sparking. It wasn't always this way. I opened up the motor to replace the blue gear with a brass one, but I had problems when I put it back together and tested it out.

First I noticed I wasn't getting any power, when I test rode it my display was reading anywhere from 0 to 20 watts of motor power. I took it apart and put it back together again to make sure I didn't mess anything up on reassembly. Everything looked fine overall. I have one issue where the blue phase wire connection on the motor is not super tight because the nut is stripped. It's still connected though, just not tight. I don't think this is the problem because the sparking and smoking is not coming from that connection. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I tried running the motor before putting the cover back on and noticed that when I would give the motor any power (using walk mode), the controller would spark and smoke. Now as soon as I connect the battery and turn it on I get sparking and smoking.

The only possibility I can think of is maybe I ruined a connection somewhere during dis/re-assembly. I definitely need a new controller now, but I wonder if I need anything else.

Anyone have any idea what may have happened and how I might be able to fix it?

Click to expand...

Where is the sparking and smoking coming from on the controller. Can it be seen on a picture.

Click to expand...

Here’s a pic of the fried controller. It looks like it really is coming from the blue phase circuit. Can anyone confirm?

doug-y-doug said:

sysrq said:

doug-y-doug said:

I have a frightening problem with my TSDZ2. As soon as I connect the battery, the controller starts smoking and sparking. It wasn't always this way. I opened up the motor to replace the blue gear with a brass one, but I had problems when I put it back together and tested it out.

First I noticed I wasn't getting any power, when I test rode it my display was reading anywhere from 0 to 20 watts of motor power. I took it apart and put it back together again to make sure I didn't mess anything up on reassembly. Everything looked fine overall. I have one issue where the blue phase wire connection on the motor is not super tight because the nut is stripped. It's still connected though, just not tight. I don't think this is the problem because the sparking and smoking is not coming from that connection. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I tried running the motor before putting the cover back on and noticed that when I would give the motor any power (using walk mode), the controller would spark and smoke. Now as soon as I connect the battery and turn it on I get sparking and smoking.

The only possibility I can think of is maybe I ruined a connection somewhere during dis/re-assembly. I definitely need a new controller now, but I wonder if I need anything else.

Anyone have any idea what may have happened and how I might be able to fix it?

Click to expand...

Where is the sparking and smoking coming from on the controller. Can it be seen on a picture.

Click to expand...

Here’s a pic of the fried controller. It looks like it really is coming from the blue phase circuit. Can anyone confirm?

Click to expand...

"If it's not that, it could be loose connection, arcing between the contacts, or bad crimp from contact to wire. That can also cause melting of connector, wiring, etc., and the RF from the arc can destroy the controller."
Seems weird since controllers theoretically should have built in protection against things like these.

I have had a problem with TSDZ2 for months. At first he noticed that the power had decreased, he was pushing less and less. Later it began to happen that from time to time it would go off, especially after a while pedaling and more likely on a steep hill. To try to find the problem I have flashed the software compatible with the original VLCD5 screen, and installed the temperature sensor and now what happens is that due to heating it gradually decreases the intensity until it turns off, but it also does sometimes without the warning of temperature and also it is suddenly, without previous warning. I don't know what the problem is, it's like it disconnects and after a while it reconnects. I guess there are only 3 pieces that could be: the motor controller, the motor itself, and the battery controller. I have opened the engine and it looks like it doesn't look bad, like one that showed casainho overheated and demagnetized. Any ideas what it might be or how to go about finding what causes the problem? Or maybe I will have to buy pieces to discard the one that fails.

josafrik said:

I have had a problem with TSDZ2 for months. At first he noticed that the power had decreased, he was pushing less and less. Later it began to happen that from time to time it would go off, especially after a while pedaling and more likely on a steep hill. To try to find the problem I have flashed the software compatible with the original VLCD5 screen, and installed the temperature sensor and now what happens is that due to heating it gradually decreases the intensity until it turns off, but it also does sometimes without the warning of temperature and also it is suddenly, without previous warning. I don't know what the problem is, it's like it disconnects and after a while it reconnects. I guess there are only 3 pieces that could be: the motor controller, the motor itself, and the battery controller. I have opened the engine and it looks like it doesn't look bad, like one that showed casainho overheated and demagnetized. Any ideas what it might be or how to go about finding what causes the problem? Or maybe I will have to buy pieces to discard the one that fails.

Click to expand...

I think on a steep hill if a cadence is slightly too high or too low, or if the torque profile sensed by the torque sensor is a bit different then the assistance level is going to be reduced or intermittent for this mid drive. Not sure how it compares to the old Yamaha which is said to be similar. Mine 36V version only helps on long and shallow hills with grade up to 5%, or steep and short hills (22%, 20m), but not long and relatively steep hills (5-10%, 0.2-1km).
Or it could be just a weak battery. Mine is plain Chinese CYCBT 10.5Ah with few reviews such as "better than expected".

Although it may seem that way, alas its not quite so, often I find that it feels like the motor is not putting in much power until with the OSF software you can display the motor power in Watts, very often with what feels like minimum motor input on long climbs you have already reached the max motor input of the level you have.

I could only recommend if you haven't already done so, go over to the OSF firmware where you can work out things with proper read outs of actually what the motor is giving at what cadence.

The other good thing of the OSF is that you have other modes of sensor input, which may suit your riding style better.

Waynemarlow said:

Although it may seem that way, alas its not quite so, often I find that it feels like the motor is not putting in much power until with the OSF software you can display the motor power in Watts, very often with what feels like minimum motor input on long climbs you have already reached the max motor input of the level you have.

Click to expand...

The TSDZ2 must be a relatively weak and heavy mid drive unit then.
Using OSF would be good but hard to justify the effort due to need for bigger more obstructive display and more distractions to fallow (power consumption, etc.) Speed and satnav seems to be enough as it is.

sysrq said:

Waynemarlow said:

Although it may seem that way, alas its not quite so, often I find that it feels like the motor is not putting in much power until with the OSF software you can display the motor power in Watts, very often with what feels like minimum motor input on long climbs you have already reached the max motor input of the level you have.

Click to expand...

The TSDZ2 must be a relatively weak and heavy mid drive unit then.
Using OSF would be good but hard to justify the effort due to need for bigger more obstructive display and more distractions to fallow (power consumption, etc.) Speed and satnav seems to be enough as it is.

Click to expand...

Why so, its light weight compared to most, its quite robust considering the kicking we are giving it, it can handle 500 - 600 W pretty comfortably, its relatively cheap in comparison to virtually every other mid drive, its parts are widely available, the OSF uses the standard displays even the very small XH18 hand grip display, isn't it time you either really got down and really understood how the motor operates and if you feel that's too difficult and not worth the time, then there's really only one route left for you, buy a Specialized or Scott and get full dealer support.

Waynemarlow said:

sysrq said:

Waynemarlow said:

Although it may seem that way, alas its not quite so, often I find that it feels like the motor is not putting in much power until with the OSF software you can display the motor power in Watts, very often with what feels like minimum motor input on long climbs you have already reached the max motor input of the level you have.

Click to expand...

The TSDZ2 must be a relatively weak and heavy mid drive unit then.
Using OSF would be good but hard to justify the effort due to need for bigger more obstructive display and more distractions to fallow (power consumption, etc.) Speed and satnav seems to be enough as it is.

Click to expand...

Why so, its light weight compared to most, its quite robust considering the kicking we are giving it, it can handle 500 - 600 W pretty comfortably, its relatively cheap in comparison to virtually every other mid drive, its parts are widely available, the OSF uses the standard displays even the very small XH18 hand grip display, isn't it time you either really got down and really understood how the motor operates and if you feel that's too difficult and not worth the time, then there's really only one route left for you, buy a Specialized or Scott and get full dealer support.

Click to expand...

I haven't tried enough ebikes to know if this one just merely compensates for it's own weight or not. Probably 36V version is more likely to be sufficient for local urban commuting. Should have gone for 48V version for tackling the hills which are the main cause for reduction of average speed when touring.

sysrq said:

I haven't tried enough ebikes to know if this one just merely compensates for it's own weight or not. Probably 36V version is more likely to be sufficient for local urban commuting. Should have gone for 48V version for tackling the hills which are the main cause for reduction of average speed when touring.

Click to expand...

I'm going to assume you are not trolling.

Motor and battery = 10kg
Continuous power output 300-400W (thermal limitation)

Adult human = 50-150kg
Continuous power output 100-250W (except elite athlete)

Power to weight of motor and battery is a magnitude more than most people are capable of.

I had not indicated it, my motor and battery are 48 V, and the software I downloaded is for the original screen, maybe I should buy a new screen to be able to see the data on the screen while pedaling and draw better conclusions

josafrik said:

..... to be able to see the data on the screen.....

Click to expand...

Also with OSF v20 for default screen it is possible to see data on the screen. You don't need a new screen for that.
Only if you want the latest release and options of OSF you need to go to a 860C screen.

Here's the fields of data you can display.