New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

casainho said:
famichiki said:
Has anyone here attached a temperature sensor using JB Weld? Did you simply glue the surfaces using that, or encase the whole sensor in it? Or for anyone else, have you found an adhesive that doesn't involve encasing the entire sensor?
Last time I used a plastic zip tie, like others shared before. I still use the heat transfer adhesive to connect the sensor to the motor surface and then input the zip tie around the motor that also keep the sensor in place. I need to put this information in the wiki.

How did the zip tie hold up? Would you or anyone else please be able to share a photo if you have one? I can only see the silicone blob method in the wiki still. Is there any particular brand of thermal adhesive recommended?
 
jeff.page.rides said:
BMboomer said:
Hi from Australia, haven't posted for a long time, but still into electric bikes, & my original cheap eBay direct drive hub bike has been improved over the years, & is still going strong.
Now for my latest project. I ordered a TSDZ2 kit, months ago just before the Covid 19 restrictions kicked in. & I still haven't got it. I thought things might get difficult, so I ordered it from Amazon AU, from a company called Greenergy-AU. It costed more than ordering from China, but I was thinking that I would be ordering from Australian stock.
Not so. It's coming from China anyway
Tracking tells me that it's still stuck at " Depart from overseas processing facility", & has been for a month now.
Anyway the delay has given me plenty of time to select a candidate bike for the TSDZ2 if & when it arrives. So I bought a great bike on Gumtree, that would be very suitable, & it was only $125. It's a Raceline Comp. Not very well known, but Raceline was the high end of Apollo, who are a very reputable bike brand in Australia. This bike is very well equipped. With decent Manitou forks, Hayes hydraulic disc brakes. Mavic rims on Shimano hubs. 9 speed cassette with Deore XTR derailleur. Deore shifters, all in a nice big light alloy hardtail frame with a standard 68mm BSA BB.
All set, but still waiting for the motor, & then I see on Gumtree an almost new condition, 2008 Giant Trance X0 frame, with 5" of Fox Float air suspension. More than twice the price of the Raceline, but it really is a thing of beauty. So I bought it thinking I might cannabalise all the good bits from the Raceline, put them on the Giant frame, & have a nice full suspension bike for the motor when it comes.
I know I would have more difficulties installing the motor in the FS frame, but at least it is a 68mm BSA BB.
What is the community opinion.
Is the extra difficulty of fitting worth the extra comfort of the FS frame, considering that I'm an older bloke, & probably won't be going more off road than gravel walking paths. Or should I stick to the Raceline, which is pretty much an ideal install.

Every full suspension bike is diffrent to install the TSDZ2 on. So try it on the full suspension bike first and if it's simple give it a try. If it is going to take a lot of work or will not work you can move it to the hardtail.
The motor finally arrived, & it wasn't going to go in the Giant Trance frame as the bottom floating suspension pivot was right in the way, so I fitted it into the Raceline hardtail which almost seemed like it was made for it.
I found the motor was a bit underwhelming at first, as I'm used to riding in the lowest level on my direct drive bike, but it wasn't too bad in the third level. It was super economical though giving me 140km on the first charge of the new 36v 17.4 ah Samsung 29e battery run down to 30v. That was including climbing over Buderim with it's 10% hills, twice.
After that economy & performance testing, & with my watt meter still in series, I thought I'd give the Open Source Firmware adapted to Vlcd5 that has been put together by some of the amazingly talented people that post here. I had already got the ST link V2, & it all went pretty easily.
I tried it at 36v using mostly the default settings in the Java Configurator, & was immediately blown away. Not only by the extra performance, lowest level almost felt like 3rd level did, & going up from there as the levels go up. But the whole thing felt much smoother & quieter.
Then I seriesed up 3 more parallel sets with my 10s to make a 13s, & tried it at 48v. That didn't seem to make much difference, to it's performance. Just doing it at a few less amps. The way that I will be using it, I won't be over stressing it anyway, so I am quite happy to stick with 36v. I'm quite commited to 36v. All my other e-bikes are 36v, & 10s is a nice round number.
I'm feeling like this is an awesome bike now. It's making my old legs feel 50yrs younger, & getting me up hills that have me walking if I'm on a road bike, or working a bit harder than I want to on most other e-bikes I've tried.
Now I've fully charged the battery to see if the extra performance comes at a cost to economy. So far it's looking good. I've done 45km, my Vlcd5 is telling me I've got 88.9% left, & I've still got 5 out of 6 bars on the gauge.
I'm thinking about my next project now (love retirement). Probably a stealthy road bike, with an AKM 128 CST. I want to use 36v but that motor seems to be only sold rated at 48v these days. I remember people using it at 36v & getting good torque. Anybody know if they're different windings these days?
 
drpop said:
ilu said:
check the aligment of the speed sensor and magnet. Note that the sensor is not at the round part of the plastic housing but in the more narrow sector showing a tiny arrow. The magnet should pass this within few millimeters.

I've had at from 2mm away all the way up to around 25mm and still no luck...i'll keep trying. knowing that the 'error codes' are actually usefull features is great though!

---

My heat sensor arrived this morning and i hope to install this evening. I have the 8 pin 'with throttle' and i understand that i can cut-and-splice into the throttle wire. Am I safe to do this with the 5V as well? What about the Ground? should i just t-splice into the cables like in the wiki? Am i safe to cut the ground to the lcd?

Thx.

Might sound a little Bassackwards but try turning the magnet around opposite to the direction you now have it. I have two TSDZ2 one with the shiny side facing the sensor and the other with the flat screw side facing the sensor. Neither will work if I turn them opposite! Don’t know if somehow polarity got reversed on the latter but I have over 1000 miles and it only works turned the other direction. A couple of times it accidentally got turned when cleaning and servicing and once it wasn’t very tight and rotated when I slammed on the brakes. Both times a few minutes of stress and checking the controller before remembering aha turn the little dinky around! So far has worked every time.
 
Hello,
I'm interested in the TSDZ2 open source project. I have 2 questions:
1: I would like to know if it is possible to use it with a joystick that allows me to manually control the power sent to the engine, and thus to be able to move forward without pedalling. Like this : https://youtu.be/qoUueZvMIdg?t=559

2: Is there or do you know of a brake energy recovery system? like this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy_recovery_system

Thanks everyone
 
bikobike said:
I would like to know if it is possible to use it with a joystick that allows me to manually control the power sent to the engine, and thus to be able to move forward without pedalling. Like this : https://youtu.be/qoUueZvMIdg?t=559

If you dont want pedal torque sensing, there are much more reliable systems out there. Bafang BBS02 is proven as a far more mechanically sound system with better support for both programming and spare parts. The only thing TSDZ2 has going for it is pedal torque sensing at a relatively low cost. I personally don't think that’s enough to offset its mechanical design flaws.
 
Big_Daddy said:
Might sound a little Bassackwards but try turning the magnet around opposite to the direction you now have it....

Bingo! That did it!

The sensor is soldered in and is also working, just waiting for a tool to remove a sheared bolt and I can silicone it all back up.

I've seen some chat about tie wrapping the sensor to the motor... so I'm going to do some digging for that. Hopefully, be back out on the bike by Thur's fingers crossed.

Thx again for the advice folks.
 
I have some play in the spider, is this normal?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/HEyyALhhQhxjd8c87

All the bolts are tight and there is no play in the main axle, only on the chainring and spider.
 
BMboomer said:
jeff.page.rides said:
BMboomer said:
Hi from Australia, haven't posted for a long time, but still into electric bikes, & my original cheap eBay direct drive hub bike has been improved over the years, & is still going strong.
Now for my latest project. I ordered a TSDZ2 kit, months ago just before the Covid 19 restrictions kicked in. & I still haven't got it. I thought things might get difficult, so I ordered it from Amazon AU, from a company called Greenergy-AU. It costed more than ordering from China, but I was thinking that I would be ordering from Australian stock.
Not so. It's coming from China anyway
Tracking tells me that it's still stuck at " Depart from overseas processing facility", & has been for a month now.
Anyway the delay has given me plenty of time to select a candidate bike for the TSDZ2 if & when it arrives. So I bought a great bike on Gumtree, that would be very suitable, & it was only $125. It's a Raceline Comp. Not very well known, but Raceline was the high end of Apollo, who are a very reputable bike brand in Australia. This bike is very well equipped. With decent Manitou forks, Hayes hydraulic disc brakes. Mavic rims on Shimano hubs. 9 speed cassette with Deore XTR derailleur. Deore shifters, all in a nice big light alloy hardtail frame with a standard 68mm BSA BB.
All set, but still waiting for the motor, & then I see on Gumtree an almost new condition, 2008 Giant Trance X0 frame, with 5" of Fox Float air suspension. More than twice the price of the Raceline, but it really is a thing of beauty. So I bought it thinking I might cannabalise all the good bits from the Raceline, put them on the Giant frame, & have a nice full suspension bike for the motor when it comes.
I know I would have more difficulties installing the motor in the FS frame, but at least it is a 68mm BSA BB.
What is the community opinion.
Is the extra difficulty of fitting worth the extra comfort of the FS frame, considering that I'm an older bloke, & probably won't be going more off road than gravel walking paths. Or should I stick to the Raceline, which is pretty much an ideal install.

Every full suspension bike is diffrent to install the TSDZ2 on. So try it on the full suspension bike first and if it's simple give it a try. If it is going to take a lot of work or will not work you can move it to the hardtail.
The motor finally arrived, & it wasn't going to go in the Giant Trance frame as the bottom floating suspension pivot was right in the way, so I fitted it into the Raceline hardtail which almost seemed like it was made for it.
I found the motor was a bit underwhelming at first, as I'm used to riding in the lowest level on my direct drive bike, but it wasn't too bad in the third level. It was super economical though giving me 140km on the first charge of the new 36v 17.4 ah Samsung 29e battery run down to 30v. That was including climbing over Buderim with it's 10% hills, twice.
After that economy & performance testing, & with my watt meter still in series, I thought I'd give the Open Source Firmware adapted to Vlcd5 that has been put together by some of the amazingly talented people that post here. I had already got the ST link V2, & it all went pretty easily.
I tried it at 36v using mostly the default settings in the Java Configurator, & was immediately blown away. Not only by the extra performance, lowest level almost felt like 3rd level did, & going up from there as the levels go up. But the whole thing felt much smoother & quieter.
Then I seriesed up 3 more parallel sets with my 10s to make a 13s, & tried it at 48v. That didn't seem to make much difference, to it's performance. Just doing it at a few less amps. The way that I will be using it, I won't be over stressing it anyway, so I am quite happy to stick with 36v. I'm quite commited to 36v. All my other e-bikes are 36v, & 10s is a nice round number.
I'm feeling like this is an awesome bike now. It's making my old legs feel 50yrs younger, & getting me up hills that have me walking if I'm on a road bike, or working a bit harder than I want to on most other e-bikes I've tried.
Now I've fully charged the battery to see if the extra performance comes at a cost to economy. So far it's looking good. I've done 45km, my Vlcd5 is telling me I've got 88.9% left, & I've still got 5 out of 6 bars on the gauge.
I'm thinking about my next project now (love retirement). Probably a stealthy road bike, with an AKM 128 CST. I want to use 36v but that motor seems to be only sold rated at 48v these days. I remember people using it at 36v & getting good torque. Anybody know if they're different windings these days?

Is your first motor 36 Volt or a 48 Volt power assist? You can buy a 36Volt coaster brake power assist and use it on any bike that you don't want a throttle even though you don't have a coaster brake. That's what I've done on my wife's bike and it works awesome.
https://www.electrifybike.com/ has them install.
 
Hi Jeff
I've got 4 e-bikes in my stable at the moment, all 36v. I have my original eBay 500w direct drive. A 250w legal step through, off the shelf Nomad ( local brand now out of business) I got that one for my wife for 1/2 price when they were selling off their stock. That's a rear XOFO geared hub. I've got a Cell urban Classic which I couldn't resist when they were getting sold through Aldi. It was on sale at $900Au. That's got a legal Entity system on it, with a nice torquey rear geared cassette hub motor, branded Entity, but has LNX 36v 250w 128 stamped on it. Very nice bike that. Very comfortable & quiet, but it hits a brick wall at 25 kph. Also has a very nice coloured Bluetooth display with a phone app, & USB.
Now I've got the Raceline MTB with the 36v TSDZ2. Which is great. I want to get a SW102 display for that one.
I want to do a Shwinn road bike next, & am thinking of an AKM 128-CST, hoping that it will be like the Entity motor, but without the 25 km limit. I can find it on Topbikekit, but they only seem to do the 48v version.
I wanted to buy from them, because they do the same Hailong battery case as I have on the Raceline, with the 5 round pin discharge connection, & I can bundle it with the motor & save some shipping. They also do a 22amp KT controller that will fit in that case & will keep things neat. If I get the 48v motor & run it at 36v, I'm afraid that I will loose 25% of it's speed & power. If I got a 48v faster wind one, I might loose out on torque at 36v, specially if I go over to 48v sometime in the future.
 
Hi Guys
Apologies if this is not the right place for this type of help, but here goes.
I got my 860 display and TSDZ2 flashed and installed on my bike, but there are some issues.....
1. It takes 50 seconds to boot up
2. The screen shows " error brakes" on the black and white intro screen. There are no brake sensors fitted.
3. At this point, the only way ahead is via the configuration screen.
4. The configuration menus seem to work fine and I can then go to the main screen
5. There is only one main screen
6. I can change the indicated assist levels, but that is about it on the main screen.
7. On cycling, there is no electrical assist power to the wheels, no speed is shown and no power is indicated.
8. In ' technical' everything remains at 0 while cycling.
9. The battery shows full but reads 0.0v

I have changed some default settings for the wheel, battery and motor, but just basic ones. The flashing seemed to be successful at the time. Has anybody got any ideas of what to try next?

There are some great people on this forum freely offering time and knowledge, so a big thanks in advance. Also a big thanks for all the development from casainho and his willing team. Well done guys
 
Jaybee258 said:
Hi Guys
Apologies if this is not the right place for this type of help, but here goes.
I got my 860 display and TSDZ2 flashed and installed on my bike, but there are some issues.....
1. It takes 50 seconds to boot up
2. The screen shows " error brakes" on the black and white intro screen. There are no brake sensors fitted.
3. At this point, the only way ahead is via the configuration screen.
4. The configuration menus seem to work fine and I can then go to the main screen
5. There is only one main screen
6. I can change the indicated assist levels, but that is about it on the main screen.
7. On cycling, there is no electrical assist power to the wheels, no speed is shown and no power is indicated.
8. In ' technical' everything remains at 0 while cycling.
9. The battery shows full but reads 0.0v

I have changed some default settings for the wheel, battery and motor, but just basic ones. The flashing seemed to be successful at the time. Has anybody got any ideas of what to try next?

There are some great people on this forum freely offering time and knowledge, so a big thanks in advance. Also a big thanks for all the development from casainho and his willing team. Well done guys
TSDZ2 motor is not initializing, hence the error "error brakes" because could be the brakes active also. Make sure you did flash the firmware on TSDZ2 and the UART tx and rx connections are ok.
 
Thank you casainho for the quick response. You are a star. Lots of good things to check out there. I will let you know what worked hopefully in a couple of weeks
 
My motor has significant resistance when pedalling with the motor switched off and takes a lot of effort to maintain speed. If I want to try to fix it, where should I direct my attention?
 
famichiki said:
My motor has significant resistance when pedalling with the motor switched off and takes a lot of effort to maintain speed. If I want to try to fix it, where should I direct my attention?

Clean and grease the main gear and the small gear driving it. The small gear is connected to the blue gear and maybe there's a problem with the one-way clutch in the blue gear? If that's not working, you're moving the whole gear chain and the motor when pedalling and it would create a lot of resistance.
 
ilu said:
famichiki said:
My motor has significant resistance when pedalling with the motor switched off and takes a lot of effort to maintain speed. If I want to try to fix it, where should I direct my attention?

Clean and grease the main gear and the small gear driving it. The small gear is connected to the blue gear and maybe there's a problem with the one-way clutch in the blue gear? If that's not working, you're moving the whole gear chain and the motor when pedalling and it would create a lot of resistance.

I think the resistance in my case is more than significant. I thought that was normal
 
ilu said:
Clean and grease the main gear and the small gear driving it. The small gear is connected to the blue gear and maybe there's a problem with the one-way clutch in the blue gear? If that's not working, you're moving the whole gear chain and the motor when pedalling and it would create a lot of resistance.

Thanks for the tip. From what I've read, the drag varies between units and some are quite easy to pedal with the power off.

I've just watched jbalat's blue gear replacement video and it looks like that clutch in the blue gear could be it. I wonder if it's possible to hook up a multimeter to the power input connectors and see if anything is generated while spinning the cranks.

Before I pull it all apart though, does anyone know what size these screws are? I'd like to replace them with countersunk hex heads at the same time.

motor-screws.jpg
 
I am trying to make a tsdz2 programming cable with a speed sensor extension cable, but the wire colors do not correspond to the wiki.
I have the following colors in the cable:
Yellow, orange,red,brown,black and green.

The is no purple or White as discussed in the wiki.
Have the extension cables changed their color scheme?
 
Hello!
Newbie here.

Eco-bikes have a great step-by-step on programming the 850C: https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/850c-tsdz2-open-source-firmware-bootloader-update-tutorial

My question is... can I use the same tutorial to program the 860C? Are there any differences I need to be aware of?
 
I'm running 36V TSDZ2 with VLCD5 OSF and 48V battery. In the past two and a half months I biked over 2000km. So far so good.

I just received spare blue gear just in case I need to replace it soon. One odd thing I noticed is that when pedalling quickly uphill it seems like motor "slips" (can't really explain it) and won't help until I stop pedalling for a second and then everything is back to normal again. It happens every now and then but not too often... Could this be the sign that blue gear is wearing down?

Also, as per someone's suggestion here a couple of months ago, I've ordered these two lights from Aliexpress. They should support 4-85V. I think I've soldered the wires properly (was my first time) and put the shrink wrap on. I flashed the motor with the lights setting on. Everything worked great once I connected it - the lights were very bright and I was extremely happy!
However, when I was adjusting them on my handlebar they suddenly turned off. Then I noticed a very odd thing - one (or sometimes both) light are on (but very very weak) when the system is off. When the system is on then lights are off. If I turn on the lights (the screen lights up) then both lights turn off. If I turn off the lights (the screen lights off) then both lights are on but very very weak - barely visible at night and seems like they're lightly pulsing... Any idea what the hell is happening here and why? How can I fix it?
 
Andrew707 said:
I'm running 36V TSDZ2 with VLCD5 OSF and 48V battery. In the past two and a half months I biked over 2000km. So far so good.

I just received spare blue gear just in case I need to replace it soon. One odd thing I noticed is that when pedalling quickly uphill it seems like motor "slips" (can't really explain it) and won't help until I stop pedalling for a second and then everything is back to normal again. It happens every now and then but not too often... Could this be the sign that blue gear is wearing down?

Also, as per someone's suggestion here a couple of months ago, I've ordered these two lights from Aliexpress. They should support 4-85V. I think I've soldered the wires properly (was my first time) and put the shrink wrap on. I flashed the motor with the lights setting on. Everything worked great once I connected it - the lights were very bright and I was extremely happy!
However, when I was adjusting them on my handlebar they suddenly turned off. Then I noticed a very odd thing - one (or sometimes both) light are on (but very very weak) when the system is off. When the system is on then lights are off. If I turn on the lights (the screen lights up) then both lights turn off. If I turn off the lights (the screen lights off) then both lights are on but very very weak - barely visible at night and seems like they're lightly pulsing... Any idea what the hell is happening here and why? How can I fix it?

Same here, it only helps when trying to accelerate, then the current decreases from 14A to 5A when climbing on 42t:32t-28t@17-18km/h and 3% or 4% grade. Haven't tried to measure anything on bigger hills yet though.
 
famichiki said:
ilu said:
Clean and grease the main gear and the small gear driving it. The small gear is connected to the blue gear and maybe there's a problem with the one-way clutch in the blue gear? If that's not working, you're moving the whole gear chain and the motor when pedalling and it would create a lot of resistance.

Thanks for the tip. From what I've read, the drag varies between units and some are quite easy to pedal with the power off.

I've just watched jbalat's blue gear replacement video and it looks like that clutch in the blue gear could be it. I wonder if it's possible to hook up a multimeter to the power input connectors and see if anything is generated while spinning the cranks.

Before I pull it all apart though, does anyone know what size these screws are? I'd like to replace them with countersunk hex heads at the same time.

motor-screws.jpg

The screws are M4 * 12. I replaced them with Torx ones from Aliexpress - the heads were a bit too wide (meaning I could not get the cover on), so I spun the screws in a drill, holding the edge of the screwhead against a piece of sandpaper to get them down to the correct size. The head diameter of the original ones is 6.7mm.

I also replaced the hex screws holding the cover on, since those stripped for me too. They are M4 * 14.

I don't think you'd get any voltage on the battery connectors when spinning the motor due to the mosfets and electronics inside. It should not have a noticable amount of drag, certainly not so much to make it hard to keep up speed.
 
Andrew707 said:
[...]
Also, as per someone's suggestion here a couple of months ago, I've ordered these two lights from Aliexpress. They should support 4-85V. I think I've soldered the wires properly (was my first time) and put the shrink wrap on. I flashed the motor with the lights setting on. Everything worked great once I connected it - the lights were very bright and I was extremely happy!
However, when I was adjusting them on my handlebar they suddenly turned off. Then I noticed a very odd thing - one (or sometimes both) light are on (but very very weak) when the system is off. When the system is on then lights are off. If I turn on the lights (the screen lights up) then both lights turn off. If I turn off the lights (the screen lights off) then both lights are on but very very weak - barely visible at night and seems like they're lightly pulsing... Any idea what the hell is happening here and why? How can I fix it?

IIRC the lights output of the motor is only good for about 5 watts, and those lights look like they are more than that, especially with two of them. Have you tested the lights with another power supply, and have you checked weather you get 6v on the lights output (without the lights)?

If the lights are fine, and the lights output of the motor is fine, you may need a to use a relay and power the lights directly from the battery.
 
It sounds like either a wire has broken inside the insulation or at teh back of a contact, or something is partially unplugged, or more likely the light-control FET in the display/system has failed from overloading.

If that's the case, then you would need to either replace the unit that has the light-control FET, or the FET itself (if possible).


Either way, you'll want to then use relay to actually switch battery power to the lights, and use the light-control FET to control the relay instead.
 
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