New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

E-bike lover said:
1.Are the windings diferent between 36v and 48v motor?

Yes; they are different between 36 & 48v versions. The different wattage options are all the same hardware though, it's only limited in software with the stock firmware.

E-bike lover said:
2.How does 48v battery works on 36v motor? Will the power exceed 250W? I have seen that if a 48v battery being used on a 36v motor, u could have more speed. Is it 30% more? If i use a 48v battery on 48v motor, the speed will get lower but more torque. What is the maximum speed?

The stock firmware will refuse to work with wrong battery voltage.

On the OSF firmware, the maximum power can be limited to whatever value (watts) you want, irrespective of what motor & battery voltage combo you have installed.

With a 36v motor and 48v battery, you can have higher cadence at the cranks, which does not necessarily mean higher speed (at the wheel). With the "correct" combination of motor and battery, it stops assisting well at around 75 - 80 rpm at the cranks. If you want to pedal faster than that, then the 36v motor, 48v battery combo is useful - with that you can pedal at up to 120rpm if you want.

Again, this is referring to speed at the cranks (cadence) - with 48v motor and 48v battery, you will get "normal" cadence, and "normal" torque at the cranks. With 36v and 48v, you will get a motor that can go to higher cadence, and less torque at the cranks, so you have to pedal faster to get the same amount of power in the end (higher speed / cadence but less torque = same amount of power). Some people want to pedal faster, hence getting this combo. How this affects the final speed at the wheel depends on the gearing of your bike.

However, now the OSF has a kind of "overdrive" mode giving you assistance up to 120rpm even on "correct" motor and voltage combos, IIRC it's a bit inefficient in that high cadence rrange.

E-bike lover said:
3.Can i speed up my bike(over 25km/h) while my battery is 48v but the maxium support power in motor is only 250W?

In the OSF firmware, you can set speed and power limits to whatever you want, independently. So you could set unlimited speed and 250w if you wanted. Although with 250w I don't think you will go much faster than 25 - 30kph anyway, no matter what your motor and battery voltage combo is (maybe there are differences in gearing and efficiency, but I think 250w is 250w, and should give you about the same speed in the end)

E-bike lover said:
4.There is a bluetooth function on SW102. Is it able to update the firmware via app or website? Or is it still developing?
I know a bit programming in website.
Link from github doesn't mention:https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki

You can update the firmware of the sw102 itself via bluetooth and app (that's the only way to do it), however the motor itself still has to be updated via computer (with stlink), and since they both have to have the same version you cannot update everything over just buetooth, so you still need computer. It's theoretically possible if someone implements it, I think.
 
I fixed the wobble in the spider/big gear with a 0.3mm thick 30mm ID x 42mm OD shim, which I bought from here:
https://www.smallparts.com.au/store/partslist/washersflatcarbonspringsteelprecisionshim/?v=1152

I'll shim the non-drive side of the axle next after some new bearings arrive. I tested with the factory bearing and that needed a 1.0mm shim, or perhaps 1.05. I don't have any shims in a 0.05mm increment, so I used 0.8mm of shims plus the 0.2mm factory spring washer which worked well and allowed all the circlips to seat properly. The shims I'm using are 15mm ID x 22mm OD.

But when I removed the axle I noticed a silver paste where the axle splines mate with the torque sensor, is that anti-seize? I have nickel anti-seize here and it's an identical consistency. It looks like it's getting into the roller bearing so I wonder if I should remove and regrease that. Should the end of the torque sensor be flush with the outside of the roller bearing? In the the below photo you can see there is a gap.

I just noticed that this bearing is HK2214, whereas HK2212 was used in the older models. Could the newer bearing being 2mm wider be the reason I am seeing this gap?

non-drive-side.jpg
measurement3.jpg
shim-fitted1.jpg
shim-fitted2.JPG
 
Be careful with all your shimming that you don't pull the torque sensor on the crank too close to the sensor on the controller by moving the crank too far towards the non drive side.
 
I am not understanding the graph display on my 860c (version 1.0 & OSF 1.0) . The temperature sensor is installed and has been tested to be accurate. What do the large numbers at the top and bottom of the scale represent? They do not seem to have a relationship to the actual temperature value.

Below are images from the Units being set to Imperial or SI.

Thanks

SI
cel-2.jpg

Imperial
far2.jpg
 
btslo said:
I have some play in the spider, is this normal?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/HEyyALhhQhxjd8c87

All the bolts are tight and there is no play in the main axle, only on the chainring and spider.

No, thats not normal.
You have to replace the one way main bearing.
 
Waynemarlow said:
Be careful with all your shimming that you don't pull the torque sensor on the crank too close to the sensor on the controller by moving the crank too far towards the non drive side.

Thanks for the tip, could you show me a photo or tell me a bit more about this please? Do you mean the two rings rubbing together? I don't think I'm moving things around but instead just firming them up, the axle can't move any further than the drive side circlip originally held it anyway. If I was shimming the axle on the drive side instead I imagine this could cause issues.

torque-sensor.jpg
 
fireflyer451 said:
The temperature sensor is installed and has been tested to be accurate.
It is like what it seems - the system is reading incorrect value for the temperature sensor - you need to check again the sensor and the wiring to the motor controller.
 
casainho said:
fireflyer451 said:
The temperature sensor is installed and has been tested to be accurate.
It is like what it seems - the system is reading incorrect value for the temperature sensor - you need to check again the sensor and the wiring to the motor controller.

But the current temperature in the lower picture is 127, while the graph high is 264 and the low is 174... So the low point on the graph is higher than the current temperature. This seems to be a problem with the graph high/low... Why do you say the temp sensor wiring is wrong?

I know that there is still an issue with metric/imperial. If you set the value in Imperial unit mode, it will scramble. I have a feeling that the high/low on the graph is having a similar issue. I don't think it's a temp sensor issue but a metric/imperial issue with the firmware.

If not, could you explain why you suspect wiring?
 
eyebyesickle said:
casainho said:
fireflyer451 said:
The temperature sensor is installed and has been tested to be accurate.
It is like what it seems - the system is reading incorrect value for the temperature sensor - you need to check again the sensor and the wiring to the motor controller.

But the current temperature in the lower picture is 127, while the graph high is 264 and the low is 174... So the low point on the graph is higher than the current temperature.
Didn't you ever see that values on the graph are an average and take some time to reflect changes?
 
casainho said:
eyebyesickle said:
casainho said:
fireflyer451 said:
The temperature sensor is installed and has been tested to be accurate.
It is like what it seems - the system is reading incorrect value for the temperature sensor - you need to check again the sensor and the wiring to the motor controller.

But the current temperature in the lower picture is 127, while the graph high is 264 and the low is 174... So the low point on the graph is higher than the current temperature.
Didn't you ever see that values on the graph are an average and take some time to reflect changes?

Sure but at first the reading is in metric, current temp 51, low on chart 51. Then switched to imperial, current temp 127, low 174... That in of itself shows a scrambled conversion does it not? I know from playing with imperial and metric that the number scrambles... I also happen to know that this users temp sensor is wired correctly and was reading accurately...
 
Also regarding the specific temperature reading on the 860c (Circled in the image), after the cooling modification, this value and the external motor case temperature (measured with an infrared thermometer) is now within 3 degrees fahrenheit of each other. I have been carrying that meter and measure it several times during a ride. So to me, only the graph seems inaccurate.
far2.jpg
 
eyebyesickle said:
I also happen to know that this users temp sensor is wired correctly and was reading accurately...
Temperature sensor value on display, at least in degrees Celsius and up to max recommended range, is working well and well tested by now.
 
Some grey seal fell out of the motor today... it looks like it comes from behind the spider. Any idea what it is? Should I replace it?

Pictures: https://imgur.com/a/8l0T7xG
 
skestans said:
Some grey seal fell out of the motor today... it looks like it comes from behind the spider. Any idea what it is? Should I replace it?

Pictures: https://imgur.com/a/8l0T7xG

Have a look at my recent posts starting from here, do you think it's the same seal? It has a V groove on 3 sides and the outer side is flat. There are a few posts after this discussion potential replacements.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&start=7475#p1573083
 
When adding a second bearing to the newer axle, how are people retaining it since there's no outer groove for a circlip? I don't want it freely moving around, causing wear and and popping the seal out. It doesn't look like there's enough room to add a collar to the axle too.

TSDZ2_different_versions_axles_comparition.jpg
 
skestans said:
Some grey seal fell out of the motor today... ..
Couldn't be that the same stuff (anti seize?) that is noticed here?

famichiki said:
When adding a second bearing to the newer axle, how are people retaining it since there's no outer groove for a circlip? .....
No circlip there, just remove the seal and insert the bearing against the circlip and insert the seal again.
http://www.jobike.it/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=76426&whichpage=39#1311209
Here and there is used some loctite between inner and axle
 
Elinx said:
skestans said:
Some grey seal fell out of the motor today... ..
Couldn't be that the same stuff (anti seize?) that is noticed here?

famichiki said:
When adding a second bearing to the newer axle, how are people retaining it since there's no outer groove for a circlip? .....
No circlip there, just remove the seal and insert the bearing against the circlip and insert the seal again. (Some has used some loctite, but can't finde the source anymore)
http://www.jobike.it/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=76426&whichpage=39#1311209

It does look like anti-seize but I can't think what purpose it would serve there and why it's made such a mess. My motor only had grease in that area. I found this picture of an older model (with silver spider) which shows a different cover with a wider gap, or is it an outer groove? My newer motor with black spider is more enclosed there. Skestans motor has a black spider so I'd assume it's a newer model and the cover should be the same as mine, hard to tell with all the mess it made.

Thanks for the Jobike link. Given the under-sizing of the axle shaft then movement of the bearing is a possibility. But I guess since the original bearing is firmly retained in place it might not be much of a concern after all. Maybe a circlip simply slid up the axle to the second bearing is enough to stop it from wandering. I read somewhere about using Loctite 648 but that sounds like trouble when it comes time for the next service.
 

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amberwolf said:
Are you willing to pedal, potentially quite hard/alot, to get what you want?

What specific top speed do you already get?
Mine is mountain bike which has 27 gears. My top speed is 34km/h. It's quite windy here so i think balance of candance and torque would be suitable for me.
 
Doohickey said:
E-bike lover said:
2.How does 48v battery works on 36v motor? Will the power exceed 250W? I have seen that if a 48v battery being used on a 36v motor, u could have more speed. Is it 30% more? If i use a 48v battery on 48v motor, the speed will get lower but more torque. What is the maximum speed?

The stock firmware will refuse to work with wrong battery voltage.

On the OSF firmware, the maximum power can be limited to whatever value (watts) you want, irrespective of what motor & battery voltage combo you have installed.

With a 36v motor and 48v battery, you can have higher cadence at the cranks, which does not necessarily mean higher speed (at the wheel). With the "correct" combination of motor and battery, it stops assisting well at around 75 - 80 rpm at the cranks. If you want to pedal faster than that, then the 36v motor, 48v battery combo is useful - with that you can pedal at up to 120rpm if you want.

Again, this is referring to speed at the cranks (cadence) - with 48v motor and 48v battery, you will get "normal" cadence, and "normal" torque at the cranks. With 36v and 48v, you will get a motor that can go to higher cadence, and less torque at the cranks, so you have to pedal faster to get the same amount of power in the end (higher speed / cadence but less torque = same amount of power). Some people want to pedal faster, hence getting this combo. How this affects the final speed at the wheel depends on the gearing of your bike.

However, now the OSF has a kind of "overdrive" mode giving you assistance up to 120rpm even on "correct" motor and voltage combos, IIRC it's a bit inefficient in that high cadence rrange.



E-bike lover said:
4.There is a bluetooth function on SW102. Is it able to update the firmware via app or website? Or is it still developing?
I know a bit programming in website.
Link from github doesn't mention:https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki

You can update the firmware of the sw102 itself via bluetooth and app (that's the only way to do it), however the motor itself still has to be updated via computer (with stlink), and since they both have to have the same version you cannot update everything over just buetooth, so you still need computer. It's theoretically possible if someone implements it, I think.
Thanks for giving me some imagination about the speed. However, i am still curious about the motor's performance when it comes to different configurations because once the motor was setup u couldn't change the hardware(winding differnece). And the key point is that winding would affect the performance? According to what u have said, 36v motor,limit to 250w can have more speed but less torque than 48v motor,limit to 250w. How about if I bought a 48v motor, but limit it to 36v and runs with 48v battery. Will it have the same performance as the true 36v motor?

Can i use this app https://github.com/TSDZ2-ESP32/TSDZ2-ESP32-Wiki/wiki in sw102? If yes, is the update function of motor's controller firmware available? Or is this app can only be used on the board of TSDZ2-ESP32 project?
 
Waynemarlow said:
Gosh I had forgotten about those seals

Looked up my bearing supplier and low and behold

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Seals-V-Ring-Seals-NITRILE-V-Rings/c19_4521_4778/index.html
Did you find one that fits for replacing the original seal? Mine got all chewed up do I can’t take measurements anymore.
 
I just flashed my 48v TSDZ2 motor with the stock firmware following the instructions on the eco-bike.com website and now the motor is completely dead!

There's nothing! The screen still comes on but no power on throttle or PAS...

Anyone else experienced this? Anything I can do to troubleshoot / fix?

(these were the instructions I followed - https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2-motor-firmware-programming)
 
famichiki said:
Elinx said:
skestans said:
Some grey seal fell out of the motor today... ..
Couldn't be that the same stuff (anti seize?) that is noticed here?

famichiki said:
When adding a second bearing to the newer axle, how are people retaining it since there's no outer groove for a circlip? .....
No circlip there, just remove the seal and insert the bearing against the circlip and insert the seal again. (Some has used some loctite, but can't finde the source anymore)
http://www.jobike.it/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=76426&whichpage=39#1311209

It does look like anti-seize but I can't think what purpose it would serve there and why it's made such a mess. My motor only had grease in that area. I found this picture of an older model (with silver spider) which shows a different cover with a wider gap, or is it an outer groove? My newer motor with black spider is more enclosed there. Skestans motor has a black spider so I'd assume it's a newer model and the cover should be the same as mine, hard to tell with all the mess it made.

Thanks for the Jobike link. Given the under-sizing of the axle shaft then movement of the bearing is a possibility. But I guess since the original bearing is firmly retained in place it might not be much of a concern after all. Maybe a circlip simply slid up the axle to the second bearing is enough to stop it from wandering. I read somewhere about using Loctite 648 but that sounds like trouble when it comes time for the next service.
I’ll take mine apart later today to have a look. There is indeed anti seize but it’s probably the anti seize I put on the cranks that somehow spread all over.

What fell out is definitely parts of some kind of silicon seal. And yes I have a black spider, bought the whole thing about 9 months ago so a bit bummed it’s already failing.

I took it apart, and that’s what fell out. 2/3 of it is still in place.

https://imgur.com/a/soqwN4S
 
skestans said:
I took it apart, and that’s what fell out. 2/3 of it is still in place.

https://imgur.com/a/soqwN4S

Is the plastic cover smashed around there too? The photo is a bit too dark to tell.
 
itsallwhite said:
I just flashed my 48v TSDZ2 motor with the stock firmware following the instructions on the eco-bike.com website and now the motor is completely dead!

There's nothing! The screen still comes on but no power on throttle or PAS...

Anyone else experienced this? Anything I can do to troubleshoot / fix?

(these were the instructions I followed - https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2-motor-firmware-programming)

So, what kind of display do you have?

You might have flashed the option byte to 0...

Make sure you read all first, then load program memory, load data memory, and then save/write all.

If you did not read all, and then chose write all, the option byte got saved with nothing on it. You'll need to load the stockoptionbyte.s19 file and write it to your option byte tab...
 
famichiki said:
It does look like anti-seize but I can't think what purpose it would serve there and why it's made such a mess. My motor only had grease in that area. I found this picture of an older model (with silver spider) which shows a different cover with a wider gap, or is it an outer groove? My newer motor with black spider is more enclosed there. Skestans motor has a black spider so I'd assume it's a newer model and the cover should be the same as mine, hard to tell with all the mess it made.
Yes that shot of the cover is of a very early engine, in that groove sits a seal with an outer ring covering it. It is crap and lets in mud and water pretty quickly as we have found out.

Sorry I've not had a chance to follow up on the various seals that we have talked about for the later covers.

The early spiders had only a rubber cover as a seal, the later ones have a proper seal, much better.
 
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