New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Broke the spindle on my fatbike the other day, 100mm motor. I was tuning in the pressure on the front fork, so I put a lot of weight on the pedals, and the drive side just snapped. Thumbs up for Ebird store for just shipping out a new one for free. Told me they were stronger now, but Im nor sure about this motor anymore for my riding. The fatbike had only 300km, but a fair share of those were single trails. Weird thing is on my other bike, a full suspension sees jumps and drops all the time, but after 800km not a single problem (well, a blue gear failure, but that was my fault). The fatbike sees way less abuse, and is mostly used for slow rides.
 

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HrKlev said:
Broke the spindle on my fatbike the other day. I was tuning in the pressure on the front fork, so I put a lot of weight on the pedals, and the drive side just snapped. Thumbs up for Ebird store for just shipping out a new one for free. Told me they were stronger now, but Im nor sure about this motor anymore for my riding. The fatbike had only 300km, but a fair share of those were single trails. Weird thing is on my other bike, a full suspension sees jumps and drops all the time, but after 800km not a single problem (well, a blue gear failure, but that was my fault). The fatbike sees way less abuse, and is mostly used for slow rides.

Maybe I will give it a shot with the extra bearings on both sides, but I already have other plans for torque sensing motor setup.

How much weight? With 85kg nothing has happened yet.
 
HrKlev said:
Broke the spindle on my fatbike the other day. I was tuning in the pressure on the front fork, so I put a lot of weight on the pedals, and the drive side just snapped. Thumbs up for Ebird store for just shipping out a new one for free. Told me they were stronger now, but Im nor sure about this motor anymore for my riding. The fatbike had only 300km, but a fair share of those were single trails. Weird thing is on my other bike, a full suspension sees jumps and drops all the time, but after 800km not a single problem (well, a blue gear failure, but that was my fault). The fatbike sees way less abuse, and is mostly used for slow rides.

Maybe I will give it a shot with the extra bearings on both sides, but I already have other plans for torque sensing motor setup.

How much weight? With 85kg nothing has happened yet.
 
~88kg. Guess around 95 with camelback and other equipment.

I would think bottoming out 160mm suspension on the other bike is a lot more weight on the pedals. Im not jumping the fatbike, but it is a hardtail, so maybe the shockload is higher after all...?
 
HrKlev said:
~88kg. Guess around 95 with camelback and other equipment.

I would think bottoming out 160mm suspension on the other bike is a lot more weight on the pedals. Im not jumping the fatbike, but it is a hardtail, so maybe the shockload is higher after all...?

Shock load is what will start a crack at the snap ring groove. It usually won't break right away, the crack will slowly expand over time. There is also a matter of luck. Some will crack and others won't. But once the crack starts the part is doomed. Offroad riding seems to be a step too far for this motor. But maybe if enough of them break someone will make a better part. Like the rubber gear it may be worth while to have a spare on hand.
 
Retrorockit said:
Shock load is what will start a crack at the snap ring groove. It usually won't break right away, the crack will slowly expand over time. There is also a matter of luck. Some will crack and others won't. But once the crack starts the part is doomed. Offroad riding seems to be a step too far for this motor. But maybe if enough of them break someone will make a better part. Like the rubber gear it may be worth while to have a spare on hand.

It is a shame that whoever made the fatbike adapters couldn't have come up with a solution to do away with the circlips altogether.
 
Waynemarlow said:
But have you compared the drag compared to say the early Bosch and Shimano units ? The Bafang BBS02 I had was definitely worse, the Bosch unit I rode was similar to worse, but then if you go fitting lots of gears and sprag clutches you can't expect any thing less.

On mine using the V20 software I have the first level set at 40 - 50 W which is what I reckon about the losses of the motor and gears to make my bike equal to a non motor fitted bike.

I've been inspecting my motor and all the bearings use contacting rubber seals. At the risk of contamination, replacing them with non-contacting sealed bearings may go some way towards improving the drag.
 
Retrorockit said:
HrKlev said:
~88kg. Guess around 95 with camelback and other equipment.

I would think bottoming out 160mm suspension on the other bike is a lot more weight on the pedals. Im not jumping the fatbike, but it is a hardtail, so maybe the shockload is higher after all...?

Shock load is what will start a crack at the snap ring groove. It usually won't break right away, the crack will slowly expand over time. There is also a matter of luck. Some will crack and others won't. But once the crack starts the part is doomed. Offroad riding seems to be a step too far for this motor. But maybe if enough of them break someone will make a better part. Like the rubber gear it may be worth while to have a spare on hand.

What kind of shock loads? Not sure if things like impacts against the pedals and bike falling over on it's side could cause formation of micro cracks.
 
famichiki said:
Waynemarlow said:
But have you compared the drag compared to say the early Bosch and Shimano units ? The Bafang BBS02 I had was definitely worse, the Bosch unit I rode was similar to worse, but then if you go fitting lots of gears and sprag clutches you can't expect any thing less.

On mine using the V20 software I have the first level set at 40 - 50 W which is what I reckon about the losses of the motor and gears to make my bike equal to a non motor fitted bike.

I've been inspecting my motor and all the bearings use contacting rubber seals. At the risk of contamination, replacing them with non-contacting sealed bearings may go some way towards improving the drag.

I'm also interested in how to improve it. Mine without power working so, that some turns pedalling is ok then other some pedalling is hard. And then again. Turning it with the pedals but by hand and without chain I cannot feel any heavy drag like when I was riding it. It seems my drag comes only under load.
I've tested how it is working if I remove the motor. Well, it's the same. It is not due to the motor.
 
Does anyone know if we should lube the torque sensor? The disc surfaces are clean but have some some kind of tacky, waxy feel to them so maybe there was something applied from the factory that has dried up? Also how about on the central disc (teflon?), it looks like it has some dirty grease on there and I think it contacts the case when installed.
 

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Elinx said:
This picture shows 2x HK2214 bearings, but that is the only one I could find here.

So the diagram would be:
bearingplaces2.jpg

I've removed the non-drive side roller bearing, so can confirm there are two HK2214 used. On both the drive and non-drive sides there are steps in the gear case to hold them in the correct position. The drive side comes out with the torque sensor, the non-drive side can be tapped out with a socket etc inserted through the drive side.

But both these roller bearings are weird and have a lot of side-to-side play, about 2mm, I can't find any from a reputable brand like this. One side has a wider race too, extending past the rollers a couple of mm.

From what I can tell normally the inner race should perfectly fit the outer casing. In HK2214 I can only find versions with rubber seals on either one or both sides. The factory ones have no seals, but it appears like there is still room allowed for them. I don't want to replace with no-name bearings, so will probably get some HK2214-2RS which have a seal each side.

So lots of questions.. why would these bearings with so much play be chosen? Are they actually normal? If I can find some without seals and no play will they be better or cause some other problem? Would fitting a bearing with seals be acceptable? :confused:
 

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There is a discussion by Mmarc67 on the Cyclurba.fr forum about removing the captive HK2214 roller bearing from the torque sensor assembly.

https://cyclurba.fr/forum/510674/moteur-pn-dalier-tongcheng-tsdz2.html?from=331&discussionID=19836&messageID=510674&rubriqueID=110&pageprec=

Basically you need to cut the wires at the rectangular silicone covered sensor module, unbolt and remove it. If you keep on reading in that thread, it shows how to extend those wires and keep them out of the way, so you don't need to cut them again next time.

After doing this you may need to calibrate your torque sensor.

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/How-to-calibrate-the-torque-sensor

Yay. :cry:
 
sysrq said:
vass said:
Little review off my TSDZ2 (48v motor 52V battery)

With the OSF, thermal pads and temp sensor is a damn good motor (never used it on oem form :mrgreen: )
I have ridden some bosh and yamaha (entry level ones) and the TSDZ2 is in my opinion better and more powerfull (and with the osf way more flexible) .
Its so nice that i wanted only to comute with my old mtb and now i am buying a nice used full suspension because it got me hooked again on offroad bike riding (i have a enduro motorcycle so i like this stuff, but it this i can ride places i cant with it, also my hardtaill sucks on single tracks and it killing my back :D )

So if you have an old bike and can solder and use a computer (or have a friend that can do it) go for it :)

36V version doesn't seem so powerful. Insufficient thermal management doesn't help for continuous loads either.

Never rode a 36V one but i guess it wil be away less powerfull, mine is configured to be able to go to 17A 750W on peak.
Thermal mods and temp sensor make it safe to use this kind of power.
I rode some bosh and yamaha bikes and say my tsdz2 is more powerfull , altought those engines are more "refined" (but i love to be able to change whatever i want on the fw level and i need to ride less and try to fine tune my motor :mrgreen: )
 
Hello all,

Just got my TSDZ2 installed and it's wonderful. However, as the autumn is soon arriving, I need headlights for the bike. I have understood that the Y-splitter from speed sensor provides 6 V for headlights. I ended up buying a pair of these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000657217552.html

I don't want to ruin my battery so I'd like to ask a bit help with them.

1) They seem to draw 10W, is this too much for the battery, especially with 6V?

2) If I install them in parallel, that should provide 6 V for both?

3) How do I turn headlights on/off from the VLCD5?

I didn't find answer from google, so I'd really appreciate any help!
 
Make sure the drive side sits correctly on the face of the Bottom Bracket, dimple the non drive side retainer with a centre punch along he line of the BB, tighten the castellated nut slightly, measure and shim the spacers correctly, fit the bolts and tighten the large nut if needed by hitting the spanner end with a club hammer, throw away the mounting bolt and plate.
 
Waynemarlow said:
Make sure the drive side sits correctly on the face of the Bottom Bracket, dimple the non drive side retainer with a centre punch along he line of the BB, tighten the castellated nut slightly, measure and shim the spacers correctly, fit the bolts and tighten the large nut if needed by hitting the spanner end with a club hammer, throw away the mounting bolt and plate.

English is my second language, but I think I get the idea (will have to look up a few words). Will it be strong enough, and with how much force can I tighten it? Noone made pictures of this I guess? Thx buddy!
 
vass said:
sysrq said:
vass said:
Little review off my TSDZ2 (48v motor 52V battery)

With the OSF, thermal pads and temp sensor is a damn good motor (never used it on oem form :mrgreen: )
I have ridden some bosh and yamaha (entry level ones) and the TSDZ2 is in my opinion better and more powerfull (and with the osf way more flexible) .
Its so nice that i wanted only to comute with my old mtb and now i am buying a nice used full suspension because it got me hooked again on offroad bike riding (i have a enduro motorcycle so i like this stuff, but it this i can ride places i cant with it, also my hardtaill sucks on single tracks and it killing my back :D )

So if you have an old bike and can solder and use a computer (or have a friend that can do it) go for it :)

36V version doesn't seem so powerful. Insufficient thermal management doesn't help for continuous loads either.

Never rode a 36V one but i guess it wil be away less powerfull, mine is configured to be able to go to 17A 750W on peak.
Thermal mods and temp sensor make it safe to use this kind of power.
I rode some bosh and yamaha bikes and say my tsdz2 is more powerfull , altought those engines are more "refined" (but i love to be able to change whatever i want on the fw level and i need to ride less and try to fine tune my motor :mrgreen: )
So far 36V 350W version results in 15.10 Amps peak and 520 Watts peak. Not sure about the actual output.
 
famichiki said:
Does anyone know if we should lube the torque sensor? The disc surfaces are clean but have some some kind of tacky, waxy feel to them so maybe there was something applied from the factory that has dried up? Also how about on the central disc (teflon?), it looks like it has some dirty grease on there and I think it contacts the case when installed.

From what I can find, the sensor disc surfaces do not need any lubrication.

There are also 2 x teflon washers around the shaft which have grease on them in my previous photo, but I think that grease has spun out of the unsealed roller bearing. There was no grease between the washers, only on the outsides and mainly on the one against the case. Adding grease between the washers creates substantial drag.

For reference, the washers are ID 28mm x OD 51mm. The one against the case is thicker at 0.5mm, the other against the torque sensor is 0.4mm.

Where the case side one of mine touches the case it's a bit scuffed, and the torque sensor side one has some kind of minor defect.
 

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0xdeadbeef said:
Hello all,

Just got my TSDZ2 installed and it's wonderful. However, as the autumn is soon arriving, I need headlights for the bike. I have understood that the Y-splitter from speed sensor provides 6 V for headlights. I ended up buying a pair of these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000657217552.html

I don't want to ruin my battery so I'd like to ask a bit help with them.

1) They seem to draw 10W, is this too much for the battery, especially with 6V?

2) If I install them in parallel, that should provide 6 V for both?

3) How do I turn headlights on/off from the VLCD5?

I didn't find answer from google, so I'd really appreciate any help!

1. It's too much for the motor controller or the wires for 6V output which are very thin. Use a relay or another switch to turn on the lights and connect them straight to the battery.

3. Press the light switch.
 
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