Bafang M500/M600 thread

This is the M600 controller configuration page of the Bafang BESST program.
Unfortunately the parameters that can be set are few, speed limit, type and wheel circumference and sensors calibrations.
Note: The speed limit can only be lowered, the maximum level is decided by the manufacturer and cannot be exceeded, even after a software update.
I am studying how to bypass this limit.
 

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Animalector said:
What more do you want? You can unlock the speed and calibrate the speed using the wheel size (diameter) that's pretty good.

It would be nice if you can set the speed and pedal assist on each level, thus having a much smoother ride.
 
I've been riding the M500 and M600 and I am pretty happy with how the 5 assist levels operate, I've so far not had a desire to make changes to speeds or assist in different levels. I think they've got it pretty right to be honest.

I guess there could be cases for customisation, (if you want really low assistance levels at high speeds, like on a roadbike perhaps)

And this is just my opinion of course :mrgreen:

Andy
 
I just heard this back from Grace at Frey, (not exactly helpful):

There is no way to calibrate the speed reading on the M600, it is the original M600 motor we order from Bafang, and it will be affected by some factors such as tire size, road condition etc.

I sent a note back to her and asked about BESST.
 
Andy, where did you get your m600? I asked Luna whether they would consider allowing users to flash the latest Bafang firmware and they arrogantly responded that the Bafang programming was garbage and their tuning was superior. I've been pretty frustrated with the Luna tuning at lower PAS. It's funny that most non-Luna users seem to be happy with the stock Bafang firmware.
 
Animalector said:
What more do you want? You can unlock the speed and calibrate the speed using the wheel size (diameter) that's pretty good.

It would be useful to be able to adjust the level values.
Unfortunately, the maximum speed can only be lowered, there is a block that does not allow to go beyond that decided by the manufacturer.
Of course you can change the wheel diameter to bypass the problem.
 
I was emailing with Bafang service and they sent me firmware update for my motor. My current firmware: CRX 10NC4818i132014.2
This is 48V motor, so it should better suit the motor than 43V version. I do not have Besst tool for the timer being, just have to order it.
If you want you can check it out, and please report how it works.
 

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artyy said:
I was emailing with Bafang service and they sent me firmware update for my motor. My current firmware: CRX 10NC4818i132014.2
This is 48V motor, so it should better suit the motor than 43V version. I do not have Besst tool for the timer being, just have to order it.
If you want you can check it out, and please report how it works.

This is the firmware with my motors arrived dated 2019-11-26. My current firmware is much better.
It is dated 2020-08-06.
 
Thanks for reply. Would you tell me what actually is the diffrence between Firmware for 48V and 43V that you are using now in terms of motor smoothness and battery drainnig and are there any "side effects" related to the fact that this is 43V soft version and your battery is 48V?
 
artyy said:
Thanks for reply. Would you tell me what actually is the diffrence between Firmware for 48V and 43V that you are using now in terms of motor smoothness and battery drainnig and are there any "side effects" related to the fact that this is 43V soft version and your battery is 48V?

The only side effect is the indication of the battery level which is wrong, for the rest only advantages.
This is mainly used at level 1 and 2, 3 for extreme climbs, 4 and 5 are not used.
 
CiDi said:
artyy said:
Thanks for reply. Would you tell me what actually is the diffrence between Firmware for 48V and 43V that you are using now in terms of motor smoothness and battery drainnig and are there any "side effects" related to the fact that this is 43V soft version and your battery is 48V?

The only side effect is the indication of the battery level which is wrong, for the rest only advantages.
This is mainly used at level 1 and 2, 3 for extreme climbs, 4 and 5 are not used.

Well, I know that it is difficult to define how the motor works better. I have to test it myself. I use exactly the same levels as you described. But I must say that at the beginning there was a massive problem with the speed sensor but after tuning it all became smoother and the motor seemed to work comparably with TSDZ2. The only real problem now is error 21 that often appears when I use the throttle at low speed (my prefered walking mode) and very really error 30.
 
I am considering getting an M600 to replace my Bosch Gen2 motor, mainly as I would like that addition of a throttle, but also because a little more power would be useful occasionally.

I have used a Bafang hub motor on another bike, but was disappointed with how the assist levels work; each level not only restricts the available power, but also has it's own speed limit, level 1 for example will only assist up to around 10 MPH. The other frustration is that the throttle is also subject to the same restrictions as the PAS; you cannot override the limited power or speed with throttle use.

Could someone please explain how the various assist levels work in practice for a (standard) M600?

Thanks.
 
From page 9...
In general it feels a lot like a Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano ebike... Although the new Bosch smart / auto mode is pretty fancy.

Animalector said:
No Problems.

I have been thinking about the M500 vs M600. I've ridden both, I currently have the M600 installed on the bike, and it is noticably a huge difference compared to the M500.

I typicaly ride single track mountain bike park trails (not "Bike Park" jump tracks) just trails. Some have jumps, some have rocky technical sections, climbs descents etc a nice mix. A typical trail loop is 15km long with about 450m of elevation. I ride with the 450Wh Bafang Pack (43V nominal, 12S 3P).

1. The M500 is very quiet, and my setup has 5 settings configured on the display for power assist.
Level 1 offers mild assist where you have to work hard to get results. it very much feels like you're doing most of the work, but it certainly flattens out the climbs. On the loop above it has about 80 - 90% available at the end. Basically it feels like you're doign everything... Until you go to Level 0... then you realist it was heloing afterall.. Use this mode to ride with mates on Non-Ebikes, without getting too far ahead of them on climbs.
Level 2 and 3 are noticable inrements in assistance. At level 2 the power is more obvious, but you still have to work hard for result. It still feels natural, and feels like it's you getting the results, not the bike. On the loop above, it has between 75 and 85% available at the end.
Level 3 is similar, but now, when pushing hard on the pedals, you're getting max power. On the loop above, you'll get between 65 and 80% available at the end depending on speed up climbs etc.
Level 4 it becomes obvious that it's the bike doing the work and not you. Riding hard (working hard) on the loop above, there might be 50 - 60% left, but it will have been a fast ride!
Level 5 there is no denying that the bike is doing it all, push the pedals even a bit and you get some agressive percentage of max power. On the loop above, there's only so much you can assist physcially without overshooting corners, so you'll end up with under 50% remaining, but won't have had much of a hard workout.

2. The M600 is loud. On the bike it sounds loud, but if you're riding behind it, the sound is not obnoxious and from a few metres away, most people wouldn't notice over the sounds of tyres freewheel etc.
Level 1 - Equivalent to Level 3 above, but battery is more like 65% remaining
Level 2 - Equivalent to level 4 above, but battery would be around 50% remaining
Level 3, 4 and 5 I have only used for a bit of fun and not for long because it's just too fast for that style of riding, on a wide flat'ish trail, it'd be great, but you're not really getting much exercise. I did the loop above on a combination of 2, 3, and 4 on and off and ended up with araound 30% remaining

The biggest difference off-the-shelf is the speed limits on the M500, on Level 3 or above, hitting the 25km/h limit happens pretty regularly, and is a pain. If this was 30km/h it would be noticably different, and would probably suffice for most scenarios.

With the M600, even on level one you will exceed 25km/h easily, so it is great that it has a 45 km/h limit. it makes riding single track, flat at 30km/h super fun, faster is probably not possible given the conditions.

My Prefernce:
I will be going back to the M500. Quieter, improved battery life, more natural feel, and Level 4 and 5 are still absolutely heaps of fast fun when needed.
If I rode mostly fire-trails with long 2 - 3km climbs, probably the M600, but get the 600Wh battery for sure.

Andy
 
Thanks @Animalector, I should've said that I have already read the entire thread, what I am actually wanting to know is is there any (additional) speed restriction in each assist level e.g. level 1 will only assist to 8 MPH, level 2 to 12 MPH etc, etc. Also, is the throttle subject to the same speed and power restriction in each assist level or is it able to call on full power without any (additional) speed restriction i.e. does the throttle work the same as it does in level 5 regardless of which assist level is selected?
 
NO I'm pretty sure that in level 1, I get assist to full speed. hang on I'll check and edit when I get back.

*EDIT*
Yep in level 1 it provided watts right up to 30km/h (my speed setting) not huge watts but it was certainly assisting.

*EDIT 2*
no idea about throttle response sorry, I only use it Torque PAS.
 
Limbs said:
Thanks @Animalector, I should've said that I have already read the entire thread, what I am actually wanting to know is is there any (additional) speed restriction in each assist level e.g. level 1 will only assist to 8 MPH, level 2 to 12 MPH etc, etc. Also, is the throttle subject to the same speed and power restriction in each assist level or is it able to call on full power without any (additional) speed restriction i.e. does the throttle work the same as it does in level 5 regardless of which assist level is selected?

I have been using m600 for 6 months now. Yes, the throttle is speed restricted on each assist level as you described. The massive downside of this system is closed soft that you can not modify and to get worse it is the policy of Bafang.
 
just to clarify, is it the speed that is limited with the throttle or the power? I can "sort of" understand if it is the power, but I cannot fathom why they would cut out throttle assistance over a certain speed...

I have a throttle here I should just plug it in and see for myself. :shock:

Andy
 
Animalector said:
I have a throttle here I should just plug it in and see for myself. :shock:

Would be good if you could please Andy, as there seems to be a bit of contradiction here, but I guess that it is possible that different firmwares behave differently.
 
Has anybody here managed to put some high mileage on one of these motors yet and are they generally reliable? Do the factory and Luna plastic gears hold up ok? Also do these have much drag when pedalling unassisted with the motor off?
 
I have an M600 in my FLX F4 Trail. I also have a throttle. I will describe the PAS levels and throttle use on my bike.

There are no specific speed limits per PAS level. My bike has an overall limit for assist of 28MPH. It doesn't matter what PAS level I'm in. In normal use I only occasionally use a PAS level greater that one or two and I definitely get assist up to 28 MPH. If I had the ability to adjust the levels I would probably reduce the assist in level one. I like getting exercise and level one provides a bit more assist than I would prefer. Assist is very smooth and natural feeling. The only time it feels a bit "jerky" is when I'm at a higher assist level than I need. So level 3+ feels a bit jerky when on a level road. On a big hill, when it's actually needed, levels 3+ feel great.

The throttle on my bike does nothing until you are moving at least about 5 mph. This means you can't use the throttle to take off from a stop. It also means you can't accidentally push the throttle while stopped and crash into things :)
When above 5MPH, the throttle is sensitive to the PAS level. In level one, the motor feels pretty weak when using just the throttle. Other level have more power but it's interesting to see how much the bike depends upon you pedaling. It feels much faster if I pedal in level 5 than if I just use the throttle. I find myself rarely using the throttle.

Someone asked about drag when pedaling with assist off. I do not perceive any drag but once you get used to pedaling this heavy a bike with pedal assist, it feels very heavy with no assist. I frequently turn off assist when riding with other, possibly slower, riders on fairly level terrain. It definitely enhances battery life.
 
The throttle on my bike does nothing until you are moving at least about 5 mph.
My Frey M600 V2 has a 'zero start' throttle. I find it comes in handy when walking the bike up a steep hill or through consolidated isothermal snow (such as crossing avalanche debris in the spring), but it does take the perfection of a 'light touch' (yes, I know there is a walk assist mode, which I personally do not find all that helpful). I have since found that Frey is now also shipping bikes with zero start throttles disabled (it is on our new CC). So far I have not had any mishaps with an accidental throttle activation, but the potential does exist.

It feels much faster if I pedal in level 5 than if I just use the throttle.
I have found that if I am going max PAS speed in level 5 (about 40km/hr), activating the throttle then increases assist to about 45.

Like Wayne, I find I rarely use the throttle, and could easily live without it except I really do find it handy when I am pushing the bike, or when I have to avoid pedal strikes in terrain where I can't pedal for a stretch without hitting something with my cranks, and sometimes this is also <5km/hr.

Given the above, they could ship everything with zero start throttle disabled, but would be nice if they made an option to activate zero start, or not, in the menu.
 
artyy said:
CiDi said:
artyy said:
Thanks for reply. Would you tell me what actually is the diffrence between Firmware for 48V and 43V that you are using now in terms of motor smoothness and battery drainnig and are there any "side effects" related to the fact that this is 43V soft version and your battery is 48V?

The only side effect is the indication of the battery level which is wrong, for the rest only advantages.
This is mainly used at level 1 and 2, 3 for extreme climbs, 4 and 5 are not used.

Well, I know that it is difficult to define how the motor works better. I have to test it myself. I use exactly the same levels as you described. But I must say that at the beginning there was a massive problem with the speed sensor but after tuning it all became smoother and the motor seemed to work comparably with TSDZ2. The only real problem now is error 21 that often appears when I use the throttle at low speed (my prefered walking mode) and very really error 30.

It also rarely happens to me that error 21 appears during use on foot, with the accelerator at very low speed, just push the mtb until it reads the speed sensor and everything starts up again.
 
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