E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

TorEddy said:
This is when i notice that slow pedaling on a singletrack is not ideal on the LMX64.
The pas delivers power very unevenly and is far from the feeling you get on a Shimano steps system.
This might not be surprising due to the raw power of the 64, but it would be nice to enjoy a smoother pas ride. This i why i am seriously considering changing to the new Silixcon controller as i understand it has a much smoother pas riding.
But if i change controller, i would also like to switch to the new belt drive. Does anybody have any experience with the new high-end belt that is supposed to last longer than the original belt?
Click to expand...

This sounds like the possible drawback of a torque sensor only pedal assist. When pedaling at constant speed, the pressure on the pedal is uneven as you are only applying pressure to maintain the speed and there is less needed then when climbing for example. As a result, because the torque sensor is proportional to your "uneven" effort on the pedal, you get an on/off feeling for the assist.

This is why drives like Bosch use a combination of Torque sensing and cadence sensing. The torque sensing take the beginning of the curve so you get an immediate proportional response when you put a lot of pressure on the pedals, but at sustain speed, it uses the signal from the cadence sensor to smooth out the oscillation of the torque sensor.

A while back, one guy ou built his own PAS with a BeamTS torque sensor and a cadence sensor describe the basis pretty well
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=67086&hilit=beamts#p1010327

If this is indeed the problem you are experiencing, I wonder if LMX has considered trying to add a cadence sensor to the Torque sensor and merge them for sustain high speed riding through the controller. It also depends if the Nucular controller has that functionality

EDIT: Rereading the thread, Adam did mention in post 1779 that they are looking in using cadence at higher sustained speed to improve the PAS, so we can keep our fingers crossed :)
Adam, Any News on this ?
 
Bike park riding with the 64 and testing a suntour Tri-air shock.
The shock performed well and the 3 position platform switch makes it very easy to tune.
We are thinking about offering those but production delays due to covid at suntour and some others are crazy for 2021 :cry:

[youtube]XyVNzcwe9Ts[/youtube]
 
Regarding the cadence thing, it is something I requested from our controller supplier a while back and recenteley asked about again. It's not really the cadence, but the human watts that should be used when the torque gets lower due to higher rpm on the cranks.

Adam
 
I got the battery 'issue' sorted.
I drained the battery empty with the bike running on a stand. It ran till it shut down by itself.
Voltage was then approx 42v and the fuel gauge showed -334Wh.
ACtC-3crdmpi5yriTbJv1ArlVb-HNUBL0304pLfXRGN0PZJnY5ZelJxE7I7oAk73A-L8xgKNHw5ioEW4GkSsjTFnBSr8jRzGpCi2MZD8OSP-qXDjO8R0IoEPI0ZN4tzbk8X8k_PP4Wm7DWr7fLZx0uvoK6mn-g=w2783-h1804-no


I startet a new charge and had to charge for 5,5 hours before it was full.
Voltage ended up on 58,2volt and had received 15,6Ah.
ACtC-3c45PzjfBVYEXJ6Id_tacqeaYhcams5rL6djXSSRJi2_aV5_oHFhVn8rxsc51vYvu8Y2TuDoac8RZsyvVeRbIbqXRlDHJ1tXilKlXtNEi4md3FIZgGdQA0fgnchgLkl49tL1PBTu96U2FDXiLn_dViUhw=w3210-h1804-no


So now the LMX shows a full tank and 58v :D
The battery has not been completely drained for a while, so i guess it needs this to keep track of its capacity.
Regarding the voltage, maybe the BMS needed some kind of a reset to fully charge its cells.
ACtC-3cIh1AmRIOmJjK-C1C2eQkO8KLE4d9kJdJn3oxdXdSiZyV3k6o6q7jRCH4GXUoZDLEz6GDWWoFYwM_C8qcejLkvHnOgmkHw4BYaWyGrXPAAiVdTnuL8qFPeZ7ivSqZRo9pJrtVUCbgLfc0SXcOaOtrjNg=w2599-h1705-no
 
What kind of tyres are you guys using? Just got a flat on my front tyre from busting the valve into something. Looking at Eddy Current 2,6 27x5. Any tips? Riding mostly wet dirt rocks and roots.
 
hkj said:
What kind of tyres are you guys using? Just got a flat on my front tyre from busting the valve into something. Looking at Eddy Current 2,6 27x5. Any tips? Riding mostly wet dirt rocks and roots.
Click to expand...

I ride Maxxis DHR and DHF II 27.5 2.8" tires. They have 3C aka triple compound rubber that makes them grip well.
I just bought a Cushcore tire insert, new slime, co2, darts for fixing holes, and a mini pump.
I have ran 2 bar pressure to minimize punctures and rim dents, but now want to run a lower pressure to have better grip on wet roots and rocks. Really looking forward to see how the cushcore works, but i have heard it's a pain to install...

BTW, good to hear your new belt is holding up.. Maybe LMX will have it out of its beta fase soon:)
 
Nice video @jimmywazer

Good to see somebody taking the time to film from a third party view.
It's much more entertaining when you get a mix of both views, not only the 1.st person chest mount view.
 
bzhwindtalker said:
Bike park riding with the 64 and testing a suntour Tri-air shock.
The shock performed well and the 3 position platform switch makes it very easy to tune.
We are thinking about offering those but production delays due to covid at suntour and some others are crazy for 2021 :cry:
Click to expand...

Nice video Adam. That place looks really fun! And the sound of that belt drive is music to my ears :lol:
When you are talking about premium parts on the LMX64, i can vouch for that Rockshox Vivid R2C Coil shock. It gives the bike a balanced and playful feel (without having tested any other rear shocks on this bike :roll: ).
I'm planning to upgrade to a ZEB fork together with a new controller and a belt drive.
And maybe switch to a full twist throttle.. Then i recon this bike is perfect!
 
scrambler said:
TorEddy said:
What do you mean? Are you looking for chain length or sideways chainline (if so, how do i describe that)?
Click to expand...

What I mean by chainline, is the distance between the centerline of the bike (middle of the bike in the longitudinal axis) and the center of the sprocket.
https://bike.bikegremlin.com/1755/bicycle-chainline/

I am looking for that distance for both the motor sprocket and the Bottom bracket sprocket
Click to expand...

I measured both front and rear sprocket, and find 5,75cm is the distance from the centerline to the sprockets.
Bottom bracket chainring was harder to measure, but i find 7cm is the distance from center.
 
Thanks ,
So 57.5mm on the motor side and 70mm on the pedaling side.
Did you measure the center of the chain?
On the pedaling side 70mm sounds like a lot, did you have the chain on the middle gear?

Thanks again
 
bzhwindtalker said:
Regarding the cadence thing, it is something I requested from our controller supplier a while back and recenteley asked about again. It's not really the cadence, but the human watts that should be used when the torque gets lower due to higher rpm on the cranks.

Adam
Click to expand...

Thanks Adam, Appreciate the update.

On the LMX 64, can you share the official chainline on the motor side and the pedaling side (Centerline to center of chain/belt).
And can you share the width of the Bottom bracket?
 
scrambler said:
Thanks ,
So 57.5mm on the motor side and 70mm on the pedaling side.
Did you measure the center of the chain?
On the pedaling side 70mm sounds like a lot, did you have the chain on the middle gear?

Thanks again
Click to expand...
Yes that's correct.
I measured center chain in front with the chainring with the chain in the middle of the cassette.
 
Yesterday I made a 25Km ride (nice hard MTB Trail) and battery was completely drained after it (and I do pedal) after a while the Nucular controller was reducing power to avoid the under voltage limit I guess and so I rode at 30km/h on hills.

I think It would really benefit of a 14S6P but I test-fitted a cardboard model of the big 91 cells Hailong case and unfortunately I think it would not fit, well it fits once installed but you can't install it.

I had the battey BMS cutoff too when I let the battery A go over 55A so I have a hunch that my battery is not from LMX (I bought the bike from a store as "slightly used" but many parts are not genuine like one tyre and I guess the chainring (I got a chinese 6$ part))

Btw: the Topeak Defender XC1 Front Fender is perfect (it was a muddy trail)
 
iacei said:
I think It would really benefit of a 14S6P but I test-fitted a cardboard model of the big 91 cells Hailong case and unfortunately I think it would not fit, well it fits once installed but you can't install it.
Click to expand...

Has anyone considered making an extra battery made of 2 or three layers of cells in honeycomb pattern?
One could make an aluminum box that would attach under the frame

I don’t have the exact dimensions of the bike so I just took a picture and scaled it using the 340mm BB height info, so my calculations below may not be exact.

But from that extrapolation, 2 layers of cells could allow for a 14S-4P (56cells) and 3 layers (if it does not interfere with the front wheel at max compression) for 14S-6P (84cells).

If someone can give me the length of the bottom part of the frame from the head tube to the bottom of the bike, I can fine tune the capacity and clearance of the front wheel at max compression.

Here are the mockup based on above assumptions
14S-4P
https://1drv.ms/u/s!At3vMAQjaOZLknId-9PzOUmORpsP?e=j1DLzT
y4mhJE79rwK7p4Ofhv9X34y8t51NmhlVYwh6fK9Nnh8HjN_WpFQrXNNCV9KX16DiOLhPe0Q8jhKxJQI3YfRQDXn_Ixc39t0xhHvOpISMSB6uCn_b573iMNVMeNh3F8Z0wE1ksseXQdOiDuiJSaqo3j45Pdg9Sc1UT25sXOm_7f0gVZmoHdCf0V4eOpmDpVHhBdRmWC51Hp7XqbRUM6GLOlnnA


14S-6P
https://1drv.ms/u/s!At3vMAQjaOZLknOPNnG6T_cHKWRM?e=CyfdpG
y4m-gddZKxl1iAIUdfo34AZb9vTg_ZjWWDa_oJH-t93B6N_YsIxMSuVticEObuK1vH-YCtt2G0TJ6qCDDwA10qtPyxCOKYKeFwA7nZnVHYG8468adTIj_JsFvXak8WBmybf0Vm_0vinHfUuzfFBVPtLaauC6nl7oMzZYceTsMeqTgvaFsRF6CcWnKXe3z_qPbtOzNhKKzQmed9NIooTSCbmow
 
TorEddy said:
Nice video @jimmywazer

Good to see somebody taking the time to film from a third party view.
It's much more entertaining when you get a mix of both views, not only the 1.st person chest mount view.
Click to expand...
Thanks I totally agree! But it is really time consuming if you dont have others to film you... this took me like 2hrs with just one samsung phone (front camera) 😅
 
Also on mode 3 I set my Battery to 55A and Phase to 180A and for some reason on full throttle uphill after like 3seconds the battery output drops to 40A and if I untwist and twist the throttle again I get my 55A back and it all happens again.... can't I get 55A continuous power? Is it limited by the battery? Because I think the Motor could handle 55A continuous... any solutions?
 
scrambler said:
iacei said:
I think It would really benefit of a 14S6P but I test-fitted a cardboard model of the big 91 cells Hailong case and unfortunately I think it would not fit, well it fits once installed but you can't install it.
Click to expand...

Has anyone considered making an extra battery made of 2 or three layers of cells in honeycomb pattern?
One could make an aluminum box that would attach under the frame

I don’t have the exact dimensions of the bike so I just took a picture and scaled it using the 340mm BB height info, so my calculations below may not be exact.

But from that extrapolation, 2 layers of cells could allow for a 14S-4P (56cells) and 3 layers (if it does not interfere with the front wheel at max compression) for 14S-6P (84cells).

If someone can give me the length of the bottom part of the frame from the head tube to the bottom of the bike, I can fine tune the capacity and clearance of the front wheel at max compression.

Here are the mockup based on above assumptions
14S-4P
https://1drv.ms/u/s!At3vMAQjaOZLknId-9PzOUmORpsP?e=j1DLzT
y4mhJE79rwK7p4Ofhv9X34y8t51NmhlVYwh6fK9Nnh8HjN_WpFQrXNNCV9KX16DiOLhPe0Q8jhKxJQI3YfRQDXn_Ixc39t0xhHvOpISMSB6uCn_b573iMNVMeNh3F8Z0wE1ksseXQdOiDuiJSaqo3j45Pdg9Sc1UT25sXOm_7f0gVZmoHdCf0V4eOpmDpVHhBdRmWC51Hp7XqbRUM6GLOlnnA


14S-6P
https://1drv.ms/u/s!At3vMAQjaOZLknOPNnG6T_cHKWRM?e=CyfdpG
y4m-gddZKxl1iAIUdfo34AZb9vTg_ZjWWDa_oJH-t93B6N_YsIxMSuVticEObuK1vH-YCtt2G0TJ6qCDDwA10qtPyxCOKYKeFwA7nZnVHYG8468adTIj_JsFvXak8WBmybf0Vm_0vinHfUuzfFBVPtLaauC6nl7oMzZYceTsMeqTgvaFsRF6CcWnKXe3z_qPbtOzNhKKzQmed9NIooTSCbmow
Click to expand...


Hi Scrambler,

I think a custom built 14s7p designed to fit in the main battery compartment area would be ideal for the LMX. The battery cases add quite a lot of bulk, so there's definitely space in the frame to fit a larger battery. 1.2kwh should be easily achievable without compromising clearance and still provide the battery plenty of protection.
 
Thank you so much Brian.
To make sure I understood your pictures properly
  • Inside width: 94 mm
  • Length: 340 / 350 mm
  • Clearance at the top (between down fram and to tube: 90 mm
  • Clearance at the bottom: 140 mm
  • Height of the frame U box: 74 mm
 
scrambler said:
Thank you so much Brian.
To make sure I understood your pictures properly
  • Inside width: 94 mm
Inside is dead on 90mm
  • Length: 340 / 350 mm
yep
  • Clearance at the top (between down fram and to tube: 90 mm
yep
  • Clearance at the bottom: 140 mm
yep, but that is to the top of the shock mount, so you need to take a couple cm off to clear the shock at that end of the frame
  • Height of the frame U box: 74 mm
closer to 70mm at the bottom of the frame, tapering to 60mm at the top end of the frame
Click to expand...
 
jimmywazer said:
Also on mode 3 I set my Battery to 55A and Phase to 180A and for some reason on full throttle uphill after like 3seconds the battery output drops to 40A and if I untwist and twist the throttle again I get my 55A back and it all happens again.... can't I get 55A continuous power? Is it limited by the battery? Because I think the Motor could handle 55A continuous... any solutions?
Click to expand...

The original battery has a BMS with a output limit of 40A. That is what decides the maximum power for this bike.
 
TorEddy said:
jimmywazer said:
Also on mode 3 I set my Battery to 55A and Phase to 180A and for some reason on full throttle uphill after like 3seconds the battery output drops to 40A and if I untwist and twist the throttle again I get my 55A back and it all happens again.... can't I get 55A continuous power? Is it limited by the battery? Because I think the Motor could handle 55A continuous... any solutions?
Click to expand...

The original battery has a BMS with a output limit of 40A. That is what decides the maximum power for this bike.
Click to expand...
Thanks that explains kt :)
 
I run my battery at 55A and it's great. It could not handle 55A continuous due to it being 5P of 10A cells, but for very short bursts it is ok. I also don't run a BMS and have a temp sensor embedded deep in the pack to keep an eye on things.

I also run Cushcore as was asked about previously. They are a pain to install, but you forget about that once they're on. I really like them and they suit my very hard riding style well. The problem for me is figuring out tubeless. This is the first bike I've ever tried to go tubeless on and my front completely failed and the tyre side walls leak like a sieve, so I gave up and switched back to a tube. Recently the rear also leaks slowly and I have to re-inflate before every ride. :roll:
I still run the cushcore even with the tube though, and it helps to let me run the front at 15PSI. Rear is at 20PSI usually. I use Michelin Wild Enduro, 2.6" in the front and 2.8" in the rear.
I can't decide if I want to try and get tubeless working again (since I bought all the gear) or just give up and switch back to tubes when I next change the tyres.

Also, regarding the higher capacity battery, I think it might be easier and allow higher capacity to run pouch cells. It would just be a matter of finding some that are the right dimensions to fit. This is what I already tried (and failed) when I ordered 14 x 40AH cells with the idea of stacking them accross the width of the frame 11 or 12, then 2 or 3 on top. Unfortunately they were a little wider than advertised so I could only get 10 in across the width and putting 4 on top was just going to be too difficult. These are the cells I ordered: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974873177.html
Advertised size is 8*104*345mm, but the thickness is a bit too much to make it work

If you can find a cell that is at least 30AH, and no more than 6mm thick with rough width/length dimensions like above it should be possible to fit 1.5Kwh and it will stick out even less than the stock battery. I searched for a good while and couldn't find anything ideal though.

Another option for pouch cells is to use thicker cells that are only half the length needed. i.e. ~12*100*170mm
Then you could run 7 on top and 7 on bottom.

And yet another option is to find a cell that is full length, but less than 85mm wide. Then you can just stack them flat against the bottom. The thickness doesn't matter so much then as it will just effect how high they stack, assuming they are not super thick and hit the shock/top tube. This would be be easiest option, but again, I searched and couldn't find anything ideal.

If you think this could work I challenge you to find a good cell for this: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20201012014230&SearchText=3.7v+30ah

Cheers
 
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