new eZip motor

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12159
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Nov 25 2020 5:53am

Really? A Greyborg, well ok. I've always found them to look ugly then again I've never really been a fan of Enduro's in general because to the casual eye they dont look like a bicycle bicycle. Never been a fan of local bicycle store ebike neither but the mid drive ones do look quite sleek and if I was rich I'd go for one of those.

For an Enduro style ebicycle I'd go for a frame from https://vectorebike.com/componentsss and build upon that. Probably the hub motor as mid drive, Vortex. Slap a 45 or 50H motor in there and call her a day.

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5443
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 25 2020 8:33am

Tis sad ...
Everything indicates that you "need", have use for, would best appreciate an eBike with good range, geared for hills and use at only modest - safer speed ...
but you continuously demand to dream and strive for, = "want",
an eBike geared for ridiculously high speeds,
that might rarely be attempted,
exceeding all reasonable design safety limits of bike components,
making you a target for law enforcement ... and thieves,
at a horrid sacrifice of efficiency, range and safety etc.

I know it's likely futile, attempting to present "common sense" in this thread ...

But,
Available is a complete eBike with:
750w rated geared hub, capable of 1000w+ output
geared at ~22mph - for, likely, more climbing and acceleration torque than a 3000w motor 'geared" for 40mph,
4" tires - rated for all terrain and weather
Headlight, taillight, brake light and horn
300lb rated
dual oversize disc brakes
and
Key lock as theft protection,
with 1 year parts warranty and 2 year tech support
for $1395 /delivered
Giving you safe, strong, reliable, transport.
Something you have never come close to with the thousands you have spent on your various, oft widely regarded as "unsafe" or "death trap", builds
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

DAND214   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3291
Joined: Aug 10 2008 8:28pm
Location: About 1200 miles south of Chicago, in sunny/rainny Port Richey, Florida!

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Nov 25 2020 10:49am

DrkAngel wrote:
Nov 25 2020 8:33am
Tis sad ...
Everything indicates that you "need", have use for, would best appreciate an eBike with good range, geared for hills and use at only modest - safer speed ...
but you continuously demand to dream and strive for, = "want",
an eBike geared for ridiculously high speeds,
that might rarely be attempted,
exceeding all reasonable design safety limits of bike components,
making you a target for law enforcement ... and thieves,
at a horrid sacrifice of efficiency, range and safety etc.

I know it's likely futile, attempting to present "common sense" in this thread ...

But,
Available is a complete eBike with:
750w rated geared hub, capable of 1000w+ output
geared at ~22mph - for, likely, more climbing and acceleration torque than a 3000w motor 'geared" for 40mph,
4" tires - rated for all terrain and weather
Headlight, taillight, brake light and horn
300lb rated
dual oversize disc brakes
and
Key lock as theft protection,
with 1 year parts warranty and 2 year tech support
for $1395 /delivered
Giving you safe, strong, reliable, transport.
Something you have never come close to with the thousands you have spent on your various, oft widely regarded as "unsafe" or "death trap", builds
Very well put DA. I would think LC is talking about what he wishes he could do 50mph but not really gonna do it.

My best ride is a Mongoose with a chrome moly rear suspension arm. The original aluminum cracked when I added the MAC to it. Not too fast to get in trouble but faster than legal speeds here. No way in hell would I pay the price for a Cromotor since there are many out there that will go as fast and be able to destroy a cheap bike frame. Not to mention kill you. Just keep talking LC don't even think about it. We all like hearing from you and a suicide ride is not what we wanna see.

Dan

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5443
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 25 2020 4:00pm

MaxFoot.jpg
MaxFoot.jpg (254.88 KiB) Viewed 511 times
48.1V 13Ah battery = same capacity as 22.2V 28.16Ah
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
latecurtis   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3610
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 26 2020 1:52am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. looks like a girls bike. :lol: It needs a front basket for Toto :lol:

I have a better headlight also with its own 12V - 10 Ah power pack I built WITH a 3S BMS. Also my new 10S - 8P packs have at least that much capacity and my old 10P - 10S packs are at about 50% capacity so I have at least 25 miles. 30+ if I pedal assist.
IMG_0437.jpg
IMG_0437.jpg (356.05 KiB) Viewed 473 times
IMG_0438.jpg
IMG_0438.jpg (280.03 KiB) Viewed 471 times

an eBike geared for ridiculously high speeds,
that might rarely be attempted,
exceeding all reasonable design safety limits of bike components,
making you a target for law enforcement ... and thieves,
at a horrid sacrifice of efficiency, range and safety etc.
My Giant Roam will run circles around it and with two 500 watt e bikeling GEARED hub motors with all pedal gears climb any hill just as well as that over priced GIRLS bike. :lol: I am betting at least 3 mph faster. I would not be surprised if the Giant Roam can hit 25 mph.

Also the 1,800 watt motor will leave it in the dust and is geared at
download (1).png
download (1).png (32.31 KiB) Viewed 486 times
It is a 1,500 watt controller so 29 mph is achieved at 40V and 1,500 watts.

1,800 watts / 48 = 37.5 * 40 = 1,500. I do not see how that is OVERGEARED.

The only bike I built recently which was over geared was the Schwinn with the 800 watt 2,750 rpm motor and 80T #25 sprocket and is geared for 29 mph at 800 watts because it was spare parts. The new owner is complaining how it don't pedal or go up steep hills.

I cry crocodile tears for him as he wants me to order the dual drive hub for the pedal chain and 89 tooth sprocket for the upgrade. I spent my time to build it and the bike itself is worth about 100 bucks and I spent 100 on SLA batteries and 36V SLA charger and now am supposed to order parts and upgrade it for nothing ? :roll:

I fixed the 1,000 watt motor so I would give him that as it would be better up hills at 2,250 rpm and 750 watts and 24 mph gearing. I will offer it to him as am ordering a 3,000 watt brushless motor for the Haro V3 - 40 mph at 52 volts and 2,600 watts. the thing is I soldered it and no guarantee how long it will hold up.

Anyway I do not even own that bike. The blue bike you posted which is almost 1,400 bucks is only a slight step above my Currie with the 750 watt gear reduction motor so have no clue what you are talking about. 1,400 bucks is a lot of money. All the Currie needs is a car wash , sandpaper , new paint and E zip stickers and it will look 10 times better than Dorthey's blue bike. You may want to put some pink polk a dots on that. :lol:


download (3).png
download (3).png (32.56 KiB) Viewed 486 times


The only other bike I own that is running is the 20" Turbo bike with the 800 watt hub motor you named the HEAVY HAULER when I bought it as you said it was geared for hills.

It has been years since I ran over geared Death traps. The Currie has working front brakes suitable for 20 mph as well as the 20" Turbo with the 800 watt hub motor on the back. The 20" - 1,500 watt bike geared for 29 mph has BOTH front and rear brakes recently installed at a bike shop and the Giant Roam has working front brakes and brand new back V brakes. I just need the bike shop to hook them up and give it a professional tune up.

I will have more proof that my builds are solid when I shoot some videos. Everything I do is slow and steady. I do not rush any builds any more. I still might get that 1,000 watt hub motor back together eventually.

When things don't go my way I just put them in a corner on time out for awhile instead of getting totally pissed off and smashing them or throwing them out. I have learned a lot and come a long way since starting this post about 7 years ago.

I was scared to even charge LiPo back then. I did manage to solder inside the little walk in closet I use for my new e bike workshop. I just place an air purifier about 6 inches away form the soldering iron and it draws in the smoke, I am thinking about getting a large 300 square foot air purifier and charge LiPo in there as if they do start smoking I can close the door and an air purifier for a large 300 square foot room should take care of the smoke in a 56 square foot closet really quick. Charging in the van is inconvenient.

Thanks.

LC. out.
Attachments
IMG_0433.jpg
IMG_0433.jpg (225.02 KiB) Viewed 486 times
IMG_0434.jpg
IMG_0434.jpg (169.33 KiB) Viewed 486 times
IMG_0435.jpg
IMG_0435.jpg (213.33 KiB) Viewed 485 times
IMG_0436.jpg
IMG_0436.jpg (268.09 KiB) Viewed 477 times
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12159
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Nov 26 2020 5:58am

What is the deal with that 1980's stove and no kitchen cabinets next to it, just a bedroom night stand and tote boxes?
That picture brings me back to basement apartments and rooming houses.

edit
Oh and that carpet, now thats classic bro, an absolute classic. The duct tape is a nice touch. Not only that duct taped carpet, but that red throw carpet with its frayed edges blends in nicely with the duct taped carpet masterpiece and the torn rip. Classic bro.

That last picture, now thats some high class hardwood flooring. Not only that, but are those black zip ties over the left and right displays?

That wiring, classic bro. I think I've pulled that move a few times, but countless times for an inch, but your foot action is tight. Gotta be bullets in housing, Hobbyking style. Almost looks like these that you cut down the middle.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/4mm-hxt-mal ... s_products

Dont forget your A+ on taping the actual wire part. Hey I think we've all been there.

Lets end on a positive note, aside from my jokes your ebike looks good. Black color frame with black colored stuff on it, blends in nicely. Hey, whatever gets your from A to B bro, whatever it takes. I want to see you making videos of riding your builds doing 60mph bro, get errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr done!

DAND214   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3291
Joined: Aug 10 2008 8:28pm
Location: About 1200 miles south of Chicago, in sunny/rainny Port Richey, Florida!

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Nov 26 2020 11:04am

Don't put too much power into the Bikeling hub motors. I did and the clutch or one way bearing started slipping. I did like that little hub but it didn't like how I abused it. Was in a wet field of grass and weeds and when I hit the switch for more power it started slipping. I made it home but unable to get parts to repair it. Now I have MACs.

Good luck with your builds

Dan

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5443
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 26 2020 11:18am

DrkAngel wrote:
Nov 25 2020 4:00pm

Image
48.1V 13Ah battery = same capacity as 22.2V 28.16Ah
latecurtis wrote:
Nov 26 2020 1:52am
As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. looks like a girls bike. :lol: It needs a front basket for Toto
I like the easy on/off of the step-through frame, pretty much a necessity if carrying anything on the rack.
Headlight, taillight and brake light area great safety bonus, to say nothing about the dual oversize disc brakes.
Really need the giant tires for potholes, snow, sand and gravel etc., through quality front suspension.
Love all the wires and cables running through the frame!
Integrated key lock is a nice security enhancement.

Of course, not likely to ever buy one myself, just saying would have been ideal for LC's "needs" ... if he could resist taking it apart?
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
latecurtis   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3610
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 26 2020 12:35pm

What is the deal with that 1980's stove and no kitchen cabinets next to it, just a bedroom night stand and tote boxes?
That picture brings me back to basement apartments and rooming houses.
Was paying 650 a month in NY plus 300 in summer and 400 in winter for electric and gas in upstate NY and kitchen was much worse. Looked like an episode right out of Happy Days. No insulation or modern windows. :roll: This place is around 500 square feet with the closet for my e bike workshop and since is on the third floor am allowed to run a 10,000 BTU AC all summer and have my own gas furnace which I control the heat settings for the winter. 375 bucks a month gas and electric included. :D
That last picture, now thats some high class hardwood flooring. Not only that, but are those black zip ties over the left and right displays?
It is actually linoleum. in the closet / e bike workshop and the kitchen. I obviouslly ruined the floor and will probably get some cheap new large tile and replace all that as well as do some painting to get my security back. However am in no big rush to move out of here any time soon.
Don't put too much power into the Bikeling hub motors. I did and the clutch or one way bearing started slipping. I did like that little hub but it didn't like how I abused it. Was in a wet field of grass and weeds and when I hit the switch for more power it started slipping. I made it home but unable to get parts to repair it. Now I have MACs.
The e bikeling hub motors will never be hooked up to anything but 10S - 36 - 42V packs ever. The entire time I lived here in Ohio up to August - about 14 months I rode a single 500 watt e bikeling motor on a very heavy 27.5" dual suspension but 26" wheels with disk brakes and probably put about 500 - 1,000 miles on it. I pedal assisted up hills and basically took care of it. It is on the rear of the Giant Roam as a helper motor for steep hills as can work with the same motor on the front (700cc wheel) as well as pedal assist up hills. On flat ground I wont need the rear motor. The front motor is 3 to 4 mph faster on flat because of the 700cc wheel.

I have my 20" bike with the 1,800 watt brushless motor but is scary at high speeds so limited it to just under 30 mph with the 1,500 watt controller. It is why I am looking at a 60V - 3,000 watt brushless motor for 4 - 4S - 5 Ah hard case LiPo packs and the Haro V3 - 26" mountain bike for 40 mph.

I still have East Street (the Giant Cypress hybrid 700c bike with no motor now). I was thinking about a high output BMC or MAC for the back of that. It is an easy pedal bike so a GEARED hub is better as zero drag. And I have a 27.5" Silver Dimondback mountain bike I was considering for the cro motor V4 but a 1,500 watt direct drive hub motor is a cheaper option.
I like the easy on/off of the step-through frame, pretty much a necessity if carrying anything on the rack.
Headlight, taillight and brake light area great safety bonus, to say nothing about the dual oversize disc brakes.
Really need the giant tires for potholes, snow, sand and gravel etc., through quality front suspension.
Love all the wires and cables running through the frame!
Integrated key lock is a nice security enhancement.
It does have positive features for an every day commuter. There is a list if features needed to make an e bike legal in all 50 states though and was looking at it. I am considering maybe getting my motorcycle license someday.

DOT approved headlight with high and low beam function
Headlight indicator light visible to the operator to show when the high beam is operating
Battery-powered, DOT approved tail light and brake light (with a switch for both front and rear controls) which must operate for a minimum of 20 minutes with only battery power
DOT approved turn signals for motorcycles manufactured after January 1, 1973 (most states mandate this, but some do not)
Rearview mirror (usually one, but some states require two)
Horn (some states mandate an electric horn)
DOT approved tires installed
Fuel tank should be DOT approved (The FMVSS specifies steel, but almost all states do not enforce this, so it will not be covered)

I may be able to hook up a dimmer switch for my head light for the low beam. I know I have rear view mirrors. One , maybe two.
It would not be really difficult to find a small 250 cc dirt bike frame to start. Perhaps a small 450 cc road legal bike with a blown motor and would already have some or all the features on that list. However for thruway speeds nothing less than the Cro - motor would work and the FX - 75-5 motor would be ideal since I already own it.

I would need to invest about 1,000 in the frame and wiring and the list for a legal bike and 1,000 in batteries. The 45 kilowatt controller came with the motor. I would need to take a test and pass it for a license plate though but then could go any where as it would be classified as a motor vehicle and not an e bike. I do not drink until after midnight anymore so don't need to worry about that.

Not sure if a second stimulus check is on the way or not but thinking about a street legal bike instead of a second vehicle for the summer. Still waiting on newer and better / cheaper battery technology.

What do you think ?

Thanks.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
latecurtis   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3610
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 26 2020 4:40pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l43Kx0OxpKI

I just watched this video and his charger measures the internal resistance of LiPo pack cells. The chargers I have can't do that.

I decided to move the old LiPo packs out in the van. I was going to get a large air purifier but decided not to. It is better and safer to store and charge old Lipo packs outside.

My only question is how to hook up the LiPo charger outside with no AC power. The LiPo chargers work off of 12V right ?

Since I bought a 22 Ah SLA battery I use to run a 120 watt 12V to 110V DC to AC inverter and plug a 1 amp trickle charger in the vans charging port I have a 12V power supply but would be ridiculous and inefficient to use it with the inverter to charge LiPo as I would be converting 12V DC to 110 Ac and converting 110 AC back th 12V DC. I would be wasting like 50% energy converting when I could just hook the liPo charger directly to the 12V SLA and charge the LiPo with no conversion necessary.

Since I own two LiPo chargers I can keep the 200 watt Sky charger inside for 18650 cells and use the 400 watt Mega charger out in the van. My question is should I hook up a switch and a fuse between the positive SLA terminal and the positive going into the Mega charger ? Since I use DC circuit breakers now in my e bike builds I have more than 1 switch and 40 or 50 amp fuses.
IMG_0439.jpg
IMG_0439.jpg (228.24 KiB) Viewed 421 times
Please note that the four - 5 Ah - LiPos WERE hooked up for two 10 Ah and previously run for 44V but being moved 500 miles and two separate storage units the balance wires were damaged and the time I did combine them I scorched two or three balance plugs hooking to Y balance connecters. Also these packs are OLD. I do not think combining them again for two 10 Ah packs is a good idea as if balance charged separate I can see what each cell is doing as two cells will NOT be in parallel.

I can still hook them in parallel for 44V - 10 Ah or 22V - 20 Ah but do not want to deal with parallel balance plugs ever again. I also found my pre hook up cable to avoid large sparks but only useful with the power wires. NOT the balance cables. Another reason why charging separately is better for me. I want to monitor each cell when balance charging and will charge at a low amp. There is no rush. I would consider a parallel board though. Someone sent me one but I butchered all the plugs. :oops: I could solder new bullets to it though. However a parallel board is not the same as separate balance charging when it involves monitoring each cell right ?

Also it will be much better charging a 5 Ah - 6S pack with a 22 Ah - SLA as a power source than attempting to charge a 10 Ah LiPo pack. Since I am not using LiPo that much there is no rush to charge them and if I need to recharge the 22 Ah SLA inside two to four times to charge four 6S LiPo packs from 3.6 or 3.7V per cell to 4.2 it is not a problem for me. Since I will not be running the LiPo below 3.6V per cell the 22 Ah SLA should be good for two 5 Ah 6S LiPos so looking at one recharge inside for the 22 Ah SLA but I could be wrong. DA will know for sure. I remember there was a setting for 4.1V instead of 4.2V. Considering the age of the packs that might be a better option.

With so many bikes , battery packs , controllers and projects I will need to order more 4mm bullets plugs for these LiPos and any future LiPos. I would just like to get some more use from the old packs before retiring them. I plan on four new 4S - 5 Ah packs this winter so I have them in the spring for 60V. Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.
Attachments
IMG_0440.jpg
IMG_0440.jpg (256.55 KiB) Viewed 414 times
Last edited by latecurtis on Nov 26 2020 5:47pm, edited 6 times in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12159
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Nov 26 2020 5:34pm

Ah yes, you make a great point. I have stumbled trying to throw my leg over the top bar, so that step thru action is good. But you lose the triangle to place the battery.

I like fat tires though its a totally different riding feel. Going from 26x3.50 tires to 26x2 and 700x40-50C I found to be (whats the term) wobbly or top heavy, I cant describe it well, that fat tires held upright better, took more handlebar steering effort.

Having a cleaner look of wires running through the bars is good, my go to is electrical tape and if I feel in the mood bend over to tape on the end unto itself for easy finding and removal later. Usually though I dont do that and end up stretching the tape with the wires until the tape breaks, if to lazy to grab a knife.

Taking it apart is the easy part, the motivation to put it back together. LC seems to be that type IMO, but hey I am that type to, many people are that type.

-------------------

LC's crash pad is cheap for upstate NY seems reasonable at 650/m u.s. bills, so 850cdn, then the 300-400 in utility bills is steep. Not sure about there, but here some of the mainstream major apartment companies usually include heat in the rent. Then you pay for electric, phone, cable, internet. The biggies (rental companies) can give you a deal on internet or TV packages, but here its $1000 for a 1bdrm, 1100 for 2bdrm apartment, thats Turdo's peso's so 770 (1bdrm) 850 (2bdrm) in green backs.

Harbor Freight might have lots of light options, that store is like Princess Auto here which has aisles of trinkets, useless electronic crap and lights. Trailers, motorcycles lights.




DrkAngel wrote:
Nov 26 2020 11:18am
I like the easy on/off of the step-through frame, pretty much a necessity if carrying anything on the rack.
Headlight, taillight and brake light area great safety bonus, to say nothing about the dual oversize disc brakes.
Really need the giant tires for potholes, snow, sand and gravel etc., through quality front suspension.
Love all the wires and cables running through the frame!
Integrated key lock is a nice security enhancement.

Of course, not likely to ever buy one myself, just saying would have been ideal for LC's "needs" ... if he could resist taking it apart?

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12159
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Nov 26 2020 5:39pm

Just doing a major cleanup here, got a pile in the garage to take to the dump. I did not realize how many rims I had. I need to find a way to organize all my ebike stuff. I got totes of laptop chargers, Dell server psu's, damaged MW's, power resistors I never used for discharge circuit, tote boxes full of rotors, kick stands, you name it. I purchased a lot from community charity bicycle store, I remember finding a $100 seat and paid them $5 for it. No wonder they went out of business years ago. Scored a Townie fancy rear rack for $5 worth at least $50. Throwing away a few bicycles. The Townie Electra with its top tube cracked, Norco Santiago is rideable just the bb was misthreaded but still can pedal, I just dont like that 2nd top bar as it hinders battery space. An old CCM I never did anything with. Down to one bike now, always looking for a used bicycle, theres some good deals out there.

User avatar
latecurtis   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3610
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 26 2020 5:54pm

I moved to Ohio. I live in Canton in this place you saw the pictures of. NY state is very expensive except for the Niagara falls area and south of Buffalo close to PA. Around where DA lives. Erie PA and central and Sothern / eastern Ohio is cheap. Michigan is like eastern NY. Sky high.

Anyway I need to order bullets and hope someone will read my post on the LiPos as would like to know if I am on the right track.

Please let me know.

I am full of food.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5443
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 26 2020 11:59pm

Should have kept the "old" lipo permanently paralleled, like I recommended years ago! (consider as single 10Ahs, for charging and use)
Would have saved lots of separate charges and screw ups from constant connects\disconnects.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
latecurtis   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3610
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 27 2020 12:51am

hould have kept the "old" lipo permanently paralleled, like I recommended years ago! (consider as single 10Ahs, for charging and use)
Would have saved lots of separate charges and screw ups from constant connects\disconnects.
IMG_0441.jpg
IMG_0441.jpg (262.65 KiB) Viewed 384 times
Yea. I got really tired about a half an hour after dinner like usual after a big holiday meal. I had to take a two and a half hour nap but got up in time to make the beer store before the 10 PM COVID curfew which am not sure is real or not but so I have been told. I watched a movie and then hooked that up.

I am really happy about it. I did not have to cut the wires coming from the charger. I found a couple of connecters that are for crimping two wires together. I was able to stick the wire all the way through and plug the charger cable in to it. It was a tight fit and the tape is only because bare wire was sticking out as was longer than the connecter.
IMG_0442.jpg
IMG_0442.jpg (270.42 KiB) Viewed 384 times
Those old LiPos got moved around a lot. In both storages. When I had storage here I was there several times and they got moved about a half a dozen times.

I think they came unhooked in NY as I built a platform and had about 10 bikes and frames about 5 feet off the floor with 4 by 8 pieces of wood and 2 by 4s across two dressers. The cash box with the LiPos were on the platform and the wires exposed. When I went to get a bike part I snagged the balance cables. It is why they are tied back now.

I know that DA knows a lot more than I do as went farther is college as I am an under graduate. HOWEVER I really do not understand how it is possible to detect a bad LiPo cell if it is in parallel with a healthy one. It just don't comprehend in my mind.

Before , two 5 AH cells were paralleled for 10Ah and the other two also. I had a pre hook up cable I believe DA helped me create. It is a couple radio shack resisters in series and an alligator clip on both ends. It works perfect with parallel or series connections for the power wires however mentioned several times I had big sparks and scorched balance connecters hooking those in parallel.

Nobody had a solution for that so that is two good reasons why I would rather balance charge them separate. Also a third reason which is related to the first is as packs get old and have been stored at all different temperatures for extended periods of time eventually it will come a time to retire the packs but since there are four packs they could fail one at a time a few months apart.

My plans are if all 4 packs are healthy then I will run them at 44V. When I have to retire one pack then I will still have 22V and 15 Ah. Then 10Ah if a second pack fails. I don't see how that is possible if parallel charging two at a time but if you could explain it that would be great because I am curious.

As far as connecting and disconnecting I plug / plugged in power bullet extensions as well as balance extensions so the original wires wont suffer all the wear and tear. Also I am not going to be running them all the time. I have the 10P - 10S old lithium ion pack and the 10S - 8P new pack and plan on ordering four - 4S LiPos for 60V so these old packs will only be run once in awhile if I need to run a controller from 48 - 44V. That might not be that often. Also if / when they are combined for 24 - 22V That wont be often either.

I will be charging LiPo out in the van soon. I need to make a charging station out there though so the packs and charger are not bouncing around when I am driving. I have to move bike parts up here for enough room though. It will be a fun project.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12159
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Nov 27 2020 4:13am

Hey, its free rent!


https://semi-rad.com/2018/08/a-quick-st ... the-river/
Clipboard02222.jpg
Clipboard02222.jpg (34.77 KiB) Viewed 370 times

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5443
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 27 2020 7:52am

latecurtis wrote:
Nov 27 2020 12:51am
mentioned several times I had big sparks and scorched balance connectors hooking those in parallel.
I have tried to explain, many times ...
Balance charge each 6s - 1st time only!
Parallel power and balance wires as permanent pairs (balanced charged to identical voltages at cell level, so there will be no sparks when connecting!)
Use as single 10Ah battery.
Charge or balance charge as single 10Ah batteries.

Balance wires keep all paralleled cells at equal voltages, keeping any voltage (capacity) difference buffered throughout discharges and during fairly prolonged charges.

Food for thought!
6s = 12s
6s (22.2V) Lipo is a very noticeable performance degradation from 24V
12s (44.4V) Lipo is a very noticeable performance degradation from 48V
I went 7s on my 24V ebikes, tried 6s a couple times and suffered a tragic loss of performance!
Similarly, 12s (44.V) for 48V motors seems pitiful compared to 13s (48.1V) but pushes nicely to 14s (51.8V) for a noticeable boon.

I push even higher, to 15s (55.5V), but limit charge to 60V = 4.0V/cell for increased performance with 400% battery life.
61.5V = 4.10V/cell max charge to insure not exceeding 63V cap limitation = 200% battery lifespan.

My extreme performance and lifespan mod - ("36V")
10s >> 11s upgrade
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
latecurtis   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3610
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 27 2020 3:09pm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ISDT-Q6-Pro-Ba ... Swd~ZbhCna
download (4).png
download (4).png (183.41 KiB) Viewed 343 times

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l43Kx0OxpKI

Not sure if any of you watched the video but the first thing this guy said was "you are going to learn something today"

He was telling the truth because I did not know there was a charger that measures the internal resistance of the cells in a LiPo battery.

Once it is established that they are really close to the cells in a second pack as well as the voltages after being charged to full for 24 hours then and only then should they be paralleled up and treated as a single pack.

For safety purposes I put all four packs in a LiPo bag and placed the bag inside a metal cash box which is great as it can't catch anything on fire but unless you are superman with X ray vision there is no possible way to tell if one of the packs puff up.

That is where this particular charger comes into play. If a pack puffs up my bet is it will have a higher internal resistance than the other healthy cells. Therefore superman has nothing over this charger.

I will need that as well as a bunch of 4 mm bullets and Y balance connecters if I choose to combine them again. If I do plan on hooking the balance extensions to a Y balance cable the cells will need to be VERY CLOSE like less than 0.02V difference, 0.03V and above may cause a spark but will do extensive research on paralleling packs for balance charging.

Basically I see voltage different and opposite then DA does in SPECIAL SITUTATIONS. I see a performance upgrade by lowering the voltage. For example if I were to hook up a 10S pack to a 2,750 rpm - 800W 36V motor running a 80T wheel sprocket I get.
download (5).png
download (5).png (27.45 KiB) Viewed 338 times
It is noticeably OVERGEARED right ?????

Now hook up an 8S pack or two 4S hard-shell LiPos in series for 666.6 watts and you get
download (6).png
download (6).png (27.48 KiB) Viewed 338 times
That should be a noticeable difference up hills.

Like I said in Special circumstances. If you have a choice to go with a larger motor sprocket then this logic would not apply.

The Schwinn I built has those specs. There is an 89 tooth - #25 sprocket which would help or he could just swap motors and take a chance with the 1,000W MY1020 motor I soldered which would get him 24 mph @ 750W - 10S - 2,250 rpm but we all know my solder history and he don't want to order a new sprocket but the new sprocket is what I told him to do. I am just using it as an example. If he were to order the 89 tooth he could use 8S LiPo or approx. 32V awhile he is waiting for the larger sprocket to be delivered.

Also for my radical future builds I am betting if I were to run two controllers with the 3,000W - 4800 rpm motor , It will suck up a big hill @ 52V and 2,600W with 40 mph gearing. If out on a road trip 10 or 20 miles on a country road I could stop and switch to a 10S - 42 - 36V pack and get a performance boost as the lower voltage would change the gearing to make the system more efficient up the big hill. :D

Either way I like the versatility of using 4S LiPo. Four of them gives me a choice of running 8S - 12S or 16S :D and also would much rather parallel charge packs with a parallel board especially with anti spark connections. I think it would be a much better way than hooking packs up in parallel and treat them as a single pack. I would rather check internal voltage of each cell first every time with that charger and then if they all pass the test use a parallel board to charge all four packs instead of combining them.

DAs method is great also but only with brand new packs that are of quality trusted brand. Not some off the wall cheap e bay packs. or the high Quality packs I got which have been laying around for years and already past 50% capacity. They are quality and I think Turnegy but NOT hard shell. Hopefully I can still get some use from them. That is why I will stick to Turnegy or Multistar hard shell. I learned my lesson buying cheaper lower quality cells from e bay. They failed miserably and got disposed of back in NY and the packs Dan sent me are still good but will know for sure when I get that new charger and measure the internal resistance. I am not doing anything with them until then.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12159
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Nov 27 2020 5:29pm

You need to remember that any calculation that involves Battery IR must also take into account the losses on wires from charger to battery.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60169&p=900636&hil ... es#p900636

User avatar
latecurtis   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3610
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 27 2020 5:45pm

I have been clearing out bike parts from the van. I was thinking about a vacuum sealed box for charging LiPo to remove any smoke if there was a fire however learned that the oxygen supply to cause combustion is NOT external but the result of chemical reactions inside the cell. Therefore only a container which has a vent to the outside will work.

Since I am NOT cutting a hole in the roof of the van the best alternative is to use a large metal enclosure with minimal venting and an air purifier inside the box operating when the LiPos are charging and on all the time when the van is moving. Also placing the container in the rear of the van and NOT towards the front where a driver or passenger will sit as this van will only have 1 or two people (only using front seats) This will assure that a worse case scenario would be a strange odor and will be able to roll down both front windows if in traffic and unable to stop the vehicle , get out , and open the back door.

I may as well order a second 22 Ah - SLA like the one I have so one can run the air purifier and the other the charger. This would also give me 24V if I were to want to hook it up to a 24V controller and run an e bike. This would also give me an option for really steep hills as my 1,800 watt brushless motor or a 3 kilowatt motor would be 1/2 the rpm or less. It would be either 1,500 RPMs @ 900 watts or 2,400 RPMs @ 1,200 watts. Perfect for steep hills. The problem would be finding a 24V brushless controller. Not sure if it exists but I own two 24V 500 watt brush controllers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/24-Aluminum-Tr ... SwOxtfsyPG
download (7).png
download (7).png (338.63 KiB) Viewed 310 times
I would need to drill a small hole for the charging wire to go inside as I would not want the charger or SLA inside the box to prevent damage if something happened.

I know it is overkill but will also need to install the cash box on a rear bike rack as if it starts smoking awhile I am riding , it will happen behind me so I won't have to breath any of the smoke in.

It might seem like overkill but I want the 4S hard-shell LiPo packs and might order 8 of those and parallel them up like DA said for 4 10 Ah packs. If I lived in a big house with a separate two car garage or ventilated attic or basement that would be ideal for charging LiPo but I doubt I will find that for $375 all utilities included.

Thanks.

LC. out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Nov 27 2020 6:04pm, edited 3 times in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12159
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Nov 27 2020 5:54pm

Ammo box, with latch loose

DAND214   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3291
Joined: Aug 10 2008 8:28pm
Location: About 1200 miles south of Chicago, in sunny/rainny Port Richey, Florida!

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Nov 27 2020 6:01pm

I'm rather sure the charger I sent you has that option. You need to find the option in the manual or on line. I know my Ichargers and the 30a charger from HobbyKing has it. the internal resistor done on all those chargers are not really accurate but useful.

Using a parallel board is the same as doing it with the cables you already have. maybe a little neater but just the same.

I still have and have used the same packs I sent you a few years ago. Series 18s 2p and it got 26 miles out of a 12t MAC. With a top speed of just 30mph, Higher Voltage was King when you have the correct gearing. I wouldn't try to run my 8t MAAC full throttle on 66.6 volts. Too fast and it would over heat too soon. All done on 26" wheel and 2.5 tire so as big as my wife's 700c bike wheel.

Dan

User avatar
latecurtis   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3610
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 27 2020 6:18pm

Yea. I got at least half my second stimulus check spent and don't even know for sure if we are even getting it.
Last edited by latecurtis on Feb 11 2021 6:54pm, edited 1 time in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12159
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Nov 27 2020 11:00pm

But does he ride an ebike?

User avatar
latecurtis   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3610
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 28 2020 4:42pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Two controllers 1 for hills and 1 for top speed on flat.
download (3).png
download (3).png (242.35 KiB) Viewed 269 times
https://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-1000W-Brus ... SwbVhe4Lwj


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brushless-Elec ... 0008.m2219


download (2).png
download (2).png (233.03 KiB) Viewed 274 times


Top speed on flat with 16S - LiPo
download (1).png
download (1).png (26.96 KiB) Viewed 274 times
download.png
download.png (36.24 KiB) Viewed 274 times
I should be able to build a 6S - 10P - 60 cell lithium ion pack for going up steep hills. It would only require a separate DC breaker and a second thumb throttle on the left and I could just switch off the 60V controller and plug the power wires in the 24V controller. I should be ok on small hills that are not steep as can attack the hills and pedal assist but if I hear the motor straining on a big hill I can stop and switch to 24V in about 1 minute. :mrgreen:

If I order the 72V - 4,900 rpm 3 kilowatt motor separate instead of in a kit I could get a 48 - 60V variable controller as at 48V it would be more efficient on the flat and run the 16S - LiPos for a 40 mph top speed. I could use a 1,500W 36V brushless controller for hills and run one of my 36V packs, the 72V - 3,000W - 4,900 rpm motor. is a better option at any voltage less than 65V.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/72V-DC-Motor-B ... %3A2334524
download (5).png
download (5).png (142.91 KiB) Viewed 267 times
download (4).png
download (4).png (32.65 KiB) Viewed 266 times
download (6).png
download (6).png (35.74 KiB) Viewed 263 times
I will be ordering the motor from e bay and the custom 80T sprocket and freewheel clutch from electric scooter parts on the 3rd of December. It will be a Christmas present to myself. :D I can wait until January for the two controllers. I already have 8 mm chain and a chain breaker. I also have a crash helmet the guy downstairs gave me. Wiping out at around 40 mph sounds really painful. I will try to avoid that if possible. :roll: I would rather skip any hospital trips if I can.
IMG_0443.jpg
IMG_0443.jpg (302.81 KiB) Viewed 258 times
Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

Post Reply