Streetfighter/Sportbike build

kuoppis

10 mW
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
32
Hi all

I figured its time to start my own build thread now since i have some pictures to share. I have been lurking around this forum since this spring and gathering information from all of your wonderful builds. The orginal idea to build my own bike came from a friend of mine who said that motorcycle laws here in Finland have been changed in 2016 to make it easier for hobbyist to build and custom their own bikes. The Finnish Transport and Communications Agency "Traficom" is giving hobbyist frame numbers and after inspection they can be made road legal, ofcourse everything needs to be in order and there is a list of things which need to be passed.

So i figured i want to build (mostly) my own bike and not to do a conversion.

This summer i bought a Yamaha XJ600S from local scrapyard for 500€. It was not in working condition but it had a steel frame and some parts i would use.
XJ600S.jpg

I wanted to disassemble the bike in working condition if i wanted to use the motor for something or sell it. No spark so after cheking the wires and plugs i found that the ECU was placed wires sticking up and because of that it was full of water. After drying still no spark so i bought a used ECU for 35€ and it started. I drove around a little and then disassembled the bike.

Some parts im gonna use:
Head tube
Front fork and wheel
Rear swing and part of the frame where it attaches
Brakes
Some other small parts


Electric parts:
24s Prismatic Lifepo4 90Ah cells
QSmotor 12kW 6" hubmotor
450A ANT bms
Nucular 24F
TC Elcon 1,8kW onboard charger
Meanwell RSD-100D-12 Insulated 12v DC-DC converter

I have all of this stuff ordered and some of it have arrived.

Early sketches: (yeah i know snipping tool exists, i wanted it fast on my phone)
Sketch.jpg
Batteryboxscetch.jpg


I am currently building the frame and its coming together quite nicely:
Frame1.jpg
Frame2.jpg
Frame3.jpg
Batterybox.jpg

I will take better pictures later.
Lot to do still and i am planning on making fiberglass fairings.
I have a goal to finish this before next summer, so in around 6 months.
 
hey Bro
looks resistant your frame
wish I could just go and cut&weld on the frame
here in GER the frame must be original to get it streetlegal without huzzle

perhaps you saw my EZUKI approach in the same forum
I also looked at Nucular 24F, but my batteries spit out over 90V

I wonder how you gonne manage that?
What voltage do you plan to drive?

kuoppis said:
Electric parts:
24s Prismatic Lifepo4 90Ah cells
QSmotor 12kW 6" hubmotor
450A ANT bms
Nucular 24F

what model is your hubmotor exactly?
6'' ?
the vendor told me that they dont sell the 12Kw any more, how did you get it?
Do you plan to use rear brakesor only regen-rear?
best
m
 
maSch said:
hey Bro
looks resistant your frame
wish I could just go and cut&weld on the frame
here in GER the frame must be original to get it streetlegal without huzzle

perhaps you saw my EZUKI approach in the same forum
I also looked at Nucular 24F, but my batteries spit out over 90V

I wonder how you gonne manage that?
What voltage do you plan to drive?

kuoppis said:
Electric parts:
24s Prismatic Lifepo4 90Ah cells
QSmotor 12kW 6" hubmotor
450A ANT bms
Nucular 24F

what model is your hubmotor exactly?
6'' ?
the vendor told me that they dont sell the 12Kw any more, how did you get it?
Do you plan to use rear brakesor only regen-rear?
best
m

Hi

In Finland it was made possible to hobbyist build their own frames, it is said you need to convience the inspector that your frame is strong enough by showing him what tubing was used and how it was welded etc. I think the law was changed to support hobbyist chopper builders.
Here are some info. Couldnt find it in english but maybe this will help finnish user on this forum:
Form for getting your own framenumber:
https://www.traficom.fi/sites/default/files/media/file/C512_W.pdf
Information on what will be checked in inspection:
https://www.traficom.fi/sites/default/files/media/file/Vaatimustenmukaisuuden%20osoittaminen%20rekister%C3%B6intikatsastuksessa.pdf

With LiFePo4 voltage of the cell is little lower so having 24 in series i will have voltage nominal 72V and it fluctuates between 67,2V and 86,4V
(2,8V-3,6V per cell)

The hub motor i am using is this one:
QS Motor 12000W 17X6.0inch 12KW 70H V4
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001212119862.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.1bae4c4dvYX0og

The law requires rear brake so im going with both; pedal operated rear brake and regen. I would like variable regen if i find a throttle which twist also forward to vary regen. I know about vectrix throttle but its quite expensive.

I been following your EZUKI project and its looking good! Especially the torque arm which i have to machine also when my motor arrives.
 
I will go with nucular, if i want more power later i will find something else. Batteries and motor should be able to handle more power.


AussieRider said:
You could use the clutch lever for regen couldn't you?

AussieRider

Using clutch lever could be an option for regen. I will think about it.

Pentti M Reku said:
Looks like a cool project. Any weight estimates? What is your plan for EMC testing?

The orginal XJ600s weighs about 200kg so im somewhere close to that since the old engine weighs around 70-80kg. And replacing it with battery that weighs around 50kg and hubmotor 25kg.

EMC is the hardest part. I emc testing have been done by the manufacturer for hubmotor, charger and dc-dc converter. Those and grounding everything is hopefully enough to "satisfy" the inspector.


Here is a better picture of the build. I am currently building the battery pack and waiting some parts to arrive to finish welding the tail.
IMG_6619-1.jpg
 
ah, you are in Finland. What a dream to have some exception to get that streetlegal.
mistakes I made:
- trying to mount the HubMotor Rim without mounted tire. found out later that there is not enough room to mount it with the tire on.
- axle-length vs swing-arm drop outs. due to the original chain-drive the swing arms are often asymmetrical. the hub-motor axle might need to be asymetrical, too.
just my 2 cents
 
maSch said:
ah, you are in Finland. What a dream to have some exception to get that streetlegal.
mistakes I made:
- trying to mount the HubMotor Rim without mounted tire. found out later that there is not enough room to mount it with the tire on.
- axle-length vs swing-arm drop outs. due to the original chain-drive the swing arms are often asymmetrical. the hub-motor axle might need to be asymetrical, too.
just my 2 cents

Thanks for the tips!

I will definitely have a tire on when mounting the rim, i fear i might scratch paint the rim without tire.

I will have to look closer my swing, it seems symmetrical to naked eye. Anyway im gonna 3D print the dropout adapters/torque plate before getting machined ones. Also the swing is made of steel and back ends are open tubes, i will lenghten it with the adapters. Similiar to to swiftyds build: http://52.25.253.50//forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=101797#p1540814
 
Hope you get the plates so it will be legal. Cutting and welding frame is a no go in Norway. Only way to ever get a modified frame street legal is to have Tüv approval from Germany. Costly, and time consuming.
 
Hi

Not much has happened i've been busy with other things. Got hubmotor and a tire on it. Some progress with assembling the battery pack.
IMG_6681-1.jpg
IMG_6682-1.jpg
 
I've been designing adapters between swing and the motor. It seems to be good. I printed it and it fits perfectly to my swing. What do you guys think would aluminium handle the torque?
adapterit1.PNG
IMG_6698-1.jpg


Started wiring battery. Still waiting for some components.
IMG_6689-1.jpg
 
kuoppis said:
I've been designing adapters between swing and the motor. It seems to be good. I printed it and it fits perfectly to my swing. What do you guys think would aluminium handle the torque?
adapterit1.PNG

From my experience I dont think so. We made something similar on a 8KW motor at first using steel and it wasn't enough. Itworks fine at first, then after a few cycles of high accelerations and high regen brakings it starts to move and grind itstelf.

You need to clamp the axle on the largest available spot, there should be a wider area a little bit closer to the motor on the left side. You're almost there with your design, but don't only clamp the thin part of the shaft. (sorry if my explanation is not very clear, I'll try to make a drawing if you don't understand what I'm talking about).
That's what we've done and in this case we just used a clamp made of 7075 aluminum, still works fine two years later.

Very nice build BTW, I somehow missed it. Keep up the good work!
 
Dui said:
kuoppis said:
I've been designing adapters between swing and the motor. It seems to be good. I printed it and it fits perfectly to my swing. What do you guys think would aluminium handle the torque?
adapterit1.PNG

From my experience I dont think so. We made something similar on a 8KW motor at first using steel and it wasn't enough. Itworks fine at first, then after a few cycles of high accelerations and high regen brakings it starts to move and grind itstelf.

You need to clamp the axle on the largest available spot, there should be a wider area a little bit closer to the motor on the left side. You're almost there with your design, but don't only clamp the thin part of the shaft. (sorry if my explanation is not very clear, I'll try to make a drawing if you don't understand what I'm talking about).
That's what we've done and in this case we just used a clamp made of 7075 aluminum, still works fine two years later.

Very nice build BTW, I somehow missed it. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for your input. I've read that there should be wider part on the axle and that was my plan to use it but there is not anything on either side of the wheel. Axle thread flats are the only place i can clamp to. The design i am using is the widest possible to fit axle nut on each side, around 27mm available space for clamps leaves just enough thread to fit normal nut.
Any other suggestions?

I also thought about tightening a nuts to inner ends of the axle and make a hexagon shaped adapter to clamp on those nuts.

Also the axle is different from 8kW motor. Its M22 compared to M18. The threads seem to be longer 45mm on each side.
I dont own a 8kW motor and im just looking at the drawings on qs motor site.
 
A small update, as i am waiting for adapters being made at local workshop i finished the battery and started wiring everything together.
IMG_6776-1.jpg
IMG_6777-1.jpg
IMG_6778-1.jpg

I will have soon to start making fairings. I think glassfibre is my only option since my 3D printer is small. Never made anything with glassfibre before.. going to be interesting.
 
Very impressive! I like the build so far!

Do you have a wiring diagram for the motor, battery and controller?

One small suggestion. I would consider adding a frame cross brace right behind your electronics box to keep the upper frame from spreading under load. It would also help to box in your control box.



I'll definitely be watching this build.
 
JimVonBaden said:
Very impressive! I like the build so far!

Do you have a wiring diagram for the motor, battery and controller?

One small suggestion. I would consider adding a frame cross brace right behind your electronics box to keep the upper frame from spreading under load. It would also help to box in your control box.



I'll definitely be watching this build.

I have a very grude version of the wiring diagram, some on paper rest is in my head :lol: electric side of this bike is definitely where im good at.

Do you think i need that cross brace? Does it seem like that would be weak spot? Frame feels very solid and upper frame is 40mm 2,5mm thick structural steel pipe.
 
Finally got adapters for rear wheel. Also brake caliber holder welded to swingarm. Build is taking shape, missing some wiring and miscellaneous stuff.
IMG_6839-1.jpg
IMG_6840-.jpg
IMG_6842-2.jpg
 
That looks promising.

But why do you let the seat go up so high in the back?
For solo driving you dont need a 2 person seat-and with a second person this will bring the weight too much up, in my opinion...

And an idea about regen:
In my build, I am thinking about using the handle bar levers for front and rear brake.
(ex clutch lever -> rear brake)
So the foot brake pedal could be used for regen.
 
Elektrosherpa said:
That looks promising.

But why do you let the seat go up so high in the back?
For solo driving you dont need a 2 person seat-and with a second person this will bring the weight too much up, in my opinion...

And an idea about regen:
In my build, I am thinking about using the handle bar levers for front and rear brake.
(ex clutch lever -> rear brake)
So the foot brake pedal could be used for regen.

Seat maybe too high for passenger, will see. It will go lower on once there is weight on it ofcourse. I occassionally need the passenger seat for my girlfriend so thats why its two seater :mrgreen: If the weight is too much i will upgrade controller since that motor and battery can be used for higher power.

I will be using clutch lever for regen, i already have that handy chinese potentiometer for it. I have had motorbikes in the past and want those brakes where i am used to.

My main consern right now is glass fibre and making fairings. Never done it before so i hope i have read enough to know how to.
 
Yes its been half a year i am not good at posting updates. But last weekend was awesome, i got my frame and stuff back from painter and assembled the bike, took couple accelerations on a side street. Noticed that 300A was too much for my battery and bms cut due to voltage sag, lowered the max on controller to 270A, needs further testing still.
Oh and i did get my Nuc 24f and tried it, nothing wrong with it but then came far driver controllers which were perfect on my build and got one of those ND721800. Setup was easy and I am running 900 phase amps and 270 battery amps now as i do not know how much phase amps the 12kW QS can take. The nanjing bluetooth app does not let me choose the right temp sensor so it thinks my motor is 100C°( i guess i have to wait for update or try with android phone). It does accelerate like a beast with bike weighing around 180kg plus my ass 75kg.

Next up is the registration process everything should be in order for that. Got my frame number during spring from Traficom and the bike will be named "VK Spark" VK being my initials.
I also do have side and top panels done out of fiberglass but they do require lots of work before they can be painted. Tail also needs black paint. Panels will be finished during winter as it takes so much time.

IMG_7240.jpg
IMG_7241.jpg
IMG_7242.jpg
IMG_7244.jpg
IMG_7245_LI.jpg
IMG_7246.jpg
IMG_7247.jpg
 
file.php


is that a phenolic fuse? might not have the proper voltage rating
 
Cool that you are getting this street legal. That should be a very strong frame. I liked the look of the bike. Like a fighter style. Cool cool. Why did you go for the hub motor over a mid drive?

maSch said:
hey Bro
looks resistant your frame
wish I could just go and cut&weld on the frame
here in GER the frame must be original to get it streetlegal without huzzle

AFAIK in Germany you do pretty much anything to the frame as long as you get the build validated and approved by the TüV. But of course there are still rules and guidelines not to mention added cost for the TüV approval. Do you know if this is still the case in Germany or have there been any changes made to that, say within past 3 or 4 years?
 
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