Are footpegs superior if you don't pedal?

markz said:
Remember that going 1kph/mph over the limit is illegal too, yet 100% of everyone does it anyways.
Click to expand...

True, but don't forget the penalty for going 1 km/h over is like $20 max, then penalty for having a 15kw motor could run you over $20K (licence, insurance, registration, plates, horn, signals, lights, safety check, towing, impound, storage). It's crazy how many fines they can throw at you if a cop decides it's a motor vehicle here in Ontario.
 
When I used to ride a motorcycle, I liked floorboards, as an alternative to pegs.
 
markz said:
Just throw 'em a donut or 12!

furcifer said:
..
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I got busted by the OPP when I was like 16 for riding a dirt bike along the side of the road. At the time it was like $250 for no insurance and $75 a pop for plates, horn, signals etc. Plus it got towed and I had to sign the ownership over. And this was out in the county, back roads, fields and what not. I tried to fight it but the cop lied and said I was on the road when I was actually in the ditch, on the wrong side of the road when he saw me.
If I knew then what I know now I would have run. :mrgreen:
 
benjamin84 said:
Old thread - but I recently swapped the pedals on my Q140MD for footpegs, and it was absolutely brilliant. I only ride in the forest, so I'm not so worried about what people think as long as the bike is silent.
Click to expand...

I shall also revive this thread from the dead -- where did you get them from and how'd you convert them in? I can't seem to find a lot of resources/kits for doing this conversion.
 
chuyskywalker said:
benjamin84 said:
Old thread - but I recently swapped the pedals on my Q140MD for footpegs, and it was absolutely brilliant. I only ride in the forest, so I'm not so worried about what people think as long as the bike is silent.
Click to expand...

I shall also revive this thread from the dead -- where did you get them from and how'd you convert them in? I can't seem to find a lot of resources/kits for doing this conversion.
Click to expand...
Qulbix Make their own set - it just replaces the crank bearings with a through bolt and a set of footpegs. Can't find a link to it, but send them an e-mail and they can sort you out :) Pretty sure it would work on other bottom brackets of the same dimensions too.
 
Fitting foot pegs on crank arms is kind of weird. Platform pedals are much more comfortable. Using the BB shell to fit pegs is logical but very unlikely to place them at the ideal spot if it is a simple straight mount. My guess for most frames would be to fit them 4’’ lower than the BB shell, and it would be practical to manage a 2’’ f/r adjustment slot to make them tunable for balance.
 
MadRhino said:
My guess for most frames
Click to expand...

Bicycle frames, that is, am I right? For an electric scooter, the principles behind bicycle ergonomics are somewhat misplaced. For an ideal ride, some kind of moped frame would probably work a whole lot better. Maybe one of those mini-motos that were popular a few years back - big city hoodlums were using them to escape the police, if I remember right - excellent for sneaking through traffic.
 
I'm not sure if there are other footpegs on the market but qulbix worked well on my bottom bracket. They also seemed to be in a very good spot I did not have any issues with the bottom bracket location for footpegs.

The only issue with the qulbix and I've told qulbix about the issue is that unless you use a serrated washer, they may slip on the bottom bracket. My footpegs which were just clamped through the bottom bracket would slip without the serrated washer. You can see why because by clamping on footpegs, its just metal to metal and will slip a little and start turning.

This is what I bought, lucky I still have the picture. These worked perfectly to stop any movement in the footpegs. They are serrated and concave to really hold on tight. I did a lot of research at the time to find something that would work and found this as the solution.

This is a Spring serrated belleville washer.
fbPcOEJ.jpg


You can see I used white out to check for movement. These things didn't budge with those washers. They would always twist without the washer no matter how tight I made the bolts.
56McBLu.jpg
 
Thanks, I gave qulbix a holler and they do still sell it off-list. About $120 for the pegs and adapters (likely plus a bit more for shipping). Couldn't find a direct order source for the serrated washers, though -- but belleville has a website I could reach out to.
 
chuyskywalker said:
Thanks, I gave qulbix a holler and they do still sell it off-list. About $120 for the pegs and adapters (likely plus a bit more for shipping). Couldn't find a direct order source for the serrated washers, though -- but belleville has a website I could reach out to.
Click to expand...

Any fastener store should have them, I forget the common name. I dont recognize Schnorr. But its definitely been talked about here on ES.

Disc Spring Washer, Locking Washers

I see some posts saying Nord, NordLock.

Heres a cool video
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=93729&p=1374470&hilit=Locking+Washers#p1374470
 
I decided on the schnorr because they are not only serrated, but they are also concave or slightly bent so they apply pressure. Being the washer is concave/bent and applying pressure, it will help from the bolts loosening up or losing tension. You have to deal with two issues here, spinning, and also the bolts loosening up. I really liked how the schnorr applied tension, you can feel it when you tighten up the bolts, that tension really holds things together nicely.

The nord-lock washers are just serrated. They may still work, I don't know.

You maybe fine with any lock nut washer, may even just a regular serrated washer. You will have to try it out. I just know at the time I had big issues with spinning, and decided on the schnorr and they worked 100% and never came loose.
 
Does anyone have a link for motorcycle pegs that can bolt into the bottom bracket housing? I’ve tried googling both of the pegs suggested in this thread but can find nothing. All I can see is a bunch of DIY stuff. There Has to be a company that sells motorcycle pegs for bottom brackets housing?
 
ebike4healthandfitness said:
lowers center of gravity for better handling.
Click to expand...

Stop spreading this nonsense. Low center of mass might help in a car or other multi-track vehicle, but it's not something that inherently makes a bike better. Witness lowracer recumbents (super low center of mass, terrible handling) versus sporting road bikes (high center of mass, great handling).

Bikes tilt around their center of mass. When it's too close to the ground, stability suffers greatly.
 
Yep. That is a common misconception. Low center of gravity does help controlling the balance of a bike at very low speed or standstill. It does act as a lever, by tempering the effect of the rider’s weight shifting. In other words, on a low COG bike, counterbalancing is slowed down for you need to move your weight further away from the center line to produce a counterbalancing effect, giving you more time and precision in this process. This is making it much easier and precise to control balance at standstill, but produces a dangerous delay in high speed maneuvers.

High COG does produce the opposite, making it much more difficult to control the bike’s balance at low speed, but improving the high speed handling considerably. Just compare a Trial motorcycle with a GP racing bike, both highly optimized for their specialty task yet completely opposite in balance design.

When riding fast, the last thing you want is slowing down the effect of weight shifting, because speed does create a momentum that is fighting against weight shifting already. The handling delay caused by low COG is likely to send you off track at the most critical moment, or make it impossible to swerve away from a crash course.
 
MadRhino said:
Yep. That is a common misconception. Low center of gravity does help controlling the balance of a bike at very low speed or standstill. It does act as a lever, by tempering the effect of the rider’s weight shifting. In other words, on a low COG bike, counterbalancing is slowed down for you need to move your weight further away from the center line to produce a counterbalancing effect, giving you more time and precision in this process. This is making it much easier and precise to control balance at standstill, but produces a dangerous delay in high speed maneuvers.

High COG does produce the opposite, making it much more difficult to control the bike’s balance at low speed, but improving the high speed handling considerably. Just compare a Trial motorcycle with a GP racing bike, both highly optimized for their specialty task yet completely opposite in balance design.

When riding fast, the last thing you want is slowing down the effect of weight shifting, because speed does create a momentum that is fighting against weight shifting already. The handling delay caused by low COG is likely to send you off track at the most critical moment, or make it impossible to swerve away from a crash course.
Click to expand...

One thing that you and Chalo are no factoring in it's the width of the tire. On racing motorcycles they compensate for higher center of gravity by increasing the width of the tire. On bicycles we are limited in how wide of a tire we can run.
 
ebike4healthandfitness said:
One thing that you and Chalo are no factoring in it's the width of the tire. On racing motorcycles they compensate for higher center of gravity by increasing the width of the tire. On bicycles we are limited in how wide of a tire we can run.
Click to expand...

That, is not a common misconception. Only distorted logic. Ideal tire width is chosen for many reasons, but helping the rider to balance the bike is not one of them. In fact, using too wide a tire has more negative effect than too narrow. The main selection factor is weight, then terrain and speed. No ebike but a slow deep dirt bike, is heavy and fast enough to benefit from tires wider than 3’’, and that benefit has nothing to do with balance.
 
MadRhino said:
ebike4healthandfitness said:
One thing that you and Chalo are no factoring in it's the width of the tire. On racing motorcycles they compensate for higher center of gravity by increasing the width of the tire. On bicycles we are limited in how wide of a tire we can run.
Click to expand...

That, is not a common misconception. Only distorted logic. Ideal tire width is chosen for many reasons, but helping the rider to balance the bike is not one of them. In fact, using too wide a tire has more negative effect than too narrow. The main selection factor is weight, then terrain and speed. No ebike but a slow deep dirt bike, is heavy and fast enough to benefit from tires wider than 3’’, and that benefit has nothing to do with balance.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Tire width is unrelated, except inasmuch as big tires lower and spread out the overall mass (and thus have a negative effect on maneuvering).

I could ride much slower on my tallbike than on a normal bike before the ride became wobbly. That was useful when waiting for a light to change.

tallride4~2.jpg
 
Chalo said:
ebike4healthandfitness said:
lowers center of gravity for better handling.
Click to expand...

Stop spreading this nonsense. Low center of mass might help in a car or other multi-track vehicle, but it's not something that inherently makes a bike better. Witness lowracer recumbents (super low center of mass, terrible handling) versus sporting road bikes (high center of mass, great handling).

Bikes tilt around their center of mass. When it's too close to the ground, stability suffers greatly.
Click to expand...

i always assumed lower center of gravity the better. i dont know if you mean your tall bike slow speed ability as an example of a high mass having good handling. maybe at such slow speed it would be an advantage and high speed not. https://ngwenfa.wordpress.com/2017/06/17/instability-resulting-from-high-center-of-gravity-in-motorcycles/#:~:text=A%20high%20center%20of%20gravity%20would%20cause%20the,stability%20at%20bends%2C%20even%20ones%20with%20significant%20curvature.
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/motorcycle-center-of-gravity-motorhead-myths/

"handling" encompasses a lot
 
MadRhino said:
ebike4healthandfitness said:
One thing that you and Chalo are no factoring in it's the width of the tire. On racing motorcycles they compensate for higher center of gravity by increasing the width of the tire. On bicycles we are limited in how wide of a tire we can run.
Click to expand...

That, is not a common misconception. Only distorted logic. Ideal tire width is chosen for many reasons, but helping the rider to balance the bike is not one of them.
Click to expand...

Not sure where you got balance from, but the goal of lower center of gravity is increased grip for any given width tire. The lower the center of gravity the lower the lean angle needs to be.

The sport bikes being used for reference have high seating position but very wide and very sticky tires meant to go along with high lean angles.
 
ebike4healthandfitness said:
Not sure where you got balance from, but the goal of lower center of gravity is increased grip for any given width tire. The lower the center of gravity the lower the lean angle needs to be.

The sport bikes being used for reference have high seating position but very wide and very sticky tires meant to go along with high lean angles.
Click to expand...

Bikes are leaning to turn. Low COG does not improve tire grip of your bike, that is related to weight, dynamic forces, and tire gum/thread/profile/psi selection for the riding surface.

GP racing tires are suffering very high pressure due to the turning speed. Centrifugal force does press the tire in a turn, many times the riding weight. That is why they have wide thick sidewalls with soft gum. The high COG of the bike does make it lean so easily that minimal movement of the rider is required to initiate the turn.

A Trial motorcycle does require some self standing ability, in order to perform in a sport that punishes each ground touch from the rider. Low COG does give it the same kind of self standing force as a punching dummy toy. You need to lean it MORE, or more of your weight to initiate a turn. The bike does use a 4’’ tire that is too wide for its weight, because it does need to ride very low PSI to perform on mixed surface at very low speed.
 
MadRhino said:
ebike4healthandfitness said:
Not sure where you got balance from, but the goal of lower center of gravity is increased grip for any given width tire. The lower the center of gravity the lower the lean angle needs to be.

The sport bikes being used for reference have high seating position but very wide and very sticky tires meant to go along with high lean angles.
Click to expand...

Low COG does not improve tire grip of your bike, that is related to weight, dynamic forces, and tire gum/thread/profile/psi selection for the riding surface.
Click to expand...

Low COG does improve tire grip....for any given weight, dynamic forces, tire gum/thread/profile/psi and riding surface. It will be always be that way.
 
ebike4healthandfitness said:
Low COG does improve tire grip....for any given weight, dynamic forces, tire gum/thread/profile/psi and riding surface. It will be always be that way.
Click to expand...

I don't know where you developed that misconception, but it absolutely does not apply to single track vehicles. Once you're leaned into a turn, the tire has no way to discern how far away the center of mass is. The combination of gravity and centrifugal force passes straight through the center of mass regardless how high or low or is.

But establishing that lean angle is much easier when the mass is centralized and not too low or high.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
Another QS273 Build - "Ducati badging" for fun
Replies
2
Views
613
thomasjgallant
T
S
wich 24v up hill motor do you suggest for giant cypress lx
Replies
20
Views
734
sharinginfos
S
E
$1000 CAD CYC Photon
Replies
2
Views
404
Epithemeus
E
DaLanMan
Dealing with the trike wobbles.
Replies
24
Views
523
DaLanMan
DaLanMan
Skyler
Wheel building for hub motors.
2
Replies
31
Views
2,634
D Alan Stewart
D
Back
Top