new eZip motor

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๐““๐“ฎ๐“ฏ๐“ฒ๐“ฎ๐“ท๐“ฝ๐“ต๐”‚ ๐“›๐“’, which chargers do you want?
12s LTO was for 12s2p charging all your LTO, 10A 67.2V negates that need, 33.6V is no good for any bike except your pot throttled universal controllers.

Looking for LiFePO4 chargers also?
 
DLC - you do realize that each LTO weighs more than a 24oz beer?
Size is almost exactly the same as a 12oz beer can.
24 is the size of a case of beer and weighs more than twice as much. 42.24lb
 
Well I guess I will have to reinforce my battery racks then.

Basically I am defiantly defยทiยทniteยทly
/หˆdef(ษ™)nษ™tlฤ“/
Learn to pronounce
adverb
without doubt (used for emphasis).

The other meaning does not exist as I tried google

Defyantlly.

There is a y instead of an i but nothing pops up so not sure.

Basically I am ordering the 24S - 67V charger. I am ordering it after I post this.

However still want to run @ 36V as I have a lot of motors and controllers that run 36V.

Also 48V as I have a lot of motors and controllers that run @ 48V.

If I limit the LTOs to 60V there is only one e bike I can run. The HaroV3 and not even sure when that will be built.
So right now 60V or 24S is completely useless to me.

The reason for spending $600 on LTOs is so I never have to buy batteries again. So will need two 9S BMSs for LTOs and one 6S BMS for LTOs.

18 * 2.8 = 50.4V 12 * 4.2 = 50.4V

15 * 2.8 = 42V 10 * 4.2 = 42V

6 * 2.8 = 16.8. 4 * 4.2 = 16.8

So I should be able to use either or both of my 6S LiPo chargers to charge LTO.

However if out on a road trip I need portable charging options as not hauling my LiPo chargers around so that is where the 67V charger comes into play as I might be running the Haro V3 with the 3 kilowatt 60V motor.

However if I am running the Giant Roam then I will be running 15 - LTOs 9 in series with a BMS hooked in series to 6 with a BMS to get 36V. I should be able to use either of my 42V chargers I bought when I bought the 10S lithium ion packs.

Also if I am running the Currie which has a 48V controller for the rear gear reduction motor I will need a 48V - 12S lithium ion charger to charge 18S - LTO as the voltage would be the same right ?

So when I order the 67V charger I should also order a 48V 12S charger right ?

Then there is the balance issue. Do they make a 9S BMS for LTOs ??? Do they make a 6S BMS for LTOs ???

Please let me know.

Thnks.

LC. out.
 
. Li-ion ..... LTO
2s -. 8.4v. = 3s - 8.4v
4s - 12.6v = 6s -12.6v
6s - 25.2v = 9s -25.2v
8s - 33.6v = 12s-33.6v
10s-42.0v = 15s-42.0v
12s-50.4v = 18s-50.4v
14s-58.8v = 21s-58.8v
16s-67.2v = 24s-67.2v

If you want decent performance from a 48V motor you want to go 14s Li-ion (50.4V) = 21s LTO (52.5V) !
................................................................................ 12s Li-ion (43.2V) = 18s LTO (45.0V) = 15% less power or range !

and
58.8V chargers are readily available!
 
That sounds great.

Can I get a 21S - BMS though ?

Then I got 3 - LTOs left over. What would I do with them ?

I could buy 12 more I guess for 15S

Can I get a 15S and a 21S BMS though ?

Also spent $800 total. 12 more LTOs are like $300 more for a few extra volts.

Basically it all depends on what BMSs are available for LTOs.

I need to research that.

If you know of any good BMSs please let me know.

I also have the LIFEPO4s coming.

I got to check my e mail to see if they shipped my orders yet.

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Yea. That is a ridiculous amount of money.

For > $600 only using 21 out of 24 cells is very wasteful. Buying 12 more is not happening. I like the idea of a little extra performance but I also have a bunch of LIFEPO4 cells coming so could build a pack equal to 14S Lithium ion with those.

It is a big decision but my ides of splitting the 24 - LTOs into two 9S packs and a 6S pack with BMSs works great for 36V , 48V and 60V. I can always build a 54 to 56V pack with the LIFEPO4s. or something close to 14S Lion.

I just need to find out what BMSs are available. These Lishin LTOs are very popular so should be able to order more if I want to.

Really not sure.

Thanks.

LC. out.
 
Well ... just run your 48V 1000w hub @ 60V ... problem solved.
24s LTO as 60V = 133% power or range of 18s.
Learn throttle restraint!

(Just open controller and confirm caps are greater than 68V !)
 
It seems like LC's goals might not be clear.
Was that 8 ebikes LC has and how many different voltages.
Seems like LC wants Lego batteries like Lipo that you can plug and play to whatever voltage you want, but instead of lego lipo, its lego li-ion/lto.
 
Basically I need to be realistic.

I ordered enough LIFEPO4 to build a large 60V pack 16S - 5P. I ordered five boxes.

download (17).png


Basically almost all my bikes can do 36V. Also 70% or more of the time I am doing < 20 mph.

Then take into consideration the weight of LTOs and the space they take up. I would be better off running the LTOs at 36V or 15S but will need 6 more to make two 15S packs or can just do like I said and build two 9S and a 6S and then can run 36 , 48 or 60V. 15S - LTO. 18S LTO or 24S LTO.

when I need 60V for a motor and am running 15S or 18S LTOs for the second motor on an e bike I just hook up the LIFEPO4s . I could run the 1,000W hub motor on the back of the 26" dual suspension with LIFEPO4 and run LTOs at 15S or 18S for the 36V - 1,000W chain drive on the front.

The same goes for the Currie. but would not want 60V on the back as the gear reduction motor is rated at 36V so could run both motors off 15S LTOs or run the rear 36V motor at 18S LTO and hook up my 10S lithium ion packs to the Bafang up front.

The 1,800W brushless motor runs great at 36V. It has all kinds of power and hill climbing ability. Great acceleration but tops out at 20 to 25 mph I think. It starts shaking > 20 mph so dont run it as fast as it will go. The back wheel needs truing.

Also the Giant Roam which has dual 36V e bikeling motors could run 15S - LTOs.

The 20" Turbo runs at 36 or 48V. I have been running it at 36V, most of the time I had it but could go with 18S LTO for 44V.

That is why I want two 9S BMSs and a 6S BMS for the LTOs. I can run at 15S , 18S or 24S. I do not need 21S as I will have the big LIFEPO4 pack.

Now I just need to find the BMSs. I doubt I can even charge them without a BMS with a LiPo charger.

https://prnt.sc/11994cw

https://en.aliradar.com/item/4000036954835-50a-bms-5s-12v-6s-14.4v-lto-battery-bms-4s-7s-8s-9s-10s-lithium-titanium-battery-protection-board-lto-50a-bms-balance-pcb-bms

download (18).png

Looks good but do not see 6S.

I need two 9S - 50 amp BMSs and one 6S - 50 amp BMS.

DA, likes the power I see as talks about 14S batteries and higher. That's great but you all do realize I can build a 40+ mph bike very easily and cheap with those 36V - 1,000W unite motors like what is on the front of the 26" dual suspension.

One on the front and one on the rear is 2,000 watts total at only 36V. Now lets run 18S LTOs for 48 full to 45V empty.

That would give me 1,000W * 36 = 27.7W * 48 = 1,329W to 1,218W so we will average it out and round it all out to 2,400W total and 42 mph gearing. :lol:

The only thing stopping me is I have not converted from chain to belt drive yet. The motors if still available are cheap. It was 60 bucks for the 36V - 1,000W unite motor and the 36V 1,000W controller was less than $30 I think.

If I can convert the one on the front to belt and hook uo a 16S - 5P LIFEPO4 battery to the rear hub motor and 18S - LTO or 45V to that 36V - 1,000W brush motor I should get at least 35 mph maybe more but not going to do it unless I can make the front a bely drive for safety reasons. If that chain comes off and wraps around the spokes it can flip the bike and at 35 mph that is not even close to being good. :roll:

Thanks.

LC. out.
 
Now I just need to find the BMSs. I doubt I can even charge them without a BMS with a LiPo charger.

You do not need a bms to balance charge. Just need the main positive and main negative and you need the balance leads to each section of the battery with the proper connector to your lipo charger. You solder the wires to the sections of the battery to balance and you plug in the white part to the lipo charger. 2nd picture below shows the JST-XH Balance Connector.

My Grintech battery and battery charger doesnt have no extra wiring for balance charging, its internal bms of the battery balance charges the battery. The connector on my Satiator Charger to charge battery is like the one below, though I thought mine might have had 5 pins not 3.




111.jpg




222.jpeg
 
I dont think my LiPo charger can charge LTOs.

I know it will charge LIFEPO4s but did not see a setting for 2.8V charging for LTO.

I can not charge without a BMS if the charger wont do 2.8V per cell charging.

I can double check both chargers bot don;t think so.

IMG_0127.JPG

IMG_0128.JPG

YEA. I doubt it. However the charger will charge at 6S - 25.2V and 9 * 2.8 = 25.2V but will need the BMS to split 25.2V to 2.8V going to 9 cells.

The 6S - LTO will get the 4S setting on the LiPo charger. 4.2 * 4 = 16.8. ----- 2.8 * 6 = 16.8

If there is a 2.8V setting I don't see it.

Thanks.

LC. out.
 
I can not charge without a BMS if the charger wont do 2.8V per cell charging.
Most lipo chargers can not do a set per cell charge, there might be one out there somewhere.
I wanted to do a 4.15V/cell but couldnt find any at the time I was looking.
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/500PCS-Waterproof-Solder-Seal-Sleeve-Heat-Shrink-Butt-Wire-Connectors-Terminals/224414279749?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=523199407695&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


download (19).png

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Yea. I needed good connecters. I hope those little bullets work. The blue ones I got are useless.

Next is good quality flux and solder. The thin solder that came with the two solder irons I bought don't stick to anything. Just breaks into little pieces and falls on the floor.

I won't have to solder that much with those connecters but still might have to break out the iron sometimes. I have the extra different size tips to experiment with but need really good solder and flux.

IMG_0129.JPG

It is very frustrating. I wanted to solder a couple wires so I can use my 22 watt - 1,700 lumen headlight and wanted to hook it up to a 12V pack with bullets but no way to solder the connections.

The connecters I ordered will show up in a week. That 12V pack I built a while ago, It has a BMS.

Thanks.

LC. out.
 

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You have run across this?
https://www.banggood.com/DIY-Portable-12V-18650-Battery-Energy-Storage-Spot-Welding-PCB-Circuit-Board-p-1686661.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN&p=4G180728226222015103&custlinkid=1524628
 
markz said:
You have run across this?
https://www.banggood.com/DIY-Portable-12V-18650-Battery-Energy-Storage-Spot-Welding-PCB-Circuit-Board-p-1686661.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN&p=4G180728226222015103&custlinkid=1524628

Now here's a review, cracked me up...5 star rating and "I havenโ€™t had a chance to try it yet, but Iโ€™m confident it will work properly as well."
 
They need to be cooled down by waiting between spot welds, or adding cooling like aluminum heat sinks and fans.
The stock windings on my microwave oven transformer are much darker now and I damaged the control board. If those cheap $10-$20 welders work even if you can only do a spot weld a minute, thats fine. Be cooler to find the schematic and look at the circuit diagram. There was the one ES member who sold his own contraption, but theirs wasnt cheap. I'd want tabs in a grid, not strips. Strip grids of 3 or Px5S can always cut them down to 2P5S. But I'd want 3P or 4P to get 10Ah in 18650-25R then string together to make 15 or 20Ah.
 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIY-Portable-Mini-Spot-Welder-Machine-18650-Various-Welding-Power-SuTM/333871277209?hash=item4dbc476499:g:qGcAAOSwtkNftIDX
With screen, remote switch or auto detect, 99 power levels and leads for < ยฃ20
It uses a micro to drive an MCP1407 driving 5 x IPT004N03L but needs thicker wires and more copper on PCB.
Got 1600A through it and ran out of car batteries to drive it harder. Original probes were getting hot, nothing else was that I noticed.
I'm not saying it's a good idea but https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=108047#p1581204 if interested
 
Its just another thing for Curtis to buy and wait for.
In reality its two or 3 things he needs to buy and wait for.
A Lipo battery if he doesnt have one already, thats sufficient for the job
and buy the spot welder.
Then does he go with the pathetic wires and probes that come with the spot welder or make his own. Not hard to do, but that one video in that other thread on same topic, shows that making your own good quality wires and probes is the way to go. Wires is just having bigger wires for less loss, perhaps 10awg or 8awg Silicone Wire from HK, Lipo battery from Hobbyking, and figuring out the copper probes. Then to complicate things even more, trying to cool the printed circuit board down with active and passive cooling techniques. Next is to figure out what I just typed out: What is active and passive cooling means. The dilemma is to define it or not.

These are the tab grids I was talking about.




2222.jpeg
 
markz said:
Its just another thing for Curtis to buy and wait for.
In reality its two or 3 things he needs to buy and wait for.
A Lipo battery if he doesnt have one already, thats sufficient for the job
and buy the spot welder.
Then does he go with the pathetic wires and probes that come with the spot welder or make his own. Not hard to do, but that one video in that other thread on same topic, shows that making your own good quality wires and probes is the way to go. Wires is just having bigger wires for less loss, perhaps 10awg or 8awg Silicone Wire from HK, Lipo battery from Hobbyking, and figuring out the copper probes. Then to complicate things even more, trying to cool the printed circuit board down with active and passive cooling techniques. Next is to figure out what I just typed out: What is active and passive cooling means. The dilemma is to define it or not.
Yeah, you're probably right
Buying might be less painful, waiting - fast - ebay, pissing about making it work pain in the wotsits he probably doesn't need.
In the video he got 600A from a ยฃ200 welder, later in my post on the same thread, The ยฃ20 welder I linked to was putting out 1600A without getting warm and was limited by the battery.
Car batteries for ยฃ5 from the scrap yard, Car battery leads for the welder suppply
leads to the probes I'd buy, re-use the old probes (ok for 0.15).
Happy to test it to see if it needs cooling, don't think so but for ยฃ20, buy 2 and alternate, bin it when it blows up?
Yeah, I know, too much mucking about getting a cheap ebay welder to work.
 
Or free from back alleyes, behind strip malls and recycle centers. I recently dropped off paint to recycle center and saw a few vehicle batteries. Not the community recycle centers, they dont take paints, oils, batteries, lightbulbs. Fire department recycle sheds, or land fill recycle sheds. Landfill recycle sheds probably has a guy there so harder to take what you want from the shed.

BobBob said:
Car batteries for ยฃ5 from the scrap yard,
 
Definitively defiant :shock:

latecurtis said:
Basically I am defiantly defยทiยทniteยทly
/หˆdef(ษ™)nษ™tlฤ“/
Learn to pronounce
adverb
without doubt (used for emphasis).

The other meaning does not exist as I tried google

Defyantlly.
 
I guess the word I mean does not exist as cant google it.

download.png
 
Sick of trying.

Google only gives that spelling and that is it

maybe is the total opposite.

I give up.

You know what I mean though.
 

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaeclkkOOhk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqaZESrFgWs

I hope the cells I ordered have those metal pieces to connect them. (second video)

I was thinking today about having a simple battery to run.

I really like the idea that everything in LTOs are 1P.

It makes things simple. A 9S - 1P in series with a 6S - 1P

I just need a way to strap it down and be able to use it for 3 of my e bikes.

The 26" dual suspension

The 1,800W brushless motor and the 20" Turbo.

The Giant Roam has two 36V motors but hooking up 15S LTO defeats the purpose of having a lightweight bike. I can run my newer 10S lithium ion packs with that as well as the 26" DimondBack with Bafang motor/motors.

The Currie needs at least 12S as working with a 48V controller for the rear chain drive but the new 13S - 7P pack can work for that and use the LTOs for the 36V Bafang. With that set up should be good for at least 30 miles and an animal up hills.

Actually I do have a 36V - 800W brush controller for the Currie and a place to mount it for a choice of 36 and 48V for the rear however will need a separate thumb throttle as I did not have a plug on the one I used for the 48V controller and used solderless connecters to hook the thumb throttle up. Or I could use one of the variable brush controllers with the pot but rather have a throttle. I got one on the way. I need to order two more. One for a spare and one for the Diamondback and that Bafang motor.

Sure I could run dual batteries for the 26" dual suspension but don't really need to and can still go > 25 mph and have enough power to make it up hills around here with two motors. It is 1,000W @ 36V front + 750W rear hub at 36V - 15S LTO.so 1,750W total. At 36V - 3,000 rpm The gearing supports 30 mph for the front chain drive with the 89T - #25 sprocket.

Running 56V or 60V for the rear will get me up to 30 mph faster but will not really effect top speed much. Maybe 5 mph but running a huge 60V LIFEPO4 pack would be way too much weight with LTOs also. Therefore 15 LTOs for most occasions is desirable. At least until I build the LIFEPO4 pack. Then 56V LIFEPO4 rear hub and 10S Lion for the front chain. That is actually a perfect combination for that bike. 24S LTOs for the rear hub and 10S lion up front would be too much weight.

I got an e mail from battery hookup and both the LTOs and LIFEPO4s have been shipped. The first thing I will do is build 15S LTO before I even take the LIFEPO4s out of the box. After I build the 15S - LTO pack I can take my sweet time building the big LIFEPO4 pack. That is 16S - 5P so will call it 56V not 59.2V

As 3.7 * 16 = 59.2V

BUT 3.3 * 16 = 52.8V therefore average voltage is 56V for that pack.

24S - LTO is 64.8V full charge and 55.2V at 2.3V partially discharged so will just call it 60V. The important difference is I might get away with running the LIFEPO4 with a 48V controller as long as it has 60V caps but the only controller I have for 24S - LTO is the 3 kilowatt brushless motor and controller I have not even built yet.

So I need to get it together this week and order the 9S and 6S - 70 amp BMSs for the LTOs. I really can NOT cheap out with a 50 amp BMS or will NOT get the full power from the 3 kilowatt brushless motor. Well I might as 60 * 50 = 3,000W. but that is cutting it close. I guess if that is my only choice but a 100 amp BMS is better than a 50 amp BMS for LTOs or something in between 60 and 100 will work. 50Amps will still get me 40+ mph though so will see what is available.

Thanks.

LC. out.
 
markz said:
Or free from back alleyes, behind strip malls and recycle centers. I recently dropped off paint to recycle center and saw a few vehicle batteries. Not the community recycle centers, they dont take paints, oils, batteries, lightbulbs. Fire department recycle sheds, or land fill recycle sheds. Landfill recycle sheds probably has a guy there so harder to take what you want from the shed.

BobBob said:
Car batteries for ยฃ5 from the scrap yard,
lol, gotta be good batteries, test before you buy, it's a fiver, use that leverage to borrow his tester
 
Not sure why I would need car batteries.

I have 24 LTO - 2.5V cells coming in a couple days. I have a new battery in my van.

I did the research and found out after ordering them that each cell weighs 800 grams which is 1.7 pounds so 24 * 1.7 = 40.8 pounds.

I was not very happy about that number at all but they are already shipped out. I mentioned earlier that I will be running 15S for 36V. I just need to reinforce the existing triangle racks so they can support the extra weight. I won't be running LTOs on all 6 of my e bikes. 7 soon but would like to run LTOs on at least 4.

1.7 * 15 = 25.5 pounds. I used to run three 22 AH - SLAs when I first got into e bikes. My first e bike actually so I can deal with 25 pounds.

Since most of my bikes run 36V that is not an issue. The issue is if I wanted to run LTO at 48 or 60V. I am building a large LIFEPO4 pack which will run 56V and I already have a new 13S - 7P lithium ion pack as well as a 10S - 8P lion pack so really not an issue now.

However I plan on eventually phasing out lion and going LIFEPO4 and LTOs exclusively. However for long trips like 50 or 100 miles and cruising speeds > 25 mph for 30 mile to 50 mile stretches' LTOs will charge 10 times faster than Lion and at least 5 times faster than LIFEPO4s.

Basically I guess I am not finished spending money. I will need 6 more LTOs for 30 so can run two packs of 15 but not at the same time. I can only or should I say will run 15 on an e bike , but that leaves 9 cells that wont ever be run so need 6 more for the second pack.

The cost of running LTOs is a big compromise as well as the weight but a trade off I am willing to embrace. I will be spending a good some of money for a portable charger that can charge 15S LTOs quickly on the road.

I also will be spending 200 to 300 bucks on a GOOD DC step up voltage converter to achieve 48 to 60V from a 15S 36V LTO pack.

DC step up converters do in fact exist and are very common on e bay , Amazon ect. However just like batteries all are not created equal. I am staying away from the cheap ones and looking at > 85% efficiency. I am looking at 90% and above efficiency. That would only make sense as these batteries will last longer than I will so am not wanting a cheap charger or converter which could fail miserably perhaps causing a fire or other calamity.

I should be able to run 36 to 60V and recharge awhile I stop for lunch. The only limitations would be the maximum current the AC outlet will allow.

I will have the LTOs this week.

Any links or posts related to this is appreciated. Also I am still shopping for a decent 3D printer but am still gathering information on those. Especially the software. I will need a basic understanding of how to design 3D prints or the printer is basically useless.

I need solderless cell holders for LIFEPO4 cells and want to print a motor wheel for a dual D bore 10mm motor shaft and a pully wheel for the bike rim that can bolt to a freewheel clutch electric scooter parts sells. The end result needs to be 8 to 1 gear reduction and must be designed for the T belt sold separately in these kits.

download (3).png

That is a lot to accomplish and will appreciate any help or links. I am researching it as we speak so do not expect others to do all the work and research for me but if anyone has a good link or idea they wish to share.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.
 
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