new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

After two weekends of changing the settings in the app, and testing the bike, mostly fast start and soft start settings, I’ve come to one conclusion. That is both being off works the best for me. Any sort of soft start just put a delay or its own ramp ontop of what I was giving it from the throttle. Fast start I set from low to none and eventually went with none. 60a stock Bluetooth, domino throttle, 100k trimpot added to power input, to not get over voltage. Same thing I did with the other bike.
 

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I’m not so sure about a bargain. They were $175 each. Got a bunch of AliExpress items from the 11. 11 sale which wasn’t so much of a sale anyway as it seems these are the regular prices. This bike has the 3 22ah where my retro cruiser used 6 16ah lipos but the multistar. So far the performance is great with no issues, been charging at 20A
 

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Skaiwerd said:
I’m not so sure about a bargain. They were $175 each. Got a bunch of AliExpress items from the 11. 11 sale which wasn’t so much of a sale anyway as it seems these are the regular prices. This bike has the 3 22ah where my retro cruiser used 6 16ah lipos but the multistar. So far the performance is great with no issues, been charging at 20A
It started as a cheap fatbike. They are common.
 

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Cheaper new fat bikes can be found. These guys just buy cargo containers of cheap stuff and sell it in store.
$250 cdn - Cdn stores - http://unclewiener.com/product/new-deviant-26-fat-tire-season-bike-ns88/

$500cdn from department store - https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/search-results.html?q=fat%20bike
$460cdn - Costco Northrock XC00 Frame - Its interesting to see the used fat bikes being sold for more. I bought this fat bike, used for $300cdn from a bicycle hoarder.

1spd $350usd, 3x8 $600usd - Bikes Direct - http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/fat-bikes.htm
Used from Pinkbike - $500usd for a Redline fatty - https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2857873/

I just purchased a 604 Elements (non electric) 1x7 fat bike for $400cdn, local pawn shop had same fat bike (non electric), different color for $900 and has been up for sale for the last 1.5yrs. I just kept looking at local online classifieds. You'll always find a good deal sooner or later on whatever style of bicycle your looking for.
 
A good reference thanks! For those starting out it could be a way to go. You buy these bargain bikes for the frame and wheels only. Everything else must be replaced. I went with the freewheel not cassette type of wheel, which most of these are I think anyway. I figured replacing freewheels a
better option over fixing the cassette type of wheel/hub.
Bending rear axles now but rideable with chain retention. Working to convert rear loose bearings 3/8” axle to 12mm moto bolt and sealed bearings. I hope they fit.
 

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Anyone had any luck with other controllers than the yuyanking one? Maybe the grinfineon or KT controllers might work?

Wanted to try with a nucular but they seem to be unavailable for the foreseeable future

https://ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/controllers/c7240-l10.html
 
I'll take the first, just so I can say I got my bike from uncle wiener

markz said:
Cheaper new fat bikes can be found. These guys just buy cargo containers of cheap stuff and sell it in store.
$250 cdn - Cdn stores - http://unclewiener.com/product/new-deviant-26-fat-tire-season-bike-ns88/

$500cdn from department store - https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/search-results.html?q=fat%20bike
$460cdn - Costco Northrock XC00 Frame - Its interesting to see the used fat bikes being sold for more. I bought this fat bike, used for $300cdn from a bicycle hoarder.

1spd $350usd, 3x8 $600usd - Bikes Direct - http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/fat-bikes.htm
Used from Pinkbike - $500usd for a Redline fatty - https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2857873/

I just purchased a 604 Elements (non electric) 1x7 fat bike for $400cdn, local pawn shop had same fat bike (non electric), different color for $900 and has been up for sale for the last 1.5yrs. I just kept looking at local online classifieds. You'll always find a good deal sooner or later on whatever style of bicycle your looking for.
 
Yeah its a funny name and yet its a very odd name.

I liked an old used car dealer that was named Farmer Jones Carz, a Calgary institution for decades, down in the now rich, now yuppified community of Inglewood east of the down town core. A kin do place that has $1M homes, frequented by the homeless and in a 100yr flood zone which we had in 2013.

I would like to see the owner of Uncle Wiener or at minimum read his name. I am sure he or she travels to China on a regular basis.
They have 6 stores, maybe you can buy online and they ship. I have just walked through their store a few times and test rode that fat bike, one size fits all, unfortunately. However, you'd be far better off waiting for a good deal in the online classifieds. I purchased a non-electrified 604 Elements fat bike for $400cdn, a local pawn shop has had another non-electrified Elements 604 up for sale for the past 3 years judging by an old pic I saw in an image search, I would have guessed 1 to 2 yrs since I've been seeing it on Kijiji (Canada's online classifieds, which ebay owns now) Why so long, $900cdn they want. The 604's do come up for sale, in non-electrified form more then you may think. The only other times I saw some up for sale was a pair, his and hers for an average price, and another time for a great deal like what I got mine for. I was to slow in snapping that one up. My current one, I snapped it up quick!
I do not know why they have their electrics removed. Maybe the batteries dies and they still want a fat bike so they get a rear wheel. Its a perfect candidate for a diy conversion. If I were to convert and have to buy a mid drive, I'd personally go with a BBSHD, but the Cyclone 3kw is a great motor. I got the 4kw coaxial version, whatever that means. I am sure its been posted what the difference is, between the 3kw and the 4kw. I thought maybe it was just the controller, but it could be the size of the motor or maybe the gearing.


http://unclewiener.com





Manbeer said:
I'll take the first, just so I can say I got my bike from uncle wiener
markz said:
http://unclewiener.com/product/new-deviant-26-fat-tire-season-bike-ns88/
 
bikeisland.com also has a nice frame and fork combo for 125 shipped which would be a good candidate for a budget build. unfortunately, finding 135/170mm wheels for a reasonable price seems hard at the moment so i held off on ordering...plus i can't tell anyone i got it from uncle weiner.

https://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=2961
 
1. Is there anyone that has succesfully got Cyclone 3000w working with Grin Phaserunner in sensored mode? What did you do? I have read about doing "RC-filter" to hall sensors to fix their output? Someone enlighten me.


2. Alternatively, is it possible to get Cyclone 3000w to work smoothly from standing stop with sensorless mode?. I am unable to get good settings for that. I get phase overcurrent faults and I'm almost clueless which settings I should I raise and which decrease. One thing is sure that raising Current Regulator Bandwith causes RF interference in my Cycle Analyst speedometer. It reads like 200-300km/h when I try to accelerate, before limiter (99kmh or 25kmh depending on which preset I have) stops my acceleration.

My settings now:
Feedback bandwidth tuning
Current regulator bandwidth: 1050 rads
PLL Bandwidth: 875 rads
PLL Damping: 2,00
Sensorless starting parameters
Alignment Hold Time: 100ms
Autostart Injection Current: 50,1A
Autostart Spinup Time: 3000ms
Autostart Max RPM: 8 RPM
 
DtiK said:
1. Is there anyone that has succesfully got Cyclone 3000w working with Grin Phaserunner in sensored mode? What did you do? I have read about doing "RC-filter" to hall sensors to fix their output? Someone enlighten me.


2. Alternatively, is it possible to get Cyclone 3000w to work smoothly from standing stop with sensorless mode?. I am unable to get good settings for that. I get phase overcurrent faults and I'm almost clueless which settings I should I raise and which decrease. One thing is sure that raising Current Regulator Bandwith causes RF interference in my Cycle Analyst speedometer. It reads like 200-300km/h when I try to accelerate, before limiter (99kmh or 25kmh depending on which preset I have) stops my acceleration.

My settings now:
Feedback bandwidth tuning
Current regulator bandwidth: 1050 rads
PLL Bandwidth: 875 rads
PLL Damping: 2,00
Sensorless starting parameters
Alignment Hold Time: 100ms
Autostart Injection Current: 50,1A
Autostart Spinup Time: 3000ms
Autostart Max RPM: 8 RPM

I have cyclone coaxial and asi bac2000. No it doesn't work out of the box, same way it doesn't for kelly controllers either. WIth kelly, it apparently works if you use the halls on 12v instead of 5v (didn't try that with the asi), there was also some pullup resistor mod mentioned on this forum, I did the mod, no change. (phaserunner is made by asi)

I did figure out some killer sensorless settings, so you don't really notice it is in sensorless unless you are attempting to start from a huge incline hill.
 
Tommm said:
DtiK said:
1. Is there anyone that has succesfully got Cyclone 3000w working with Grin Phaserunner in sensored mode? What did you do? I have read about doing "RC-filter" to hall sensors to fix their output? Someone enlighten me.


2. Alternatively, is it possible to get Cyclone 3000w to work smoothly from standing stop with sensorless mode?. I am unable to get good settings for that. I get phase overcurrent faults and I'm almost clueless which settings I should I raise and which decrease. One thing is sure that raising Current Regulator Bandwith causes RF interference in my Cycle Analyst speedometer. It reads like 200-300km/h when I try to accelerate, before limiter (99kmh or 25kmh depending on which preset I have) stops my acceleration.

My settings now:
Feedback bandwidth tuning
Current regulator bandwidth: 1050 rads
PLL Bandwidth: 875 rads
PLL Damping: 2,00
Sensorless starting parameters
Alignment Hold Time: 100ms
Autostart Injection Current: 50,1A
Autostart Spinup Time: 3000ms
Autostart Max RPM: 8 RPM

I have cyclone coaxial and asi bac2000. No it doesn't work out of the box, same way it doesn't for kelly controllers either. WIth kelly, it apparently works if you use the halls on 12v instead of 5v (didn't try that with the asi), there was also some pullup resistor mod mentioned on this forum, I did the mod, no change. (phaserunner is made by asi)

I did figure out some killer sensorless settings, so you don't really notice it is in sensorless unless you are attempting to start from a huge incline hill.

12v instead of 5v did not help. doesnt work. no difference.

can you share killer sensorless settings? best i have got with phaserunner is like jumping with kangaroo and successful launch without error codes depends on throttle position (too much throttle = error).

Also, i dont understand why my sequence goes like this when i turn motor by hand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcqBYwxCyFo
like it sees "too much yellow". :roll:

with other controllers my cyclone runs just fine in sensored mode! must be something strange in phaserunner.. but im not only one having this problem with phaserunner + cyclone.
 
Negative feedback stabilizes and no feedback can be as bad as positive feedback.

A sensorless controller is an oxymoron term. Throw that controller away as the modern world runs smoothly with actual sensors (detectors) and actuators. That controller's method/design of detecting field intensity change (sounds great) is inadequate to respond to the rate of needed field change with a Cyclone motor. Ask for your money back? Or are you not tired of the headaches?
 
DingusMcGee said:
Negative feedback stabilizes and no feedback can be as bad as positive feedback.

A sensorless controller is an oxymoron term. Throw that controller away as the modern world runs smoothly with actual sensors (detectors) and actuators. That controller's method/design of detecting field intensity change (sounds great) is inadequate to respond to the rate of needed field change with a Cyclone motor. Ask for your money back? Or are you not tired of the headaches?

No, because there is no any other controller that does same things like phaserunner in such small package.

I though FOC is the thing nowadays (no hall sensors needed except for starting of motor, after that theyre not used).

My only headache is getting sensored starting to work.. If i start with pedaling and configured to sensorless mode, its not even needed. Otherwise controller works good. Motor is quiet, regen braking works...
 
Most FOC controllers use sensors.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105139
 
DtiK

I though FOC is the thing nowadays (no hall sensors needed except for starting of motor, after that theyre not used).

To get that phaserunner to work in all phases you could add a small electric starter motor from a small gas ⛽️ Lawnmower? Then go read about the Emperor's New Clothes.
 
DtiK said:
Tommm said:
DtiK said:
1. Is there anyone that has succesfully got Cyclone 3000w working with Grin Phaserunner in sensored mode? What did you do? I have read about doing "RC-filter" to hall sensors to fix their output? Someone enlighten me.


2. Alternatively, is it possible to get Cyclone 3000w to work smoothly from standing stop with sensorless mode?. I am unable to get good settings for that. I get phase overcurrent faults and I'm almost clueless which settings I should I raise and which decrease. One thing is sure that raising Current Regulator Bandwith causes RF interference in my Cycle Analyst speedometer. It reads like 200-300km/h when I try to accelerate, before limiter (99kmh or 25kmh depending on which preset I have) stops my acceleration.

My settings now:
Feedback bandwidth tuning
Current regulator bandwidth: 1050 rads
PLL Bandwidth: 875 rads
PLL Damping: 2,00
Sensorless starting parameters
Alignment Hold Time: 100ms
Autostart Injection Current: 50,1A
Autostart Spinup Time: 3000ms
Autostart Max RPM: 8 RPM

I have cyclone coaxial and asi bac2000. No it doesn't work out of the box, same way it doesn't for kelly controllers either. WIth kelly, it apparently works if you use the halls on 12v instead of 5v (didn't try that with the asi), there was also some pullup resistor mod mentioned on this forum, I did the mod, no change. (phaserunner is made by asi)

I did figure out some killer sensorless settings, so you don't really notice it is in sensorless unless you are attempting to start from a huge incline hill.

12v instead of 5v did not help. doesnt work. no difference.

can you share killer sensorless settings? best i have got with phaserunner is like jumping with kangaroo and successful launch without error codes depends on throttle position (too much throttle = error).

Also, i dont understand why my sequence goes like this when i turn motor by hand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcqBYwxCyFo
like it sees "too much yellow". :roll:

with other controllers my cyclone runs just fine in sensored mode! must be something strange in phaserunner.. but im not only one having this problem with phaserunner + cyclone.

151946199_3800196156706904_7143911290992509190_n.jpg

This is for my cyc, it has 2 stage reduction so it will be more similar to the c3000w than my coaxial which has 1 stage reduction.

If you want to tweak it a bit:
1st param: power. set it higher if you are lacking power during the spinup sequence. drawback: setting it too high will rattle more and will probably be bad for motor internals. so keep it on the minimum that works for most cases. for a 223phase amps config, 0.15 is about 25-30A phase value. The bigger the motor and less reduction you have, the more you will need. generally between 0.12 to 0.20x of your phase amps value is enough. (on phaserunner this would be 20-30A injection current maxiumum.
2nd and 4th param: how much time the sensorless spinup should take. it should be 100/100 for a smaller or 150/150 for a bigger motor.
3rd param: how high of an rpm to spin up to during the sensorless spinup. The bigger the reduction the higher the rpm you need to get the bike moving. use 8 for big motor 15 for small motor with a lot of reduction.
5th param (hold time) similar to above param, but since it is inverted as in measuring ms instead of Hz, the smaller the motor and bigger the reduction, the smaller the hold time.

There is no perfect setup that will handle a hill climb startup (strong and long spinup) but be lightning quick response during offroad (quick and quiet spinup). Me personally I go for quick spinup in exchange for needing to push myself forward just a tiny bit to start the bike off (about a turtle's pace is enough). Dumping the throttle from zero rpm is the worst you can do anyway, and this conservative setup prevents people from doing it.
 
Tommm,

I am impressed you got that insufficient controller to sort of work. Thanks for piping up.

That controller of "such a small package" would be worthless on an edirtbike if the response you describe for likely very mild hill starts is the best it can do.

I'd rather be riding, than.....
 
Can this motor be run with virtual-torque as throttle with stock controller? eg. faster pedal = motor spins faster, slow pedal = motor spins slowly

Can I limit the max power & speed?

Is there a road / off road mode?

Thanks!
 
Skirmish said:
Can this motor be run with virtual-torque as throttle with stock controller? eg. faster pedal = motor spins faster, slow pedal = motor spins slowly

Can I limit the max power & speed?

Is there a road / off road mode?

Thanks!

From what I've seen, cyclone is bundling different controllers to the motors now, not yuyangkings (which would have been a no). So is GNG. I have no idea what those controllers are capable of, but usually the pas sensors are an on/off switch, and you change assistance from the display instead of it listening to cadence (the former is what bafang or kt controllers do).

The motor is just a piece of metal, once you have the controller and sensors to do what you want, any motor can do it.
 
Hi, I'm building my first GNG Cyclone 3kW ebike. Almost everything is working well, next is to install and set up the new Kelly controller. And then maybe I will potting the motor to get the best out of it.
If it is allowed to post, a facebook group is here, would be great if we can help each other there too:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/357143392228423

Is anyone found a good 5holes freewheel in Europe? This one is not so reliable ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33059965147.html ). A freewheel maybe from a CNC mechanic with ball bearings would be much better but it needs a threaded middle part for the crank so not easy
 
harvester said:
How to take off the rotor from the cyclone 3kw motor?

Have you got the gearbox off yet?
 
Motor disassembly and potting done, thx.
 

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