Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

This was my bike before this. I only had hubs so far. But I realized their shortcomings. Not only the unsprung is the problem but the dismal efficiency at low rpm. (That's why I'd want the 22 inch). Scooters are really suited for hubs tho that small wheel spins like crazy.

But I also see the problem with the mid motors. Hubs are waay better freewheelers so you get back some of the wasted energy coming from the low rpm inefficiencies in regen scenarios. Plus the noiselessness. So there's pros and cons everywhere.

Aptera has hub motors. They say that axial flux hub motors are the next big thing. If you could reduce that unsprung hubs would be really good. However I dont think it'll ever happen. For AF motors are only efficient if you give them the rpm once you make a hub out of it there goes the effi.

Right now I have a scooter with friggin mid motor. I roll off the throttle and the wheel stops so fast as if it had regen. Yet zero amps are coming back. I literally have to pull the throttle even on relatively steep declines so it doesnt stop. I have no choice but to weld a freewheel onto it. That's the only way that friggin scooter will ever be good. Still wont have regen but at least it will be able to coast.
 

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I think the rs50 aprilia is the best for conversion. It doesnt have rear suspension linkage so the whole battery pack can be fitted below reaching underneath the swing arm giving terrific COG.

You can see on the picture where the battery will be.

I used to be a track racer. I had all sorts of sportsbikes. I hate petrol now tho. They are disgusting I simply feel no right to own a noisy petrol bike at this day and age. They literally make me sick.

I still have a vague desire to make a proper track bike. (I think I could make a better one than the friggin energicas that shit is waay too heavy due to the lipos). But it's a looota money. I'd have to build a custom frame for that too. Actually I had some designs before that was quite unique but now I see that Twente already made a proper racebike much according to my visions. So since they already made it I dont really feel the motivation too much to do it after all it already exists in the world I dont think I could make a better bike than them.

I actually did a moped tuning before the idea was to put the cells in the square holder giving some space between the cells and expose the pack to the air for cooling. This way you can use capacity cells instead of power cells without overheating and also no need for heavy climate control systems. The reason why energica sucks is cause they had to use heavy lipos cause the light lion capacity cells got cooked. But Twente actually put "my" idea into their racebike. Same range as the energica yet waaay lighter. I'd need at least 20k for such bike. Even more. One time there was an emrax for sale for half the price with a bammocar controller. I should have effin bought that. The controller and the motor alone is 10k for such a racebike. So 5k for the motor and controller 1.5k for the 20 kwh pack. The frame is mostly just work. But still a lotta other stuff carbon wheels ohlins suspension etc... That's at least another 10k but used I could maybe get it for cheaper. It's at least 15k from used parts. 25k new...😪 maybe when I win the lottery...
 
Here's the Twente bike. My only concern is that they didnt put a mesh before the battery. Gravel likes to fly all over ona racetrack. It pierces just one cell their whole bike is smoke then and there...

However I realised that two wheelers are extremely shitty for electric conversion. They have a horrible CV relative to a car. So I think building a really fast bike is actually foolish. That's the reason why electric bikes are going down the drain. TBH i think a two wheeler is best to remain way below 100 kph. And even that is too much. I purposely chose the aprilia because of the good air drag but even a bike like this has twice the coefficient to a car.
 

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kiggyo said:
The main problem if the low starting amps can't rotate the motor (the car need to climb up to a bump), it just make weird noises and the car will stay in the traffic. Or start immediately with burning tires, i haven't got control on it, no predictable.

After a long time I have some updates on this, but for now I can only speak for the EM-50S and EM-50SP: If you bought the controller from SIAECONSYS (QS-Motors), it has a customized firmware. The acceleration of the SIAECOSYS is horrible, like if you have activated softstart on the other one on the highest level. Currently I am in talks with Carrie, but as everyone knows who has been in touch with her, she is a lovely sales woman, but has close to no clue about the technical stuff. The other thing I will try to swap firmware images. Unfortunately I do not have the 2.32 and the 2.33 firmware files, but I have seen that some of you have and I would be extremely happy if they could get mailed to me (please note down, if it is the SIAECOSYS version, or not. Usually if you have CAN, it should be the one from SIAECOSYS).
 
rienesl said:
kiggyo said:
The main problem if the low starting amps can't rotate the motor (the car need to climb up to a bump), it just make weird noises and the car will stay in the traffic. Or start immediately with burning tires, i haven't got control on it, no predictable.

After a long time I have some updates on this, but for now I can only speak for the EM-50S and EM-50SP: If you bought the controller from SIAECONSYS (QS-Motors), it has a customized firmware. The acceleration of the SIAECOSYS is horrible, like if you have activated softstart on the other one on the highest level. Currently I am in talks with Carrie, but as everyone knows who has been in touch with her, she is a lovely sales woman, but has close to no clue about the technical stuff. The other thing I will try to swap firmware images. Unfortunately I do not have the 2.32 and the 2.33 firmware files, but I have seen that some of you have and I would be extremely happy if they could get mailed to me (please note down, if it is the SIAECOSYS version, or not. Usually if you have CAN, it should be the one from SIAECOSYS).

I'm planning to buy the em50 from DUN. That's where it's the cheapest now. Can you confirm it'll be good? (Or better than the Sia version.)
 
DUN is the cheapest? Sure? That would be the first time ever. For exactly this reason I had never ordered from them, so I can not say much. But if the controller has a serial interface and is not on CAN, you should be on the safe side. However, the SIAECOSYS has the hard coded "soft start" acceleration, but has the ability to configure the current(!) separately for each "gear". That was important for my ultra long range project. The ordinary version has just one current setting valid for all gears and one for sport. For configuration I have wrote a lot on the 50 something pages, if you are getting the 2.33 firmware and the Sport9 software (yes, different firmware and different software result in different results!)
 
Sattva Ram said:
Right now I have a scooter with friggin mid motor. I roll off the throttle and the wheel stops so fast as if it had regen. Yet zero amps are coming back. I literally have to pull the throttle even on relatively steep declines so it doesnt stop. I have no choice but to weld a freewheel onto it. That's the only way that friggin scooter will ever be good. Still wont have regen but at least it will be able to coast.

A scooter like a Vespa? Do you think it’s throttle-off eABS or just a non-back-drivable transmission?
 
BareKuda said:
Sattva Ram said:
Right now I have a scooter with friggin mid motor. I roll off the throttle and the wheel stops so fast as if it had regen. Yet zero amps are coming back. I literally have to pull the throttle even on relatively steep declines so it doesnt stop. I have no choice but to weld a freewheel onto it. That's the only way that friggin scooter will ever be good. Still wont have regen but at least it will be able to coast.

A scooter like a Vespa? Do you think it’s throttle-off eABS or just a non-back-drivable transmission?

https://www.fruugo.hu/cipzar-elektromos-robogo-800w-a-felfuggesztes/p-57840237-117291756?language=hu&ac=croud&gclid=Cj0KCQiA5aWOBhDMARIsAIXLlkdCzUxauLtbHb5cvkw7raZRgYPnszN9EzWIr6NG1mGVj1PE6OJCoqwaAl6zEALw_wcB

This shit.

No regen no e-abs nothing. Just a motor with a huge drag. And a 5amp no load consumption.

I'm planning to buy this

€ 4,90 20%OFF | 2pcs Bicycle Freewheel Adapter Iron DIY E-Bike Scooter Freewheel Adapter Electric Bicycle Scooter Freewheel Adapter Accessory
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mN0dUg0

€ 14,98 67%OFF | 54 Teeth Scooter Sprocket Chain Drive Gear + Toothless Freewheel For T8F Chain Steel High Quality Durable And Practical
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mN6bmmc

It'll be hard to weld it onto the wheel the BCD of the sprocket is exactly the diameter size of the adapter. So i'll have to weld it on the bolts directly...
 
Sattva Ram said:
This shit.

No regen no e-abs nothing. Just a motor with a huge drag. And a 5amp no load consumption.
The ads and videos I found for that say it has ABS brakes, and since i know thise cable actuated Disk brakes aren't ABS they must be taking about the motor.

I cant tell what size front sprocket is but seems like 7 tooth and with that huge back sprocket its not going to be back-driveable. The general rule for each reduction it can have a maximum of 5:1. So their “ABS” might just be a motor with high eddy current losses trying to be back driven through a 1:8 ratio. The torque required is a lot more than 8x the motor drag.

My last scooter had e-lock programed in and the back tire would lock up if you start rolling it, even with the key off. Had to turn on the ignition for it to release the e-lock.

But if you take your battery out and cant move it then its not e-anything trying to stop you.

Instead of a sprag clutch just put your QS138 in it with a 3:1 ratio and it will back drive and be scary. Lol
 
Naah I am not buying Qs for this piece of garbage. Actually i didnt know that it was originally DC motor. It turned out later when I looked at it. I just couldnt bear the idea of a DC motor so I changed it to a brand new BLDC in the hope that it was the DC motor the bad. But it's pretty much the same drag nothing really changed with bldc. It's my controller so I know it has no regen or abs. The DC was the same btw huuuge drag. No choice the only way is a freewheel conversion. Anyway I'm selling it so I dont even know whether to invest in it. The problem with me is that I hate selling junk I just cant bear the idea that something is not as good as it could be. So i guess i'll do it. Ratio 11-54 right now.
 
Sattva Ram said:
Naah I am not buying Qs for this piece of garbage. Actually i didnt know that it was originally DC motor. It turned out later when I looked at it. I just couldnt bear the idea of a DC motor so I changed it to a brand new BLDC in the hope that it was the DC motor the bad. But it's pretty much the same drag nothing really changed with bldc. It's my controller so I know it has no regen or abs. The DC was the same btw huuuge drag. No choice the only way is a freewheel conversion. Anyway I'm selling it so I dont even know whether to invest in it. The problem with me is that I hate selling junk I just cant bear the idea that something is not as good as it could be. So i guess i'll do it. Ratio 11-54 right now.

While looking for my next toy i also don't want something that has bad characteristics. But lately im doing all my shopper online and its more like roulette than anything.

Sometimes i just want to see what sort of crap ill get for $300.

https://shopee.ph/Electric-bicycle...44&xptdk=f44f8d7d-0167-42ae-ac2e-792610045644

It says it has a 48v 20ah lithium battery but that must be using the 10,000 mah Chinese 18650s. Lol. I guess the real capacity is 8ah.
 
No waaay I ever buy crap like these again. This scooter was enough to learn. The neighbor's moped is so so so frikkin bad too. EVERYTHING is bad about these craps I'm telling you. The suspension the brake even the welds. It just makes zero sense to buy it.
 
Sattva Ram said:
No waaay I ever buy crap like these again. This scooter was enough to learn. The neighbor's moped is so so so frikkin bad too. EVERYTHING is bad about these craps I'm telling you. The suspension the brake even the welds. It just makes zero sense to buy it.

I cant afford a Harley Livewire to take apart and modify. Lol.

The main reason i want something tiny is so i can bring it up into the air conditioning and work on it.

I can barely get the battery for the Kuda up stairs. It weighs 75 lbs alone and this other ebike weighs about 55 lbs with the cough cough 20a ah lithium battery. Lol
 
Just buy a quality full suspensiom bicycle then. If you dont like the regular saddle buy a no nose saddle that's kinda moped like.
 
The battery may not be so bad. The problem is tho that even from no name brand a battery like this should cost 300 alone. I have a no name shark pack here right now for BMS repair for someone and it's actually kinda good. But it wasnt cheap either. For this price you can only get "surefire" brand which is absolutely useless and the name is probably indicative of the property if you know what I mean.
 
Sattva Ram said:
Just buy a quality full suspensiom bicycle then. If you dont like the regular saddle buy a no nose saddle that's kinda moped like.

I have a decent bicycle. I just want to make something.

My first electric scooter was ok, but felt like a heavy duty bicycle not a scooter. And the rear springs are preloaded to 250 lbs so it acted like a hardtail unless there was a rear passenger that hit McDonald’s daily.

The new electric scooter is significantly more substantial. The front and rear suspension work good and it drives like a 50cc scooter.

The real 48v 20ah lithium batteries of that design are about 30% taller. That one is real world be 12ah, and more likely its 8ah using Firefly 10,000 mah cells. Lol.
 
The derbi gp1 is what I'd do if I wanted a moped. It's not light tho so no good for you.

I'm thinkin of modifying the em30 to 12Fets. It has a bigass heatsink it could accomodate a shitton of fets...If I could do it I would have a dirt cheap very powerful proper controller..
 
Sattva Ram said:
The derbi gp1 is what I'd do if I wanted a moped. It's not light tho so no good for you.

I'm thinkin of modifying the em30 to 12Fets. It has a bigass heatsink it could accomodate a shitton of fets...If I could do it I would have a dirt cheap very powerful proper controller..

I wanted to take my EM-30 cover off but its clued on with lots sealant. I wanted to see the exact STM32 used and try to learn more about it,
 
BareKuda said:
I wanted to take my EM-30 cover off but its clued on with lots sealant. I wanted to see the exact STM32 used and try to learn more about it,

STM32F103C8T6 is the marking on EM100 processor, suspecting that EM30, EM150 etc. too have it
 
afzal said:
BareKuda said:
I wanted to take my EM-30 cover off but its clued on with lots sealant. I wanted to see the exact STM32 used and try to learn more about it,

STM32F103C8T6 is the marking on EM100 processor, suspecting that EM30, EM150 etc. too have it

Lishui & Xaiomi M365 controllers too have the same processor & there are open source firmware's available for those.

If Votol schematics could be reverse engineered, that could be a step forward to create open source firmware for it. If successful, user would have control over the controller :wink: and dealing with the mysterious Votol configuration software could be done away with.
 
afzal said:
BareKuda said:
I wanted to take my EM-30 cover off but its clued on with lots sealant. I wanted to see the exact STM32 used and try to learn more about it,

STM32F103C8T6 is the marking on EM100 processor, suspecting that EM30, EM150 etc. too have it


Dont you know how to set the motor temperature data? I heard somewhere that there is a key combination or something. Tbh i am starting to suspect that it has motor temp sensor and once my lm35 got faulty I might just be able to use a kty instead.
 
afzal said:
BareKuda said:
I wanted to take my EM-30 cover off but its clued on with lots sealant. I wanted to see the exact STM32 used and try to learn more about it,

STM32F103C8T6 is the marking on EM100 processor, suspecting that EM30, EM150 etc. too have it

Thanks, ill try to look up the datasheet to see what the built in FOC control uses, but like you say you still need to reverse engineer any modifiers Votol added in.

It would be nice if someone made a program that can modify anything designed to be modified.
 
Sattva Ram said:
You can pry it off with a bit of force. It isnt glued so badly...but you have to glue it back.

I wasn’t ready for a “hold my beer” moment before i even knew if it worked better i voided the warranty. Lol
 
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