Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Paulflieg said:
On the back of the display, solder the cable at (hall sensor)

in the controller setup = page2/hall speedometer,

In portsettings /pb9=13,io

Hey Im near the dirt bike and I have tried it now and still doesn't work I should use the white wire of the controller right? I'm using votol 200
 
Paulflieg said:
On the back of the display, solder the cable at (hall sensor)

in the controller setup = page2/hall speedometer,

In portsettings /pb9=13,io

I have figure it out, in votol 200 u need to change the pa15 instead of pb9
 
ors150 said:
Paulflieg said:
I have figure it out, in votol 200 u need to change the pa15 instead of pb9
Very quirky but a YouTube video from a year ago about the EM-200 confirms PA15 is the speed signal and in the video PB9 was High Brake.

At about 3:21 in the video
[youtube] https://youtu.be/YXufwFtoZJo[/youtube]

Using one lin in page 3 settings and PA15 port settings may enable these hidden icons. Might not but worth a try.
84B7F639-BED4-4185-9EC9-21E310688523.jpeg
 
Hi all, cannot get PC to connect so now have Bluetooth with android phone, on page one the drop box for model does not work. It appears to connect (red light stops flashing and remains continuous).
The motor works forward and reverse but on display page nothing happens and says the controller is idle.
Any suggestions?

Screenshot_20220202-134333_WeChat.jpgScreenshot_20220201-172327_WeChat.jpg
 
Im building a bike with QS 138 v3 and votol em 150/2
Im waiting for a higher discharge capable battery but currently have a 72v battery to test with but the BMS is limited to 50a continuous and 100a peak.
If I set the busbar current to 100a will that prevent the BMS from cutting power? Should I go a little lower so there is a buffer?
Do I set the current limiting to the same number?
What do I need to do to ensure I dont try to pull too much amperage from the battery

I have a battery on the way that supports 100A continuous and 200A peak..but for now I would like to test with the battery I have on hand if at all possible.

Thanks
 
Oldspot said:
Hi all, cannot get PC to connect so now have Bluetooth with android phone, on page one the drop box for model does not work. It appears to connect (red light stops flashing and remains continuous).
The motor works forward and reverse but on display page nothing happens and says the controller is idle.
Any suggestions?

Where did you get the app? Does it exist in English!? Can you share the app?
 
Bought off AliExpress about £9 shipped in a couple of weeks
Yes it’s second generation mini app on WeChat, comes in English now
All good but as previous post a few problems I need help with.
 
Bought off AliExpress about £9 shipped in a couple of weeks
Yes it’s second generation mini app on WeChat, comes in English now
All good but as previous post a few problems I need help with.
 
Hello sirs, I am looking for help in calibrating an em-100 with an unknown brand motor. Recently switched from Kelly to the EM-100. I have scoured this thread quite thoroughly and made some progress, currently I am encountering engine tick noise and throttle "stuck" open until I engage regen. (Only when reaching high revs, without load)

See attached video and photos.

Also, When setting Hall sensonr to -60, It had ample power. Lowering busbar current to 30A and sport mode current limiting to 35A seemed to have no effect. It gave so much power the BMS killed it. Could it be the -60 Hall sensor is right, and something else if off?

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

[youtube]mkvLDMkMiBw[/youtube]
[youtube]8aP4UnTWAgE[/youtube]

IMG-20220202-154936.jpg


IMG-20220202-154943.jpg


IMG-20220202-154953.jpg
 
Is it 4 pairs of poles? Is it v type? Hall angle? It must be right! Guessing doesn't help. Find out, it's not difficult...
 
Paulflieg said:
Is it 4 pairs of poles? Is it v type? Hall angle? It must be right! Guessing doesn't help. Find out, it's not difficult...

Hi
Using methods found on this thread, I have figured this is a v type with 4 pole pairs. Unsure about hall angle. What is the correct way of finding the right value?

Thanks!
 
Oldspot said:
Hi all, cannot get PC to connect so now have Bluetooth with android phone, on page one the drop box for model does not work. It appears to connect (red light stops flashing and remains continuous).
The motor works forward and reverse but on display page nothing happens and says the controller is idle.
Any suggestions?

View attachment 1
hello, i have the app too, first of all, there is some main basic setting that needs to be done on the pc, like the type of "Votol Em" and the calibration, even if you can write the calibration on the app it doesn't save it (for an unknown reason),

about the display page i have the same problem since the first time, it shown nothing, and some times it goes crazy by showing like 4900v and 1600a and some faulty (while in fact there is no problem) , but it doesn't really affect it.

i asked the developer of that app, he told me that it's my controller that have a problem (votol em 100s), i'm not sure if he is right about it but its true that i have a problem with acceleration (throttle).

I really suggest you first to set the controller with a pc and then using the app.
1839b08a28444fc83ce97f9607aa27fb.jpg



Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
 
Paulflieg said:
Oldspot said:
Hi all, cannot get PC to connect so now have Bluetooth with android phone, on page one the drop box for model does not work. It appears to connect (red light stops flashing and remains continuous).
The motor works forward and reverse but on display page nothing happens and says the controller is idle.
Any suggestions?

Where did you get the app? Does it exist in English!? Can you share the app?
they added english a week ago, you can find it on the "mini program" in wechat


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
 
dpequad said:
Hello sirs, I am looking for help in calibrating an em-100 with an unknown brand motor. Recently switched from Kelly to the EM-100. I have scoured this thread quite thoroughly and made some progress, currently I am encountering engine tick noise and throttle "stuck" open until I engage regen. (Only when reaching high revs, without load)

See attached video and photos.

Also, When setting Hall sensonr to -60, It had ample power. Lowering busbar current to 30A and sport mode current limiting to 35A seemed to have no effect. It gave so much power the BMS killed it. Could it be the -60 Hall sensor is right, and something else if off?

I don’t think that sound is related to the halls, it’s more likely something mechanical like a bearing or rotor scraping on something.

If you want to try a hall angle sweep then try variating it around the -60 you have now, it’s roughly correct. Lower current to max 30A. No sport mode. Set a new hall angle. Try it with gentle throttle movements, no full on throttles
From to
-60 -50
-60 -70
You can hear when it’s better or worse. Continue in the better direction. If no difference try another 10 deg off
-60 -40
-60 -80
Stop at -30 and -90. Normally 30degs sweep is enough. If the hall angle is totally off then controller can be damaged so be careful if you do this testing.
 
larsb said:
dpequad said:
Hello sirs, I am looking for help in calibrating an em-100 with an unknown brand motor. Recently switched from Kelly to the EM-100. I have scoured this thread quite thoroughly and made some progress, currently I am encountering engine tick noise and throttle "stuck" open until I engage regen. (Only when reaching high revs, without load)

See attached video and photos.

Also, When setting Hall sensonr to -60, It had ample power. Lowering busbar current to 30A and sport mode current limiting to 35A seemed to have no effect. It gave so much power the BMS killed it. Could it be the -60 Hall sensor is right, and something else if off?

I don’t think that sound is related to the halls, it’s more likely something mechanical like a bearing or rotor scraping on something.

If you want to try a hall angle sweep then try variating it around the -60 you have now, it’s roughly correct. Lower current to max 30A. No sport mode. Set a new hall angle. Try it with gentle throttle movements, no full on throttles
From to
-60 -50
-60 -70
You can hear when it’s better or worse. Continue in the better direction. If no difference try another 10 deg off
-60 -40
-60 -80
Stop at -30 and -90. Normally 30degs sweep is enough. If the hall angle is totally off then controller can be damaged so be careful if you do this testing.

Hey larsb,
Currently, it's set to -120. At -60 it puts out much more power (no matter what Busbar current is set). It sounds "angry" and noisy. At -120 it sounds a lot better and more stable (beside the ticking, maybe a bad bearing?) But is considerably less torquey.

Should I try setting it -110 to -130, as you suggested -60?
Could the "throttle issue" be caused by the hall angle?
Thanks.
 
Yes, if the video was at a setting around -120 then start around this, trial range from -120, between -90 to -150 deg.

The throttle issue could be either the hall angle setting or your field weakening settings.

Start with removing field weakening before trying hall angle setting to isolate which of them has which effect. They both affect the stator/rotor magnetic field angle but normally the field weakening is only active at higher speeds.

If you really cannot find a way to remove the overshoot at noload then try it when loaded, sometimes there’s quite a difference between how it behaves.
 
dpequad said:
Hello sirs, I am looking for help in calibrating an em-100 with an unknown brand motor. Recently switched from Kelly to the EM-100. I have scoured this thread quite thoroughly and made some progress, currently I am encountering engine tick noise and throttle "stuck" open until I engage regen. (Only when reaching high revs, without load)

Like larsb said, first set FW value to 0 and FW compensation to 0 (since you selected V magnets) as shown (not the 10000, leave that alone for now. And check the HDC box.
51A7B2BD-7044-4976-8BE5-F9881F676C0F.jpeg

The phase angle SHIFT (not to be confused with commutation phase angle of 60 or 120), can accept values from -180 to 180 (360 degrees), which allows you to get it in sync with your first of 6 commutation steps. Normally this is set during the initial pairing because you may need to swap phase and/or hall wires too.

Normally you will match phase and hall wire colors, then the pairing is done entirely in the software. Are your wire colors all matched or did you try to pair externally by swapping wires around?

The controller in forward will send current to phase 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3…if it runs forward than phase wires are ok (for now), before it automatically means the hall sensors are also 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3.

Of it runs backwards. The current os going to 3-2-1-3-2-1-3-2-1 and so are hall sensors. To get it spinning right BOTH 2 phase and 2 hall wires need to be swapped. Ideally with the software.

If it doesn't want to run at all it means phase is going one direction and hall is going the oher, so you need to swap EITHER 2 phase OR 2 hall, but not both. This will kick you up to the first step wjere it either runs forward or backwards.

If it makes noise when rotating then the #1 hall sensor is out os sync with #1 phase. Thats where hall shift comes in. You can set that -180, -120, —60, 0, 60, 120, or 180. Test all those, ignore the motor rotation if it changes direction but runs smooth and quiet. Once you find the quiet and smooth, if the motor still going forward, you’re paired. If it started going backwards, no problem. Just tick/untick both boxed for phase and hall swap. This will make it change direction but it also puts #1 hall out of sync with #1 phase again, no problem. Just retest all the above degrees until it runs smoothly and quiet in the forward direction.

With FW set to zero and HDC checked, 4400 RPM, it should only run up to its base RPM. Maybe 1200 or so.

If its still making a noise under load or acceleration, you need to tune it. This is where it depends how your controller responds to each setting.
But try making small +/-10% adjustments to these 2 fields until your motor accelerates under load without any unusual noise. If these are far out of tune, when you acceleration you will reach a certain rpm that your motor sounds like it will fall apart, like hitting highway rumble stips at 80 mph.
1DA85D30-0A27-485D-963A-9711ED559C60.jpeg
If your controller is good, then speeds Low Med High will use the first field for %HDC rpm (speed) and the second field for % sport mode amps (torque).

Your high speed second box os set for 5%. If high you have nearly no torque, then set it to 100%. But some controllers that is for boost current and can be set 0-20, which is the percentages of current it will give above sport mode current.

You’re can bus checkbox showing while connected strange. Mine greys out once I connect.

If everything goes ok woth these steps, slowly add back in FW values but until the RPM comes above base speed. You can set HDC rpm to 2400 or 3000 so it cant run away again. Then slowly increase it as you do testing under load.

Final HDC rpm should be set at the maximum rpm you want under normal load after FW is optimised.
 
I’ll just add that with poorly placed hall sensors or the shift between wye or delta connection, not only steps in 60 degrees need to be set for optimal driving.

The 60 deg steps basically mean that you’re matching the driving of the motor to the correct commutation step in the commutation table, when this is found then +/-10, +/-20, +/-30 can fine tune the optimal switching of the controller vs the location of the rotor.

Even better if you have an oscilloscope and tune the hall position exactly with this :D
 
larsb said:
I’ll just add that with poorly placed hall sensors or the shift between wye or delta connection, not only steps in 60 degrees need to be set for optimal driving.

The 60 deg steps basically mean that you’re matching the driving of the motor to the correct commutation step in the commutation table, when this is found then +/-10, +/-20, +/-30 can fine tune the optimal switching of the controller vs the location of the rotor.

Even better if you have an oscilloscope and tune the hall position exactly with this :D

I've tested and compared a bit.
Em150, FW2.32, engine qs 138 v3.

Without burden. So far had hall shift Angel = 60. After many adjustments, 100 seems to be best.... Between 2500-4000 rpm.
But as I said, no driving test.
Can anyone confirm the hall shift angel with this engine?

An oscilloscope should finally bring light into the darkness
 
larsb said:
I’ll just add that with poorly placed hall sensors or the shift between wye or delta connection, not only steps in 60 degrees need to be set for optimal driving.

The 60 deg steps basically mean that you’re matching the driving of the motor to the correct commutation step in the commutation table, when this is found then +/-10, +/-20, +/-30 can fine tune the optimal switching of the controller vs the location of the rotor.

Even better if you have an oscilloscope and tune the hall position exactly with this :D

I tried it on my EM-50 and went +/-30 and 20 and 10 degrees and it didn’t seem to matter, but maybe I didn’t test it correctly. I thought by tweaking it i could set that perfect commutation timing and get smoother quieter operation.

Maybe i have to check torque from 0 rpm because it seems once it starts spinning it uses FOC olus the lookup table from the hall sensor decoder. And above 100 rpm it totally ignores the hall sensor unkess you unplug it, then the motor stops.

I was thinking of putting the front tire against a curb and advancing and retarding it and test for better torque.

1 have 26 pole pairs and 6 commutation each so i think 156 commutations per revolution or 1 every 2.3 degrees.

In theory there is going to be the person spot where sending current in 1 phase wire and our 1 other will have the greatest push and pull on the magnets and give the most torque, and not lose footing when reaching the next commutation step. But my motor feels like some torque forces are dropping out before the new ones kick in, whoch i guess it must do to shift to another phase wire.

But perhaps with perfect timing 1 phase can reach peak while the other phase shifts and then it reaches peak when the other shifts.

I used my hand to try to feel the communication under light throttle and you can feel it is not steady torque but sort of weak and strong torque as I rotate the tire back and forth a few degrees.

However most controllers you only can choose 120 degrees hall shifts by moving each wire over one slot, and somehow that’s always close enough for them to figure out how to run. Thats why I recommend trying every 60 degrees because thats already twice what you can do with the hall wires.
 
larsb said:
Run and run optimally are two different things :wink:

It can be hard to hear the difference, when i’ve tried to optimise i needed to do some rounds of trials before i was happy.

Its been a few months since i played with it but im pretty sure when it was making weird noises due to wrong Current Loop PI settings that i also tweaked the hall shift and tested under load and no change, im pretty sure mine goes into FOC at 100 RPM because it super quiet until i get near where it wants flux weakening. Then it makes a little noise.

Ill try testing again soon as i make my new battery for it.
 
larsb said:
Yes, if the video was at a setting around -120 then start around this, trial range from -120, between -90 to -150 deg.

The throttle issue could be either the hall angle setting or your field weakening settings.

Start with removing field weakening before trying hall angle setting to isolate which of them has which effect. They both affect the stator/rotor magnetic field angle but normally the field weakening is only active at higher speeds.

If you really cannot find a way to remove the overshoot at noload then try it when loaded, sometimes there’s quite a difference between how it behaves.

I realize the displayed Q-current at high RPM is seemingly high (often suggested 200-300 value), makes sense that FW isn't calibrated thus causing throttle issue.
At load, issue goes away.
Okay, I will try what you suggested and post a follow up.
Thank you!


larsb said:
I’ll just add that with poorly placed hall sensors or the shift between wye or delta connection, not only steps in 60 degrees need to be set for optimal driving.

The 60 deg steps basically mean that you’re matching the driving of the motor to the correct commutation step in the commutation table, when this is found then +/-10, +/-20, +/-30 can fine tune the optimal switching of the controller vs the location of the rotor.

Even better if you have an oscilloscope and tune the hall position exactly with this :D


Sadly I don't have access to an Oscilloscope, :)
though I tried all values between -180/+180 at 30 jumps, I found -120 seems best.


BareKuda said:
Like larsb said, first set FW value to 0 and FW compensation to 0 (since you selected V magnets) as shown (not the 10000, leave that alone for now. And check the HDC box.
View attachment 1

The phase angle SHIFT (not to be confused with commutation phase angle of 60 or 120), can accept values from -180 to 180 (360 degrees), which allows you to get it in sync with your first of 6 commutation steps. Normally this is set during the initial pairing because you may need to swap phase and/or hall wires too.

Normally you will match phase and hall wire colors, then the pairing is done entirely in the software. Are your wire colors all matched or did you try to pair externally by swapping wires around?

The controller in forward will send current to phase 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3…if it runs forward than phase wires are ok (for now), before it automatically means the hall sensors are also 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3.

Of it runs backwards. The current os going to 3-2-1-3-2-1-3-2-1 and so are hall sensors. To get it spinning right BOTH 2 phase and 2 hall wires need to be swapped. Ideally with the software.

If it doesn't want to run at all it means phase is going one direction and hall is going the oher, so you need to swap EITHER 2 phase OR 2 hall, but not both. This will kick you up to the first step wjere it either runs forward or backwards.

If it makes noise when rotating then the #1 hall sensor is out os sync with #1 phase. Thats where hall shift comes in. You can set that -180, -120, —60, 0, 60, 120, or 180. Test all those, ignore the motor rotation if it changes direction but runs smooth and quiet. Once you find the quiet and smooth, if the motor still going forward, you’re paired. If it started going backwards, no problem. Just tick/untick both boxed for phase and hall swap. This will make it change direction but it also puts #1 hall out of sync with #1 phase again, no problem. Just retest all the above degrees until it runs smoothly and quiet in the forward direction.

With FW set to zero and HDC checked, 4400 RPM, it should only run up to its base RPM. Maybe 1200 or so.

If its still making a noise under load or acceleration, you need to tune it. This is where it depends how your controller responds to each setting.
But try making small +/-10% adjustments to these 2 fields until your motor accelerates under load without any unusual noise. If these are far out of tune, when you acceleration you will reach a certain rpm that your motor sounds like it will fall apart, like hitting highway rumble stips at 80 mph.

If your controller is good, then speeds Low Med High will use the first field for %HDC rpm (speed) and the second field for % sport mode amps (torque).


First and foremost, thanks for your detailed post. It does not go unappreciated!

Jitter values are set (320-10000), motor feels smooth under all kind of load.
Regarding FW & Compensation values - I admit I haven't been successful in figuring out how to reach pairing. I tried different values but couldn't feel a difference (under load).
(Could someone try explaining what exactly is Flux Compensation?)
Phases are wired correctly as do Hall Sensors. (blue-blue, yellow-yellow). Motor spins forward (Hall sensor -120) and sounds fine mostly, other than ticking (perhaps bearing) noise. No torque issues, last post i noted I have considerably more torque at -60, I was just wondering if I was missing something, but -120 is probably more accurate either way.


BareKuda said:
Your high speed second box os set for 5%. If high you have nearly no torque, then set it to 100%. But some controllers that is for boost current and can be set 0-20, which is the percentages of current it will give above sport mode current.

- Will try playing with high flux and report back.

BareKuda said:
You’re can bus checkbox showing while connected strange. Mine greys out once I connect.

- screens were taken after disconnecting USB from PC

- Will keep you posted, thanks once again.
 
dpequad said:
Jitter values are set (320-10000), motor feels smooth under all kind of load.
Ok, if your tick noise happens even when the controller is off, it might be a bearing, if not you might tweak these settings again with FW off.
Regarding FW & Compensation values - I admit I haven't been successful in figuring out how to reach pairing. I tried different values but couldn't feel a difference (under load).
If its smooth and quiet under all loads and speeds, its paired. But if in doubt you can test other shift angles. I personally did not see any gain with micro-tweaks, i retarded it 60 and is was complaining, i advanced it 60 and it was complaining. Small advance and retard had no effect but i will try again later

(Could someone try explaining what exactly is Flux Compensation?)
As I understand it, for motors with V arranged magnets, it creates a high flux early and you offset it with the flux weakening compensation field. But since i have surfaced magnets thats ignored, but i set it to zero anyway. If you select V magnets it is supposed to use that value to weaken the field.

Phases are wired correctly as do Hall Sensors. (blue-blue, yellow-yellow). Motor spins forward (Hall sensor -120) and sounds fine mostly, other than ticking (perhaps bearing) noise. No torque issues, last post i noted I have considerably more torque at -60, I was just wondering if I was missing something, but -120 is probably more accurate either way.

Sounds paired to me. I paired mine a few times trying to get rid of some noise. Most of the noise went away the the Sync and jitter, but there is still a noise.

If you spin the motor by hand does it tick? How many ticks per revolution?

My motor makes a noise if i move the bike with the controller on. Sounds like when each of my 26 pole pairs trigger 6 commutation steps. Not loud, sounds like a thick bristled push broom being pushed over a brushed concrete.
 
Back
Top