new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

If you put more than trifling pedal power through that, it will skip. Less than 120 degrees of sprocket engagement is a recipe for intractable problems.
 
I suspect the chain wheel just works as chain guide.

maybe when just pedaling it will skip.

With the motor closer to the bb perhaps it won't twist as much under load.
 
From pictures it seems the new kit doesn't have second bracket connecting rear of the motor to BB.
So IMHO they made it worse.

PS. That poor sprocket engagement will only become issue on the "walk of shame" scenario :wink:
 
they r not that crazy :lol:

there is a clamp on the left side

i think its amazing that after al these years they still use these clamps
 

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Some short clips for inspiration…


Snow riding. If you get the chance try it out.
https://youtu.be/fjj4YqcgLTw

Fresh powder.
https://youtu.be/kn2UsLeizOc

Just short clips I texted to friends.

The cyclone thread is from 2015. Wow how time flies. I see it becoming less popular now, hard to get and keep running all that stuff and there’s better choices like cyc and lightning rods for those who’ve learned to figure it out with the cyclone. But I really like the fatbike ride and tire and was wondering about something like the sur-ron in the snow. I’m not impressed after watching this video below. I really want to get 45nrth wrathchild tires down the road, $250 each ouch. We’ll see. Exploring in the snow is really fun even if it’s the woods down the street from my house.

https://youtu.be/qFxa6tUD2uw
 
Skaiwerd said:
Some short clips for inspiration…


Snow riding. If you get the chance try it out.
https://youtu.be/fjj4YqcgLTw

Fresh powder.
https://youtu.be/kn2UsLeizOc

Just short clips I texted to friends.

The cyclone thread is from 2015. Wow how time flies. I see it becoming less popular now, hard to get and keep running all that stuff and there’s better choices like cyc and lightning rods for those who’ve learned to figure it out with the cyclone. But I really like the fatbike ride and tire and was wondering about something like the sur-ron in the snow. I’m not impressed after watching this video below. I really want to get 45nrth wrathchild tires down the road, $250 each ouch. We’ll see. Exploring in the snow is really fun even if it’s the woods down the street from my house.

https://youtu.be/qFxa6tUD2uw

I use my Cyclone almost daily for trail riding; including snow and cold temps (currently -29C today). The motor itself is a brute and takes everything I throw at it. I ride with 26 x 4.8 Maxxis Minions and although they aren't really a "snow" tire like many of the 45nrth etc...; they perform great in the snow. The key is to lower your pressure for max float without the rim bottoming out or having too much self steer from the tire.

My max snow depth on that bike is about 20cm and then it's no longer ridable. Many expensive fat bike tires like the wrathchilds you mentioned are also designed to be lightweight; I'd rather have the durability of the Minions + a good tube than less weight. I was also able to stud my front Minion with some Aliexpress studs (see my Blizzard build).
 
Has anyone tried the "tiny" 200 phase amp controller in a high power application yet? Looks too good to be true.
 
Just bringing this up in the ranks. Not so easy to get anymore but a lot of us got our start with the cyclone. 60a version here. It’s worth it to start out.

https://youtu.be/7tyO6lUXN2U
 
Hi Everyone, It is always a pleasure to read your experiences. I was thinking of filling my motor/gearbox with Automatic transmission oil. ( 30% of the volume left empty) so that could benefit to the cooling and to the noise of the gears. What do you guys think :)
 
Overheating? Likely the heat comes from the where the wiring is in the motor and not the planetary gear box. ATF? Try it. Maybe the seals will hold it? Get a bigger motor if this one gets hot. Add some thermocouples to some locations on the motor and test.

The noise location?? Maybe before you condemn the gearbox & grease invest in sound intensity meter? Then you can measure sound intensity (generation) at the gearbox and at the dual sprocket bottom bracket hub.

I just had an unmounted Cyclone 3k motor with gearbox housing in place & OEM grease running on the bench -- very quiet.

I have a sound intensity meter and have used it on several bikes with Cyclone 3k motors. The preponderance of noise comes from the location where the 2 chain drives meet on the BB axle.
 
jordison said:
they r not that crazy :lol:

there is a clamp on the left side

i think its amazing that after al these years they still use these clamps

Lol what the hell is that... budget cuts? Why didn't they go with cardboard. I can only imagine the flex :shock:

I'm fortunate enough to have a prototype of a heavy duty bracket made by sickbikeparts, don't mind the zip tie to downtube connection... it gave up pretty quickly lol, replaced it with u-bolt, its rock solid now.
Sadly after looking at their site it seems they gave up on the cyclone3k and most likely this bracket.
 

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dekes1 said:
Without pedaling, I've seen a maximum speed of 35mph/56kph. My battery pack is a 14s10p pack which is 58.8 volts fully charged and between 52.5 -55 nominal. The controller is listed as a 40amp continuous and 100 amp peak capable. I use a PowerLog 6s meter to measure only 6 cells of my pack and I have seen 50amps peak current draw. I suspect that's the most i'll ever get out of my 18650 cells.
if you had a battery pack capable of 60amps or more, I'd guess the motor (and correct gearing) would push you over 45mph/72kph. My bike is on the ragged edge at 35mph and I usually ride below 30mph.

What range are you getting with that setup? How agressive? Im trying to get an idea of what battery capacity I would want.
 
I made another trip to the beach. A new rear wheel has brought this bike back to life. The heavy front wheel helps keep the front end down. A lower, shorter stem has been added since these pictures, I’m liking it! I was sort of bummed at first that I had to pay for non resident parking/beach access of $20 and an additional $20 for a holiday. I soon realized I was being allowed to enter and ride my ebike at the town beach. It’s clearly not a normal bike. The ridges made of the shells are almost not walkable so you can imagine riding on them. Like on snow going to slow is not going to work. I was riding the unridable unless you have proper machinery.
 

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Hi. I have just destroyed another rear hub using this kit. I have it set up on a downhill bike/backpack battery and love riding it. Is there a solution to continually stripping the teeth on the drive ring (the inside of the hub where the pawls engage). I have thought of using JB WELD to lock it all in place, but it probably wouldn't hold and a fixed wheel would be a bit weird using this motor. Any thoughts on what type of hub to use or a way of preventing this from happening as often. I live in a pretty hilly area.
 
Your are exceeding the strength of generic bike parts.

Lace to your rim a steel hub with threads for a screw-on freewheel. Thread on a White Industries Ultimate freewheel with a single sprocket bolted to it. This set up works for a 15000 watt edirtbike. It is likely to work for hill riding with a 3K motor.

Yes------ one speed

You could skip the WI rear freewheel and just thread on a sprocket but your chain then moves whenever the rear wheel moves..coasting.


IMG_1671.jpg

IMG_1672.jpg
 
OT I know but could a rig be devised that would allow a Rohloff to be used, max 130N.m ??

or would the Kindernay VII be better?

DingusMcGee said:
Your are exceeding the strength of generic bike parts.

Lace to your rim a steel hub with threads for a screw-on freewheel. Thread on a White Industries Ultimate freewheel with a single sprocket bolted to it. This set up works for a 15000 watt edirtbike. It is likely to work for hill riding with a 3K motor.

Yes------ one speed



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john61ct,

I see you have done the torque math but not the observations of trail riding? Wilto70 says he does hill riding. Likely he sometimes gets rear wheel bounce. When the rear wheel bounces into the air with full throttle on the wheel rapidly gets to high rpm. Upon the spinning wheel landing and digging into dirt and rocks, this impact generated shock torque is transmitted into the geartrain -- what will the 130 N.m High $$ Rohloff do?

Blow apart?

Maybe you could account for shock loading torques?
 
DingusMcGee said:
Likely he sometimes gets rear wheel bounce
That very specific question, yes maybe OT not related to the thread context.

In my use cases the wheel will always (99.9999%) have firm contact with the ground. Not for sport, slow, very heavy, pure utility, no "fun" intended.



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John61ct,

You are dreaming again?

In a design dream storm You can make up any conditions you want for ebike use but for this scenario you have failed to specify what the maximun pre-gearing drivetrain torque is that is feeding the Rholoff which is rated at 130....

Heuristics of Design

1. If it can happen, it will.


2. Interchangeable parts don't.
 
I am the noob here, I have no idea, that is what I thought I'm asking here, isn't that number referenced by Rohloffits max input torque ?

I meant wrt "this kit", referenced in this post
Wilto70 said:
Hi. I have just destroyed another rear hub using this kit. I have it set up on a downhill bike/backpack battery and love riding it. Is there a solution to continually stripping the teeth on the drive ring (the inside of the hub where the pawls engage). I have thought of using JB WELD to lock it all in place, but it probably wouldn't hold and a fixed wheel would be a bit weird using this motor. Any thoughts on what type of hub to use or a way of preventing this from happening as often. I live in a pretty hilly area.

asking if the topic drivetrain motor topic of this thread can be / has been used with the IGH, if it is robust enough.




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John61ct,

the use a Safety Factor may hint at whether the IGH is suited for an application. We do not know much about the 130 torque rating. Was the the number derived from a single destructive test? Is the test(s) an average? An average of how many? Better yet is it a 3-sigma rating for a series of tests to failure of the Rholoff hub? Or is the rating number just an "engineering calculation"?

For a minimum design safety factor i suggest using 2. 130/2 = 65. Likely the Rholoff would be a marginal member not entirely suited to a cyclone 3k cargo bike unless the max load was one acorn. But squirrels carry nuts safely.
 
The priority is driving the Rohloff at the upper end of its capacity. If that means breaking pins to find the limits for a given motor that's fine.

This is only for the human assisted right side drivetrain. The left side much more powerful drive will be completely separate.

Maybe others can give it a try? Dingus feel free to ignore rather than going on about squirrels, maybe I'm just not neurotypical enough to grok that analogy

 
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