Oatnet's x5403/Norco A-line, and Front-Mount battery stuff

Kepler said:
One other thing I like with the front mount is the balance of the bike when just wheeling it and parking. The bike actually feels lighter with the weight evenly distributed. You guys know what its like to pick the rear wheel up by the back of the seat when parking. The weight of the hub and batteries combined always feels wrong. Feels much more bike like now.

Definitely an advantage of a small light LiCo pack and your beautiful stealth builds - the high-WH LiFe packs I've used so far weigh way more than the hub motors, so parking it feels more like a motorcycle. OTOH, the xlyte 5403 weighs so much that on this build it might match the pack.

Very interesting reading. Oatnet, I love your work - and your insight into front mount packs is fascinating.
...
Sorry to highjack your thread, but you are the only person I can find truly talking from both a theoretical and practical experience perspective on this topic.

Thanks for the kind words sparkcrx, and your post was on-topic not a hijack. :D I sorta stumbled into the benefits from a front battery configuration, so the theoretical discussion is trying to understand why it works, and then explain it to others. I'm getting better at it - and the bicycle handling wiki really helps - but at first I didn't have the vocabulary to do it justice. I am really pleased to see people I have huge respect for - like Kepler and JohnRobHolmes - having success with the same thing.

-JD
 
the biggest thing for me oatnet was how at some point someone pointed out weight up front makes it feel less stable when standing still testing it out, but that doesn't translate to once you are moving.
 
I agree with that statement as well, the weight high and forward really helps the high speed handling, especially cornering. although at low speed it feels like it wants to fall over all the time.
 
Another work of art from Mind of Magudaman

I couldn't be more pleased about how this turned out. :mrgreen:

Thanks Justin! :D


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I just realized that I never posted about the Gravity Gap seatpost I got for this rig. The seatpost has been at a steep angle on the last couple of frames I've built, leaving the nose of the seat a bit more familiar with the twig and berries than I want. I'd like to think that the twig is the problem, but more likely it is the old-man sag in the berries.

At any rate, I tried a bunch of seaposts that couldn't adjust far enough forward, until I tried the infinitely adjustable Gravity Gap seatpost. It holds the rails of the seat in sort of a rounded sandwich, that can rotate around the axis, so any position is possible. It is a zero offset head too, which moves the rider (and mass) a litte further forward, and as one reviewer sait "can't snap off and rape you on a hard landing." :shock:

The white goes great with the white paint on both Norco A-Lines too.

T100086N3
 

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Simply awesome! Your bike is the boss!

And are both your A-Lines sporting Magudaman custom drop-outs???
 
MattyCiii said:
Simply awesome! Your bike is the boss!

And are both your A-Lines sporting Magudaman custom drop-outs???

Thanks Matty! :D As you can see everything fit just right, really impressive, thorough work. Shoot, he even included hex bolts to mount the controller. The slender cutout he added to the top really helps it hide. The windowing is excellent, and note how he leaves it off around the clamp mount, for strength. The behind-the-seatpost location works really well for me, I get no interference when spinning the pedals. I might consider adding some fenders, but heck I pay weather tax to live in SoCal, so it is typically dry.

The first set of dropouts Magudaman made were for me, but that is the only set I have. I hope to get on his waiting list for a few more sets when the 54xx motors get here. :D

-JD
 
looking really nice mate! the handle bar mounted batts look waaay better than frame mounted ones! I'm swiching mine over atm too.

how long till we see some vids of it in action?
 
Thanks Zombie and Sn0w!

Sn0w are you gonna do a gensem mount? I've been working on a 175v batt for my VW bus conversion (click here) but after that is done I'll be back to working on this. I'm really building it up to be a mule for the 54xx motor so its planted until that gets here, although if i finish it early I might spark up the old 5305 that's in the pics and see if the battery helps keep the front end down. :lol:
 
I've had time to get this mule assembled, I have pics of various parts of construction that I am uploading from my iphone right now, and I'll post later if anyone wants to see them.

This will be getting the 5403 from the group buy, laced in Moped rims and Gazelles by JRH. Right now it has a standard 26" front wheel and a 5305 in the rear wheel (same diameter as the 5403) to roll it around. Front brake is a 9" rotor with a Gatorbrake 4 pot from Methods, both for a 2010 Zero moto. I thought the adaptor was going to fit, but the pad is only 1/2 over the rotor, so I guess I'll have to ghetto one up.

The front pack is 24s of 16ah a123 prisimatics (I thought I had used 20ah pouches earlier, I was confused :oops: ). It has my standard 2-series-powerswitches-with-resistor setup hidden under the Pelican case, switched fused power for the Luminator, and a fused lead for charging so I never have to open the case. Inside I have 2 parallel 90a circuit breakers which should hold out for at least 250a. I used 4ga wire from the battery box, and all power connections are quad 45a anderson PP, rated for 180a total, but I'd be comfortable putting 360a through them.

I'm using a Methods 100v100a OG controller, running at 72v nominal so it has some headroom for driving the higher-kv "xx03" winding. As seen earlier, the dropouts and controller mount are Magudaman custom builds.


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Outstanding!
Remarkably successful in pulling off the stealth look - the couple of odd not-bike pieces really don't push any 'Powered Bike' buttons - I'm thinking the massive frame has a lot to do with it.
 
Impressive result. Great work! Not an easy task to make a high powered bike still look like a normal bike. You going to freak out a few motorists out on the road with this thing as you leave them in your dust at the lights :mrgreen:
 
Oatnet, your A-Line and Adams both set an extremely high standard for meticulous planning, quality craftsmanship, and flawless execution. Each a work of art!
 
MattyCiii said:
Oatnet, your A-Line and Adams both set an extremely high standard for meticulous planning, quality craftsmanship, and flawless execution. Each a work of art!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

your right though, these do show my work up to a pretty massive degree. I just tried to build a 8ah pack for the front, but sadly im about 5mm short of fitting it all in, and ive gone and bought another case big enough for 10ah + a charger but its too damn deep! :cry: :cry: :cry:

It looks like the shock under full compression may hit the bottom of the case? or is it propped out enough that the support bar will go behind the case?
looks great though. very subtle for so much power!
 
Well of course I meant no disrespect to the rest of us us A-Liners (and Andje the E-Liner)!

These builds just set the bar very high, and are an inspiration to strive for the best.

Meanwhile my A-Line frame cowers behind the living room couch in shame, not even rigged up to work as a kick-bike :cry:
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Shameful!
 
Thanks Teklektik! Having everything oversized helps, from a distance. Up close, a lot of people do double-takes at the size, especially children.

Thanks Kepler! You are right, it took a lot of work to make this bike look uncomplicated, I know from your stealth builds you appreciate that.

Thanks MattyCiii! I really like where Adam is going with his build.

Thanks Ypedal! I remembered you asking me about that luminator I bought a LONG time ago, and wondered if you would remember it... Yep, it TOTALLY rocks. I planned to put a matching one on the right side - now I am not sure I need one. Hmm, when I go to 144v, I could probably put two in series...

sn0wy, I disagree, your build rocks and you have been riding it while I have been being a heatshrink Nazi. With so many builds it is hard to not get lost in the mix - I'll bet 98% of the people here don't remember 10% of my builds. The builds that get remembered are from people who post 20 times a day.

Anyhow, full compression on the front shock is indeed close to the case, but based on my measurements it should just barely clear, sliding behind the case a little... This is a street ride only - well I may ride on the surf some - so I should only see full 200mm compression on a pothole big enough to give me other problems.

Anyhow, onto some build photos. You may remember the packs I terminated in my a123 prisimatic pack building thread:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=29959&start=15#p555239

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oatnet said:
[The Luminator] TOTALLY rocks. I planned to put a matching one on the right side - now I am not sure I need one.
I'd suggest putting something, anything on the other side, so oncoming cars/cars pulling out of side streets see some width. Maybe "just" a magic shine would do.

Love the great close-ups!
 
Hello Oatnet,

Im trying to order clamps, like the ones you use
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200344869444&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

To test if they better compared to my glued box, but the deal is... I have a couple for DNM Volcano forks that I want to use, but the upper part of the stanchion is 42mm dia. (around 1.64" dia) but im not being able to find a standard clamp that fits.

Do you know about any other clamp manufacturer?
 
These are very neat clamps and the folks who sell them (Wehrs Machine) machine these and other goodies themselves. I gave them a ring (easier from the US than Brazil) to see about a custom batch of 6 or 8 made to your spec. They do these in batches and just got done with a run so won't be back at it again for some time. They did say that they would machine some custom reducer sleeves to your exact size for about an extra $5 per clamp assuming about 6-8 clamps. I spoke with "A.J." if you get in touch with them.

Another approach is to order some good quality aluminum tubing and make your own reducer sleeves - just cut the proper width and slit or split the tube so it will collapse a bit when tightened down. You could do this for each clamp or just one long piece per tube. I buy telescoping tubing from DX Engineering in 3 foot lengths (cheap to ship). It looks like their 1 3/4" tubing would be perfect.

Frankly, the extra $5 per clamp is a pretty good buy for a perfect fit...
 
These are very neat clamps and the folks who sell them (Wehrs Machine) machine these and other goodies themselves. I gave them a ring (easier from the US than Brazil) to see about a custom batch of 6 or 8 made to your spec. They do these in batches and just got done with a run so won't be back at it again for some time. They did say that they would machine some custom reducer sleeves to your exact size for about an extra $5 per clamp assuming about 6-8 clamps. I spoke with "A.J." if you get in touch with them.

Thats odd... I left a message on ebay this afternoon about the 1.64" dia size and asked for 15 pieces and still no go... He did not offered the sleeves, even tho 5$ would be 75$ just for sleeves...
I will try again see how it goes and report back, just dont plan on doing it myself.
 
gensem said:
Thats odd... I left a message on ebay this afternoon about the 1.64" dia size and asked for 15 pieces and still no go... He did not offered the sleeves, even tho 5$ would be 75$ just for sleeves...
We see how it goes and report back, just dont plan on doing it myself.
Difference was that I called them on the phone :) - they probably only check eBay messages from time to time and will get back to you sometime soon.

You might get a bit better price for 15 pcs (Wow! That's a lot!!) - I didn't ask for that many. They were going to make these up by turning down some thick-walled tubing, so I don't think there is an option to get a smaller number of long adapters made (one for each fork tube) but it might be worth looking into. Also - if you want 15, maybe they would consider jigging up the mill and just making 15 custom clamps in a short run. I can contact them tomorrow for you if you wish.

The size you need (1.64") is just a little off from 1 5/8" (1.625) but it's kind of an odd tubing size, so matching clamps are looking hard to come by.
 
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