Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

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Jostling   1 mW

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Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by Jostling » Aug 22 2013 1:04pm

Hi, I am new to this forum but can see that members seem very competent in the area of my current e-bike problem.
I have bought a 36 volt battery and a 36V Q100, 328 rpm, 28" , KU63-24V/15A, e-bike kit from BMS battery.
Unfortunately, the delivered motor was the 24 V version. Is there anyone that may have experience from running a 24V, 323 rpm motor on 36 V, 10 Ah battery (max 20A) ? What would I need to do, to reconfigure the KU63 controller and the Q100 motor ?

PS. 28" wheel and 323 rpm motor may sound like a bad choice but plan is to pedal assist motor most of the ride.


Many Thanks from Sweden

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Russell   10 MW

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Re: Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by Russell » Aug 22 2013 6:01pm

I bought a so-called "24V" Mini motor from Golden Motor several years ago and have run it on 12S LiPo (50V) for many miles. I say "so-called" because hub motors should not be called 24V, 36V, 48V or whatever since it's the RPM/V (also called KV) that matters. My "24V" motor simply spins at 9.1 RPM/V and I can run it at any voltage I like. So you likely were sent a "328 RPM" (at 36V) motor but the only way to know is to run it and see.

If the controller is sold as a 24V model then it likely has its LVC (low volt cutoff) set for a 24V battery. This is only a problem if your battery pack doesn't have a BMS with LVC protection and you planned on relying on the controller to keep the battery pack from over-discharging. If you don't care about the LVC setting on the controller then the only thing you need to check is whether the components in the controller can handle the higher voltage. The controller is probably designed for 24/36V operation so it almost certainly will work for you however just to be sure open it up and check the voltage rating on the electrolytic capacitors and also get the model numbers of the mosfets used. Look up the data sheet for the FETs to find their voltage rating.

-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


My other E-Bikes: Nashbar Steel Flatbar

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chisixer6   1 kW

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Re: Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by chisixer6 » Aug 22 2013 6:06pm

I have the 24v cutie 100 type and and a 36v controller, run it with a 12s lipo for most of this year, run great. no problems.
Motobecane ..bafang front driver.. 42v
24" girls bike ..ebikekit 20" fwd..75v
24" Schweinn 9c 20"rwd 75v
26" Schweinn Yescomusa 48v 800watt dd
Easy Racer clone LWB.....24" rear e-bikekit 48v ..ready for testing
Hooligan clone , longer rear chain stay.. twin 20"...
fun bike...twin 16" wheels. small rear motor... ready for testing
convert my CLWB recumbent to a front bafung@48v..ongoing

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Re: Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by d8veh » Aug 23 2013 4:06am

You can't run the 24v 328 rpm motor on a 700c wheel at 36v. That would be 45 mph from a motor the size of your hand.

The cheapest solution is to buy a bare 36v version and swap the cores, which isn't a big job.

Even the 36v 328 rpm version will struggle in a 700c wheel. You should only do this if you're a regular sports cyclist, who can pedal hard enough to maintain the higher speed. You also need to provide most of the power up to 15mph, where the motor starts to take over.

A much better solution is to run a 36v 201 rpm version with 12S lipos at 48v, which will give about 22mph, which is the limit of this little motor for normal use.

Jostling   1 mW

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Re: Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by Jostling » Aug 23 2013 7:52am

d8veh wrote:You can't run the 24v 328 rpm motor on a 700c wheel at 36v. That would be 45 mph from a motor the size of your hand.

The cheapest solution is to buy a bare 36v version and swap the cores, which isn't a big job.

Even the 36v 328 rpm version will struggle in a 700c wheel. You should only do this if you're a regular sports cyclist, who can pedal hard enough to maintain the higher speed. You also need to provide most of the power up to 15mph, where the motor starts to take over.

A much better solution is to run a 36v 201 rpm version with 12S lipos at 48v, which will give about 22mph, which is the limit of this little motor for normal use.
Thanks d8veh and yes I realize that 24v 328 rpm on a 28" will discharge at too high current.

If buy the 36 V version (328 or 201 rpm) and swap the core as you suggests ,
-can I still use the KU63 24V rated controller that I received?
-can I modify the 24 V controller so it become 36 v rated (how) ?
-íf it is better to buy a new controller from BMSBATTERY, which one should I order?

-Does anyone know if the BMSBATTERY S series controller with Torque Simulation are any good or should I go for the KU63 36 Volt ?
-Does anyone know what is the difference between BMSBATTERY KU63 and KU65 controller ?

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Cute Q100 gearbox 24 V vs. 36 V

Post by Jostling » Aug 23 2013 8:07am

Hi, I' am trying to understand what is the difference with regard to planetary gear/cogwheels between

- Cute Q100 24 V 201 rpm VS. Cute Q100 36 V 201 rpm
- Cute Q100 24 V 328 rpm VS. Cute Q100 36 V 328 rpm
(recent production line).
-Is there any difference in the quality and material of the gear set?
-Any difference in the sound/noice that these motors make?

AND MOST IMPORTANT:
-I assume it is possible to move (swap) the complete core between a Cute Q100-24 V -328 rpm and a Cute Q100-36 V -201 rpm hub, but it is also possible to move (swap) only the planetary gear set between the 24 V and 36 V versions?

Further more,
-Is it possible to modify a 24 V, 328 rpm into a 36 V, 328 rpm version ?

Many thanks for your help.

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docnjoj   100 GW

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Re: Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by docnjoj » Aug 23 2013 9:09am

Does anyone know if the BMSBATTERY S series controller with Torque Simulation are any good or should I go for the KU63 36 Volt
?

I just got the S12S and a pedelec system and I will test it next week. Don't know nuttin' yet.
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by d8veh » Aug 23 2013 6:13pm

Jostling wrote: If buy the 36 V version (328 or 201 rpm) and swap the core as you suggests ,
-can I still use the KU63 24V rated controller that I received?
-can I modify the 24 V controller so it become 36 v rated (how) ?
-íf it is better to buy a new controller from BMSBATTERY, which one should I order?

-Does anyone know if the BMSBATTERY S series controller with Torque Simulation are any good or should I go for the KU63 36 Volt ?
-Does anyone know what is the difference between BMSBATTERY KU63 and KU65 controller ?
You can modify the controller, but they're so cheap, if you've got to buy a motor, you might as well get a 36v controller with it. The 24v controller will work OK with a 36v battery. The only thing you lose is the low voltage cut-off, which happens at a much lower voltage. Most BMSs will cut off when the voltage goes to low, but you need to check yours. It's no problem if you never run your battery right down.

A couple of our UK forum members have tried the S06S controllers, and they gave favourable reports. I've got the S012S, but it only arrived yesterday, so no chance to play yet.

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Cute Q100, swap gearset 24-36 V version

Post by Jostling » Aug 24 2013 9:04am

Hi,
I am about to order a 36 v Cute Q100 motor and need to decide on 201 or 328 rpm version.

I already have a Cute Q100 24V, 328 rmp and would like to know if it is possible to swap the gear set "planetary cog wheel unit" between this hub and the hub of a Q100 36 V, 201 rpm hub ?

(i.e, resulting in one Q100 24V, 201 rpm and one Q100 36 V, 328 rpm motor)

It would be great if this is possibe as that would allow me to find the best gear/speed ratio by real life testing.

Thanks for your help

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Russell   10 MW

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Re: Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by Russell » Aug 24 2013 6:14pm

How fast does your "24V" motor spin? If you don't know I suggest you try it before ordering another motor.

I am presently using a Q100 "201 RPM" motor with 700 x 32 tires. It's a pleasant enough little motor but a little slow with a top speed of 21 MPH on 12S LiPo. It actually spins at 6.2 RPM/V by my reckoning (223 RPM@36V nominal unloaded).

I had been using a GoldenMotor "24V" motor (actually a Bafang) which is about 15mm larger in diameter than a Cute Q100 and it spun at 9.1 RPM/V (328 RPM@36V nominal unloaded). Top speed on 700 x 40 tires was around 29 MPH on 12S LiPo/20A controller and a bit less than 27 MPH using the same battery but with a 15A limit. This motor loudly complained if the speed dropped below 14 MPH under a heavy load but it was a lot of fun. A fast little motor like this is best used on a good pedaling bike over easier terrain with a lot of input from the rider to keep it in its "happy zone".

I don't own the "328 RPM" Cute Q100 but from the ebikes.ca simulator it appears to spin even faster than rated or about 356 RPM@36V nominal unloaded (9.9 RPM/V).

My recommendation would be to first see what your "24V" motor spins at before ordering something else because you may have a "328 RPM" motor (@36V) right now. If your motor spins at 328 RPM at 24V, and I doubt it does, then that of course is too fast.

FYI, ebikes.ca has started carrying small geared motors with the standard wind at 7.8V/RPM which would be perfect for a road bike.


-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


My other E-Bikes: Nashbar Steel Flatbar

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Re: Cute Q100, swap gearset 24-36 V version

Post by d8veh » Aug 25 2013 6:25am

Jostling wrote:Hi,
I am about to order a 36 v Cute Q100 motor and need to decide on 201 or 328 rpm version.

I already have a Cute Q100 24V, 328 rmp and would like to know if it is possible to swap the gear set "planetary cog wheel unit" between this hub and the hub of a Q100 36 V, 201 rpm hub ?

(i.e, resulting in one Q100 24V, 201 rpm and one Q100 36 V, 328 rpm motor)

It would be great if this is possibe as that would allow me to find the best gear/speed ratio by real life testing.

Thanks for your help
You swap the entire core of each motor. The housing is the same. Here''s a photo of what's inside.The core is the bit in the middle at the back:

Image

Jostling   1 mW

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Re: Cute Q100, swap gearset 24-36 V version

Post by Jostling » Aug 25 2013 10:08am

d8veh wrote:
Jostling wrote:Hi,
I am about to order a 36 v Cute Q100 motor and need to decide on 201 or 328 rpm version.

I already have a Cute Q100 24V, 328 rmp (front hub) and would like to know if it is possible to swap the gear set "planetary cog wheel unit" between this hub and the hub of a Q100 36 V, 201 rpm hub ?

(i.e, resulting in one Q100 24V, 201 rpm and one Q100 36 V, 328 rpm motor)

It would be great if this is possibe as that would allow me to find the best gear/speed ratio by real life testing.

Thanks for your help
You swap the entire core of each motor. The housing is the same. Here''s a photo (above) of what's inside.The core is the bit in the middle at the back:
Thanks d8veh. I understand that the core can easily be swaped. It is just that I am now trying to understand if I can use the gear cogwheels from my "24V, 328 rpm" unit and move them onto a "36V, 201 rpm" unit. If that would be possible I would order the "Q100 36V 201 rpm" unit and I could then first test the 201 rpm configuration (swap the complete core) in real life on my commute path and if it is too slow I could instead use the cogs from my current "24V 328 rpm" unit and test that. If it seem too difficult to swap cogwheels between a 328 and 201 rpm unit, I think I would order the "36V 328 rpm" hub instead (I would prefere speed over climb, although I have a few hills and it is sometimes quite windy on my path to work).

(I realize that the 36V 201 rpm hub with a 48V battery may have been the better option, but now I have to live with my 10 Ah 36V LiFePO4)

I have searched this and other forums for info on the cogwheels of various Q100 versions but found nothing useful so far. But I realize, if anyone, you may have the experience I am looking for here.

I have opened up my 24V, 328 rpm hub and the gearset looks very similar to that in the 36V 201 rpm unit seen in your picture. Counting cogs on my "24V, 328 rpm" give the following;

-core axis wheel=15
-nylon wheel, outer part =36
-nylon wheel, inner part=23
-metal "coronal" cover wheel= 78

If I have done the math correctly (36/15* 78/23 ) this give a gear ratio of 1:8.14

OR, could it be that the gear wheels of a 24V, 328 rpm hub has exactly the same metrics as those in a 36V, 201 rpm hub ?
How many cogs are there on each of the cogwheels of a "Q100 36V 201 rpm" front drive unit?

Anyone that know what the "gearbox" of a Q100 36V, 328 rpm front drive unit look like ?

Again, many thanks for your efforts on this forum.

------------------
Hi again, I just realized that I may have misunderstood the difference between Q100 201 and 328 rmp versions. I have thought that torque and speed is adjusted via the gear ratio but just realized that this might as well be tailored by different winding. Can anyone confirm that gear cogwheels are exactly the same on all Q100 versions (24V201rpm, 24V328rpm, 36V201rpm, 36V328rpm) and that it instead is 4 different winding configuration that result in 4 different Q100 versions ? Thanks.
-------------------

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Re: Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by d8veh » Aug 26 2013 5:38am

All the gearwheels are the same. The speed difference comes from the method of winding the coils in the motor. The 24v 201 rpm motors have single stage gears, but the whole assembly is still in the same hub as the two-stage gear ones.

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Re: Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by Jostling » Aug 26 2013 5:56am

d8veh wrote:All the gearwheels are the same. The speed difference comes from the method of winding the coils in the motor. The 24v 201 rpm motors have single stage gears, but the whole assembly is still in the same hub as the two-stage gear ones.

So just for clarification, are the follwing statements correct ?
-24V201rpm has single stage gear
-24V2328 rpm has two-stage gear
-36V201rpm has two-stage gear
-36V328rpm has two-stage gear

If so this means I am left with a difficult decision. Should I order the Q100 36V201rpm or the 36V328 rpm version?
My commute route is 2x18 km, approx 20% through a forest with some hills (not steep), 50% flat, less windy and 30 % flat but sometimes quite windy. I need the pedal exercise but also need to make the 18 Km commute pleasant enough to keep doing it on a daily basis. My bike is a 28" hybrid, Alfine 11 gear hub and hydraulic 160 mm disc brakes. The battery I now have is the 10 Ah 36V LiFePO4.

What if I would go for the 36V328 rpm + 36V/KU63 controller with soldered shunt so it can deliver 18 A (my battery can deliver 20 A ?)
Or, maybe the 36V201 rpm may be a good start and then at a later stage I may upgrade to a 48 V battery.

I realize the Q100 will be a compromise but which alternative would you say is still best (and which controller shoudl I go for)?
(the hydraulic disc break caliper limits what hub motor I can use)

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Re: Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by d8veh » Aug 27 2013 4:26am

You can't use the 328 rpm motors in a 28" wheel. The controller will overheat as well as the motor, and your battery is only rated at 10 amps continuous and the controller will be giving maximum (15A) most of the time. The best speed they can manage is about 22 mph, which would be 270 rpm in a 26" wheel or 250 rpm in a 28" one. It's always a problem to get the right speed. The only way to get between 201 rpm and 328 rpm is to use 12S lipos on a 201 rpm 36v one, otherwise you need a 250 rpm 36v motor. It's advisable not to go any higher than 15 amps with your battery. 18 amps would be OK if you have a system the doesn't use the maximum for too long.

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Re: Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by patpatbut » Aug 27 2013 4:03pm

Hi all,

I am on the same boat and try to decide what motor I should get for my 16" brompton.

Considering I only have 36v 12Ah lifepo4 battery to get 20mph, I want to try q100 24v 328rpm.

The only concern is would that damage the motor internally by overvolting the motor?

Pat

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Re: Cute Q100, swap gearset 24-36 V version

Post by motomech » Jun 17 2015 2:24pm

Jostling wrote:
d8veh wrote:
Jostling wrote:Hi,
I am about to order a 36 v Cute Q100 motor and need to decide on 201 or 328 rpm version.

I already have a Cute Q100 24V, 328 rmp (front hub) and would like to know if it is possible to swap the gear set "planetary cog wheel unit" between this hub and the hub of a Q100 36 V, 201 rpm hub ?

(i.e, resulting in one Q100 24V, 201 rpm and one Q100 36 V, 328 rpm motor)

It would be great if this is possibe as that would allow me to find the best gear/speed ratio by real life testing.

Thanks for your help
You swap the entire core of each motor. The housing is the same. Here''s a photo (above) of what's inside.The core is the bit in the middle at the back:
Thanks d8veh. I understand that the core can easily be swaped. It is just that I am now trying to understand if I can use the gear cogwheels from my "24V, 328 rpm" unit and move them onto a "36V, 201 rpm" unit. If that would be possible I would order the "Q100 36V 201 rpm" unit and I could then first test the 201 rpm configuration (swap the complete core) in real life on my commute path and if it is too slow I could instead use the cogs from my current "24V 328 rpm" unit and test that. If it seem too difficult to swap cogwheels between a 328 and 201 rpm unit, I think I would order the "36V 328 rpm" hub instead (I would prefere speed over climb, although I have a few hills and it is sometimes quite windy on my path to work).

(I realize that the 36V 201 rpm hub with a 48V battery may have been the better option, but now I have to live with my 10 Ah 36V LiFePO4)

I have searched this and other forums for info on the cogwheels of various Q100 versions but found nothing useful so far. But I realize, if anyone, you may have the experience I am looking for here.

I have opened up my 24V, 328 rpm hub and the gearset looks very similar to that in the 36V 201 rpm unit seen in your picture. Counting cogs on my "24V, 328 rpm" give the following;

-core axis wheel=15
-nylon wheel, outer part =36
-nylon wheel, inner part=23
-metal "coronal" cover wheel= 78

If I have done the math correctly (36/15* 78/23 ) this give a gear ratio of 1:8.14

OR, could it be that the gear wheels of a 24V, 328 rpm hub has exactly the same metrics as those in a 36V, 201 rpm hub ?
How many cogs are there on each of the cogwheels of a "Q100 36V 201 rpm" front drive unit?

Anyone that know what the "gearbox" of a Q100 36V, 328 rpm front drive unit look like ?

Again, many thanks for your efforts on this forum.

------------------
Hi again, I just realized that I may have misunderstood the difference between Q100 201 and 328 rmp versions. I have thought that torque and speed is adjusted via the gear ratio but just realized that this might as well be tailored by different winding. Can anyone confirm that gear cogwheels are exactly the same on all Q100 versions (24V201rpm, 24V328rpm, 36V201rpm, 36V328rpm) and that it instead is 4 different winding configuration that result in 4 different Q100 versions ? Thanks.
-------------------
Ok, I have 2) 36V, Q100 CST's on my bench, one a 201 and the other a 328 and I just counted the teeth on the nylon cogwheels.
The 201 is; 39T-big gear, 23T-sm. gear for 1.6X1.
The 328 is; 39T-big gear, 28T-sm. gear for 1.4X1.

I can't dis-assemble further to count teeth on drive axle(@ Vacation home, no shop vise), but I think they are the same, 15T.
The Sun gear(clutch hub)appear to be the same part.
So the mechanical leverage difference is small, and the bulk of their speed differences must primarily come from different winds.
Later on, when I'm rested, I will try and do the math and determin the percentages difference of the winds and what would happen swapping the two cog wheel sets into the two different winds.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

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Re: Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by d8veh » Jun 18 2015 4:49am

That's interesting. When I checked the difference between a Q100C and a standard Q100, I had 75/24 on the output for the Q100C and 78/33 for the Q100.

IIRC the Q100 was 24v 201 rpm and the Q100C 37v 201 rpm.

I wonder if it's possible to swap gears to get the ideal speed. That's four different ratios so far, regardless of winding speed and voltage.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=61966

You need to count the teeth on your ring gears. They can't be the same otherwise one wouldn't engage with the small gears.

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Re: Cute Q100, 24 V, 328 rpm on 36 V ?

Post by motomech » Jun 18 2015 6:55pm

I started a new post, Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

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