new eZip motor

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Ok I just talked to Hobby town in Albany NY. About 10 miles away. I will be going there Saturday with money. Their tech is there then. As I said several times before. I will be charging inside of my house. I don't have the option of charging outside. All 4 bricks will be charged and run inside of the Lipo bag. The wires will come out the Lipo bag in the front of the metal cash box. come around and out the holes drilled in the back of the metal box. This will minimalize the risk of a fire spreading out of the box to almost 0%. It will be very safe. Also all the wires including the balance wires which I will order extensions for will be securely gorilla taped to the bottom of the box as well as the Lipo bag. This way there will be no movement of the wires going into the bricks eliminating the chances of a short or broken wire from moving around during usage or charging. All 4 power connectors will come out of the holes in the cash box with the balance connectors zip tied to the power wire it belongs to. If I have to pay 40 or 50 bucks it will be worth it as I wont have to take the bricks out of the Lipo bag until it is time to replace them.

I will take pictures of the work when I get it finished. I am absolutely positive that it will be 100% safer and better than the way most ES members use and charge their batteries. I still have a fire extinguisher on hand but probably wont need it even if there is a Lipo fire with that set up. Most ES members either charge outside or in a safe place I am sure so they don't have to go to that extent for safety. I don't have that option and will be charging on my kitchen counter. The only thing that this type of set up will not allow me to do is run the Lipos in really hot weather. (over 80 degrees with the sun shining) . Too much heat for that set up. I will have to run LIFEPO4s or SLAs when it gets really hot outside. But that's ok Its only hot for 3 or 4 months out of the year and not every day. Most of the spring and fall and all winter this set up will work and will be very safe. After I send the pictures of the work done we will discuss the hook ups necessary for charging and usage. No switch required. I got everything back from Dougs house last night. I will be taking everything including the charger to hobby town on Saturday. They can make the extensions I need there. Hopefully they will help me to charge all 4 bricks also.



Thanks Latecurtis out.
 
latecurtis said:
I am absolutely positive that it will be 100% safer and better than the way most ES members use and charge their batteries.

Let's check that absolute positivity.

There's only one reason why you get LiPo fires - uncontrolled decomposition followed by oxidation of the organic components of the battery. This can happen for one of two reasons:

1. Physical damage.
2. Chemical reactions outside design specifications.

Let's look at the two:

1. Physical damage. Pretty obvious. If you have an external intrusion into the pack - especially one which conducts electricity, chances are that the electrical conduction will cause a spark that can ignite the flammable/combustible chemicals inside the pack.

Like everyone else on this forum, you're protecting the pack from physical damage using a hard case. Good work, but this doesn't justify your "100% safer".

2. Chemical reactions outside design specifications. This can occur for a few reasons:

a. Charging to a higher voltage than designed for. This results in excessively rapid decay of the chemicals, one of the outputs of which is hydrogen. Not only will it cause your pack to puff, hydrogen can easily be made to oxidise with atmospheric oxygen rather... vigorously. Most of us would call that a fireball. Again, there are two ways you can over charge - wrong charger, or unbalanced cell, so that some cells are undercharged, and some are overcharged.

Have you done anything to lower this risk over anyone else? It does not appear so, so again, 100% safer seems a specious claim.

b. Impurities in the chemicals during manufacturing. Some packs will simply puff, because something in the battery is causing the reversible chemical reaction to not reverse properly. In fact, the reversible chemical reaction is never perfect - otherwise we'd have an infinite life and efficiency battery. But LiPo should have a 300-1000 cycle life depending on treatment, but impurities will speed this along by orders of magnitudes.

Have you done anything to reduce this risk? CAN you do anything to reduce this risk? Nothing to justify a 100% safer claim.

c. Chemical reactions occurring faster than designed for due to thermal acceleration. Like almost all chemical reactions, the charging and discharging reaction occurs faster - and in this case, less efficiently if the temperature is too high. You have correctly pointed out that having fully insulated batteries during high heat is going to be bad for them - but have you considered that having them insulated in moderate heat while it may guarantee catastrophic failure, is still accelerating aging, and increasing the risk of an out of control chemical reaction?

In this case, I would say you're running a higher risk than the average person here.

Furthermore, using a metal case - This is a bad idea, especially if you're not using good quality grommets to protect wires from the holes you drilled. In the very first build I made, I used a plastic box and just used a file to smooth the edges. A few months later, I had noticed the plastic had cut through the insulation, exposing the copper underneath. If that had been a metal box, I could have started an electrical fire. I put in grommets and no more problems.

You also need to watch the JST connectors, as despite the fact the fact that the end on the battery is female, they have exposed metal pins on the outside - normally they're impossible to short with anything flat, but metal shavings, wire fragments, or any sharp piece of metal can also short it.

You are paranoid about LiPo fires, and yet it seems you don't understand them. You can be absolutely positively sure you're safer, while increasing your own risk. If what you're doing makes you feel safer, go for it, but LiPos are already safe as long as you respect them:

1. Keep them physically safe.
2. Balance them.
3. Watch them for signs of puffing or excessive heat while charging.

And you'll be fine.
 
lipo fires arise from overcharging. as the pack is overcharged above full charge it heats up the anode and the underlying carbon of the anode then reacts with the lithium flouride and organic compounds in the electrolyte to form a new SEI surface on the carbon where the old layer fell off. this is an exothermic reaction which creates more heat to add to the heat generated by the overcharging.

if the battery pack is insulated and does not drain that heat off to the air then the pack can continue to heat up until it reaches a critical temperature that allows the exothermic reaction alone to drive the individual cells into thermal runaway.

so the ignition point will be deep inside the pack inside the insulating bag. one person has observed that is best to reduce the temperature of the pack to stop the thermal runaway and i also feel it helps to drain the voltage off of the cell at the same time to slow the rate of heating from the overcharged condition.

you can also start fires by shorting the output of a charged battery. so far the only fires we have documented here.

you can short a battery by connecting it to another battery which is discharged to low voltage. a discharged battery represents less resistance to current from a fully charged battery than does a steel wire. so shorting a charged battery to an uncharged or lower voltage battery can also cause fires.
 
slacker said:
Good luck but you cannot fix stupid,its been tried before without success. [Citation Needed] Good day. :twisted:

You can actually change your IQ.

The theory of neuroplasticity has shown that our brains have the ability to change themselves, their structures, their neuropathways and even to grow entire new cells.

Why is this important?

Think about it for a minute. Your brain can change. You have the ability to increase your intelligence, learn new skills and become whoever you want to be. Where science used to limit us with notions that once an adult, we were unable to change our intelligence – neuroscience has proven this theory is complete nonsense.

http://simplelifestrategies.com/sls-neuroplasticity-jilltaylor/

Negative attitudes however? I've yet to see a study on whether we can change that.
 
The only reason I claim it to be 95% safer ( maybe not 100%) is only based on a worst case scenario. I am willing to accept the fact that a Lipo fire is much more likely to occur by me than most other ES members that are experienced with Lipo batteries. Due to that reasoning I must physically protect the environment around where I am charging the Lipo batteries. Therefore I am only claiming that if in fact a Lipo fire were to occur that the chances on it spreading and burning down my house would be greatly reduced by charging inside of the Lipo bag and the metal box. Also I took great precautions to protect the wires from sharp metal edges by filing down the holes that were drilled and using gorilla tape to tape around the inside of the holes. The picture at the bottom of page 33 of this post shows this. Also when a Lipo fire occurs as it probably will with me. The opening in the Lipo bag where the wires come out will be in the back of the metal box. The holes are in the front of the box. That greatly reduces the chance of sparks coming out of the holes in the metal box. The fire extinguisher and myself being present and alert during charging is where I get the 100% from. I am sure that most ES members charge in a safer place then a kitchen counter. or a hallway. Outside would be ideal. A garage and inside of a charcoal smoker grille with a lid would also be ideal.
Also I may be wrong but a 6s charger and parallel charging seems much safer than 12s charging as far as the chances of overcharging the batteries as the 6s charger only puts out 22.2 volts not 44.4. There should be a 0% chance of overcharging.
I plan to go to Hobby Town tomorrow and work with someone I on 1 who is experienced with Lipo batteries. I will show him the following diagram to see how he feels about it. I will be taking the 400 watt mega charger that Dan sent with me so the tech can show me how to properly charge. most likely he wont like the switch idea either we shall see. I don't like the fact that whenever I try too hook up Lipos they spit fire out at me and screw up the plugs. I don't want to scorch any more bullet connectors by simply trying to hook them up.

Sincerelly Latecurtis.
 
6s%20charging.jpg
 
6s%20charging.jpg
 
If I were as stupid as everyone thinks then I would not even have been able to design this. Also Sunder is correct I can learn. The librarian taught me how to insert the image as I know nobody on this forum actually opens my attachments. I will be looking for this type of switch. If you want to talk about stupid Then talk to the guy at Grimmers electronics. He has no idea how to hook it up. He cant even comprehend what it is. This switch actually seems kind of simple to me. Why is that. I am told that it is a block diagram. They cant take a simple block diagram and find a simple switch and hook it up yet they have been in business for 15 or 20 years. I cant imagine how. Latecurtis out.
 
latecurtis said:
Also I may be wrong but a 6s charger and parallel charging seems much safer than 12s charging as far as the chances of overcharging the batteries as the 6s charger only puts out 22.2 volts not 44.4. There should be a 0% chance of overcharging.
I plan to go to Hobby Town tomorrow and work with someone I on 1 who is experienced with Lipo batteries. I will show him the following diagram to see how he feels about it. I will be taking the 400 watt mega charger that Dan sent with me so the tech can show me how to properly charge. most likely he wont like the switch idea either we shall see. I don't like the fact that whenever I try too hook up Lipos they spit fire out at me and screw up the plugs. I don't want to scorch any more bullet connectors by simply trying to hook them up.

Sincerelly Latecurtis.
Chance of fire is not about 6s or 12s it is about proper use or monitor of balance plugs - cell voltages.

Add basic on\off switch to prevent spitting fire!

Separate subject:
I posted link for 60A 22.2V to 44.4V switch and instructions ... ? ... few hundred posts ago ... only about $12!
 
Ok DrkAngel I know what you are referring to I just want to make 100% sure it will do exactly what the diagram I just posted will do. I am still waiting for those parallel plugs and the series plug to come in. I should be able to use those plugs to hook up exactly according to the diagram. I can order the switch tomorrow instead of going to Hobby town. Please verify that it will work and I will order the switch. Monday as the bank is closed tomorrow for deposits. Mabry I can get 2 day shipping on the switch. Please verify that I did not make a mistake on the diagram and that it is 100% correct. Thanks Latecurtis.
 
Your "Diagram" kinda shows what you kinda want to do without showing how ...

Switch will switch from 12s2p to 6s4p (without balance connector use - must be manually switched!)

If my diagram does not make sense to you, do not attempt to use! ... refer to more electrically savvy person?

Don't forget to remove the designated buss bar!!!
 
Don't you have 2 6s balance chargers?
After confirming 2 chargers being electrically isolated from each other ...
it should be safe to charge all at once requiring no switching or reconnection - could leave chargers and controller continually attached.
 
Here we go again with the negative comments. I have been refeered to as stupid once again on this forum. I walk three miles a day on average to the gym , grocery store and back home. I do it for my heart and I am trying to lose weight. I think a lot when I walk and am trying to understand how someone can confuse below average intellegence with being uncomfortable handeling Lipo batteries.

After dinner I begin searching thru some of my old college papers looking for some of my grades, I did material science .algebra 2 and visual basic programming. I Forgot a lot.

Also I have studied astronomey and the universe since I was a child. The speed of light is 186.000 . 300 miles a second. The sun is aproximatly 11 million miles away. The nearest star about 4 light years. Before a black hole is formed the red giant star goes supernova. Then it forms a neutron star. about 10 miles in diameter and a teaspoon weighs hundreds of tons. Then it implodes and forms a black hole. once matter goes past the event horizen there is no return.

I watch Nova and read scientific America as well as other science and physics stuff. I am familiar with string theories, The Multiverse theory and the superposistion theory. I even have my own theory that black holes are related to the expansion of the universe thru the production of dark energy. I lack the math skills to prove it. I have antisocial behavior and a list of mental health issues. Stupid is not one of them.

There are a lot of different smarts. I may not be smart on all things. I know a little about muscle cars I can converse on many technical subjects. I built a couple of PCs. Then there is street smarts. I know a thing or two about that also. Ive lived in many cities, and different states..

On the street there is a theory . It states that if you call or refer to someone as stupid you may want to check and see if your dental insurence is current and paid up to date because you may need it. I believe this forum deserves some common curtisy. You would not go around on the street calling people stupid and certainly would not do it in a prison or a gym so you should not do it sitting home in front of a PC. Its easy to pop junk about somebody when there not there. Its a whole different story to say it to their face. Peace out bro.

Im not refeering to DrkAngel , Sunder or Dan. You guys are cool. And Sunder stuck up for me.
yesterday. Thanks for that.

The parallel plugs and series plugs did not come in the mail yet. I also need to order the balance plug extentions and the switch on monday when the bank is open. I am hoping the guy at Hobby town can hook the switch up for me. I install motors on e bikes. I can hook up SLAs and LIFEPO4s when I get them. I can also adjust my own brakes. Im just not into Lipos but want to run them because they are light and affordable.


Your "Diagram" kinda shows what you kinda want to do without showing how ...

Actually DrkAngel I was thinking that that switch diagram could be simplified. I don't need 4 - 22.2V going into the switch. Only 2 - 22.2 volt connections going into it.

The parallel connection on the top right of the switch is accomplished after the switch. The series connection on the bottom right of the switch is also accomplished after the switch.
All the switch needs to do is throw two separate 22.2V inputs to the other side of the switch in two separate connections for the up position of the switch (22.2V) and two other separate connections for the bottom position of the switch. (44.4V) I made the switch more complicated than it needs to be. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you (DrkAngel) and most of the people here on ES are much smarter than that old guy at Grimmers electronics. He looked at my diagram like it had alien features. With your help we will make this work. I have faith in you guys. None of my plugs came in.
Also I have to order the balance extenders and possibly a third Y balance connector. I already have two Dan sent me. Plus a switch (maby a simpler switch now. Monday is a holiday. Wedensday will be the day I order everything I need.
Thanks Latecurtis out.
 
Lipo switch revised.jpg
 
This is really SIMPLE. The switch on page 33 looks more complicated. Also if I get a third Y balance connector can I balance all 4 bricks thru the single port on the 6s charger. If not its no big deal as long as there is a way to balance all 4 bricks. I just need to know so I can order a third Y balance connector if I need to. I wont be able to order anything until Wednesday because of the holiday. If there is a simpler switch than on page 33 I will order it , or that one. plus the balance plug extenders. Everything should be ordered Wednesday and all up and running by the end of this month. Please let me know about the correct switch and if I need the third Y balance connector by Wednesday.

Thanks Latecurtis out.
 
Well ...
When you make the seemingly ridiculous assertions that you have some training as an electrical technician and sport a 160 IQ ...
but then display a pitiful lack of understanding and fear of the most basic electrical functions or circuits ...

I would think you have primed yourself to be the recipient for well deserved disparagement and ridicule!


IQ BG.jpg
IQ Cop.jpg
IQ BF.jpg
IQ AE.jpg
IQ LC.jpg

Better face it boy ... you ain't no friggin' Einstein!
 
latecurtis said:
This is really SIMPLE. The switch on page 33 looks more complicated.

LC Lipo switch.jpg

Wow!
That is simple ... an empty box with wires sticking out!
Good thing you labeled it "Lipo switch" ...
I can't imagine anyone recognizing that it was somehow , magically(?), capable of redirecting electricity along invisible pathways.

You need to take that mysterious box and:
assign multi position, (on\off\on), switches to each wire requiring redirection;
determine switch position orders and protocols;
then, test with fuse attached (recommend preliminary testing be done "in series" with a limited induction device - light bulb?)
confirm with multimeter;
compare to "too complex" $12 switch on page 30.
 
Simpler solution! ... ?
12s2p >>> 6s4p switch with full redirect for 12s controller and 6s charger

690V 50A 12 Terminals 3 Positions Rotary Cam Changeover Switch $25.24 - delivered

 
All of this reminds me about the Fisher Space Pen, which could be used in space, underwater, upside down - in the most hostile of environments. It was indeed a feat of engineering built by some very smart engineers.

However, what ended up being used? A pencil.

Simpler, easier, cheaper things can trump genius.

If you want to build that switch, I can support you all the way. However, i gurantee you it will be more expensive, more dangerous and more prone to failure than simply making two harnesses and permanently attaching them to either the charge device or the load device.
 
latecurtis said:
If I were as stupid as everyone thinks then I would not even have been able to design this. Also Sunder is correct I can learn. ... I will be looking for this type of switch. If you want to talk about stupid Then talk to the guy at Grimmers electronics. He has no idea how to hook it up. He cant even comprehend what it is. This switch actually seems kind of simple to me. Why is that. I am told that it is a block diagram. They cant take a simple block diagram and find a simple switch and hook it up yet they have been in business for 15 or 20 years. I cant imagine how. Latecurtis out.

DrkAngel said:
Your "Diagram" kinda shows what you kinda want to do without showing how ...

latecurtis said:
Actually DrkAngel I was thinking that that switch diagram could be simplified. I don't need 4 - 22.2V going into the switch. Only 2 - 22.2 volt connections going into it.

The parallel connection on the top right of the switch is accomplished after the switch. The series connection on the bottom right of the switch is also accomplished after the switch.
All the switch needs to do is throw two separate 22.2V inputs to the other side of the switch in two separate connections for the up position of the switch (22.2V) and two other separate connections for the bottom position of the switch. (44.4V) I made the switch more complicated than it needs to be. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you (DrkAngel) and most of the people here on ES are much smarter than that old guy at Grimmers electronics. He looked at my diagram like it had alien features. With your help we will make this work. I have faith in you guys. None of my plugs came in.
Also I have to order the balance extenders and possibly a third Y balance connector. I already have two Dan sent me. Plus a switch (maby a simpler switch now. Monday is a holiday. Wedensday will be the day I order everything I need.
Thanks Latecurtis out.
Yeah, your "switch diagrams" are needlessly complex and woefully incomplete.
 
I just ordered the balance extensions. The series connector came in the mail yesterday. Still waiting on the parallel cable's.
Also I went to take off last night and gave it a little too much throttle. The cheap pop metal aluminum forks broke upon takeoff.
Snapped on both sides. Totally broke. At least it happened in front of my house and not miles away going 20 mph. It could have been much worse.

I will need real steel forks. Not cheap pop metal. No Lawyers lip. I spent about 2 hours filing down washers to install that front kit with the stupid lawyers lip. I am not doing that again. At least it lasted for awhile. I will tell Doug what happened later today. I have to go downtown and see that guy karl. The legal guy that is helping me with my disability case. The same guy that took the picture two weeks ago when the kit was installed and up and running.

At least I still have the currie. All I have to do is transfer the SLAs back to the currie for now if I need an e bike. I am still walking for my heart. I am trying to lose weight so my blood pressure will go down. 3 miles a day plus the gym 3 or 4 days a week. Thanks DrkAngel for the switch. I will have to wait until the first to order it. I may not need it if you can tell me if a resister and a fuse can be used to hook up the series connection or bridge between two 22.2 volt batteries to eliminate the voltage surge that happened at doug's house a few weeks ago that expanded the plug on the one Lipo brick.

I cant afford any more setbacks. No more burnt plugs. The wire with the resister and fuse would be hooked up before hooking up the series cable I got in the mail. It is just an idea I have that would eliminate the surge of electrons and fried plugs on the Lipos. Also for parallel charging will I have to worry about a surge of electricity when hooking up three parallel cables for charging all 4 batteries. I still have to take the one Lipo brick to an electronics store to get a new plug put on it.

If there is another way of charging 4 bricks and running 4 bricks without the possibility of burnt plugs I am all for it. A cheap pair of rubber gloves is cheaper than a switch. But if you think a switch would be easier and work better I can wait until next month and order the switch. The guy at Hobby town can hook it up for me. There is no big rush at this point. I have to find a pair of steel forks with no lawyers lip that are wide enough for the kit anyway. Its a project. I refuse to give up on it. I cant move on to another build until this build is finished right. Thanks Latecurtis out.
 
Detail picture of fork break locations?
 
No camera. The lawyers lip on either side broken. I engaged the throttle too much too quickly and the cheap pop metal aluminum just snapped.
I should have waited and got steel forks with no lawyers lip. I spent two hours to make the washers fit on that application. Home depot is 5 miles from my house and I don't have a car and the beat SLAs would not take the currie there and as usual I was working on the thing after midnight so there was not any place to get washers anyway so it is possible the washers were not a perfect fit. The washers could have been 1/64 inch less thick then they should have been. I was a carpenters helper and built many things out of wood. It was really close but not good enough to hold up for any length of time. It worked for awhile. Maybe 10 miles or so that I rode it.
Like I said I'm glad it happened in front of my house instead of a couple miles away at 10 or 15 mph. I am not surprised. I took material science technology. I know about aluminum alloy. Also I know that there is no give to it. It is very strong but brittle. it has very little give. It will not bend like steel. I'm not familiar with Chromalloy. Not sure about the spelling that's what spell check gave me. I never heard of that until I met Doug. He says the trek is made of that. Stronger than steel. My question is which is better. I know steel bends and does not break easily. Probably cheaper to get too. Also if the forks are not quite wide enough I could spread them apart a little without compromising their integrity. Yes or no.
I saw my friend Mike and he is looking for me. I was not even going to post the broken forks but I try to be honest. It takes a man to admit I screwed up. I took an online IQ test and only scored an 88. It would have been a little higher but I forgot my basic algebra and missed a simple question. I know once I brush up on my math a little I can get close to 100. Also I am trying to find out the truth. The original test was a state test done back in 1976 I believe. I was 11 years old and in boy scouts. I remember the bicentennial. It will be difficult to obtain those records. I'm only going by what my mother said. Its so long ago she could have mixed it up and was 116 instead of 160. That's what I think. I don't think there were even computers way back then. I know there were computers in the 1980s as one of my first jobs was Coleco and I worked on the assembly line for the Adam computer and the Cabbage patch dolls that were popular back then. Anyway I try not to lie about things. Lying is not a good quality.

I will be looking for forks and hope the 3 parallel cables will come in soon. The switch I will order next month. Thanks Latecurtis.
 
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