Crystalyte 404 hub motor

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stevebills   100 W

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Crystalyte 404 hub motor

Post by stevebills » Feb 07 2011 5:47pm

I have obtained a Crystalyte 404 hub motor on a 26" front wheel are they any good?
I want to get speeds of 25+ mph on my hardtail bike with a range of 15 miles
Can I use 72 volts?
I have a 48 volts 15 amp Shenzhen controller that needs testing still.
Whats the best controller and battery to use?
Last edited by stevebills on Feb 07 2011 6:16pm, edited 1 time in total.
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icecube57   1 GW

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Re: Crystalyte 404 hub motor

Post by icecube57 » Feb 07 2011 6:14pm

You have got one of the worst combination possible for the 404 motor. Thats a really low turn motor that should have been in a 20inch or 16 inch wheel. That will suck alot of amps.

A 406 would have been more appropriate if you wanted to go fast.

A 408 is what is normally used in a 26 inch wheel in general.

48v 15A controller should work fine. It will barely get you 25mph.
48v 35A will get you about 38mph.

The motor will accept up to 60A6 before there is no performance gain at 48v.

At 48v 60A you could hit 42mph.

Your performance will very good but the controller will be dumping alot of heat into the windings. The motor will get very hot. The controller will be quite hot also.

The simulator data suggest you need a 12fet to properly feed this motor. I would suggest a 48v 30-40a controller.

For reliability I would get a 20AH 48v ping.

If you a smart and on a budget 44v 20Ah lipo pack should get your 15 miles.

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Drunkskunk   100 GW

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Re: Crystalyte 404 hub motor

Post by Drunkskunk » Feb 07 2011 6:35pm

A 404 is a 26" wheel is.. funny.

404 error. Speed not found.
The speed you requested was not found.
If you feel you have reached this answer in error please
enter a new motor and try again.



Even with a 40 amp controller, you will run out of enough torque to make headway someplace around 25mph, at which point you are far down in the efficancy range, and are just sucking up amps and making heat. Its just too tall of a winding.

Thats great if you have a full body farring, a huge battery, and needed a heater for winter riding, but it sucks for anything else.

You could relace that in a 16 inch wheel. A 408 is a better choice for a 26" wheel.
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chvidgov.bc.ca   10 kW

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Re: Crystalyte 404 hub motor

Post by chvidgov.bc.ca » Feb 07 2011 11:31pm

I've got a 404 in a 16" and it is still fairly fast. It does have a bit more torque at this wheel size, than my 406 at 26" I think. The 405 in 20" is also decent.

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Lagoethe   10 W

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Re: Crystalyte 404 hub motor

Post by Lagoethe » Mar 26 2011 10:13am

Hello,

I tried a 404 motor today with a 48V 20A controller and a ping 48V 20A and a 16'' wheel. The result isn't what I was expecting. It has a very low torque, and without pedaling I can't climb most street. If you have a explanation I would happily take it. Would a more powerful controler (48V30A) change anything?

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Re: Crystalyte 404 hub motor

Post by JackFlorey » Nov 22 2020 4:19pm

stevebills wrote:
Feb 07 2011 5:47pm
I have obtained a Crystalyte 404 hub motor on a 26" front wheel are they any good?
Reviving this thread from nine years ago:

Anyone have any data for this motor? Motor constant? Rough power handling? Statorade compatible? (I assume it would need more sealing)

I've got one in a 16" hub and am considering it for a pusher trailer. Would need ~1000w.

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Re: Crystalyte 404 hub motor

Post by markz » Nov 22 2020 9:32pm

The Crystalytes 40x are in the motor simulater at https://ebikes.ca

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

Click on motor drag down window and go to the bottom for 'Show All'
404 is near the start about 2 slider lengths (right up/down arrows) down
Click on 404 and click on 'Show Advanced'
Says 404 is 15.11kv
408 is 7.555
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Crystalyte 404 hub motor

Post by dogman dan » Nov 23 2020 7:36am

Do you want the push trailer to go fast? or push a lot of weight?

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Re: Crystalyte 404 hub motor

Post by JackFlorey » Nov 23 2020 3:51pm

dogman dan wrote:
Nov 23 2020 7:36am
Do you want the push trailer to go fast? or push a lot of weight?
Goal is 25mph cruise, 30mph flat out (for a short time.) Trailer is for touring, so a moderate load (40lbs? something like that.) Going on a Coho trailer, which looks promising from a strength perspective.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Crystalyte 404 hub motor

Post by Chalo » Nov 23 2020 4:42pm

JackFlorey wrote:
Nov 23 2020 3:51pm
dogman dan wrote:
Nov 23 2020 7:36am
Do you want the push trailer to go fast? or push a lot of weight?
Goal is 25mph cruise, 30mph flat out (for a short time.) Trailer is for touring, so a moderate load (40lbs? something like that.) Going on a Coho trailer, which looks promising from a strength perspective.
That's too fast for a pusher trailer in my experience of them. You're likely to have oscillation problems at much lower speeds. One-wheel trailers tend to impose a speed limit by wagging, even when they aren't pushing. My own one-wheel pusher shimmied much worse and much sooner under power than when coasting, and worse with a load on board. It was good for maybe 18 mph completely unloaded (no baskets or anything) and about half that speed with pannier baskets full of groceries.

Also, if you have enough power/torque to reach 30 mph, the thing will fishtail when turning or accelerating from a stop. If it comes around hard enough, it can smack your bike.

Other observations in an old thread:
viewtopic.php?t=62302#p931367
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Crystalyte 404 hub motor

Post by dogman dan » Nov 24 2020 7:24am

Yeah, exactly what I was fishing for. Go fast not the best idea for push trailers, and then if to go slow, you would want to pick a slower, or rather just more normal 408 wind vs a fast motor.

With less load, a 404 would be a good hill climber in 16" wheel, able to take about 1500-2000w for a decent enough time period. 72v 25 amps kind of thing. But total weight should stay more like 300 pounds max for any of the 500w rated motors.

Could still work ok though, if the push trailer is the second motor. Then its half the load, and two motors will let you cruise up the hill at 15-20 mph, and the push is just helping the bike motor. So you have the pusher just taking you along at 15 mph or so on the flats, but a geared motor on the bike coasts at that time. When the load gets big, you turn on that second motor. But as Chalo said, you might find it unstable at even lower speed, fully loaded.

But for sure, wrong motor IMO, for the kind of 400 pound load typical of a rider, big battery, and a big load on the trailer.

Complicated,, What really works best is usually just a big enough motor to go fast up that hill easy, without waste heat, even when heavily loaded. I did my touring on a 5304 crystalyte rear motor on 48v 40 amps. 2000w up the hills kept me going 15 mph up the hills. To extend range, 15 mph on the flat too, just ticking along on 300w.

That bike would do 32 mph though, when I had the range to go fast. And it pulled my bob trailer full of groceries lovely, at 20 mph or so.
Last edited by dogman dan on Nov 24 2020 7:26am, edited 2 times in total.

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