Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

[spinningmagnets]

It's my understanding that aluminum-air batteries are long on range, but are short on venture capital.

Scientists are looking for ways to increase the investor density.

[Chalo]

Aluminum-air batteries have been promising tech since the '80s, but they're non-rechargeable. The idea is they're "reloadable" with fresh aluminum plates.

I doubt that anyone would want to advance that kind of technology for EVs today. I hope that's not what this new battery development is getting at.

[Hillhater]

There's often a catch with newly announced technologies, like a low energy density or other parameters, but here they claim a power of 110kW/kg and energy density of 630Wh/kg !.....

Errr ? Doesnt that imply you would need 10kg of cells to provide 1 kW of power ?

[JohnAnanda]

No, 110 kilowatts of power per kg.

The interest of this study is that they claim to have solved the problem of lithium dendrite growth.

[Hillhater]

Ahh ! , yes sorry i missed the “k” in there
Now , if they can make that commercial, and affordable, it could be a winner

[TheBeastie]

What I don't get about all these battery claims is in this day and age they should be able to provide a cell engineering sample that is still in their own lab but allow one of the 100s of tech YouTubers out there like Adam Savage etc to go into the lab with their own everyday watt-hour meter and just test the cell.

Any of these tech Youtubers would jump at the chance to be even let into the cell makers lab to test just an engineering sample for an hour and make a video showing it do 100Wh from something the size of a matchbox etc.

But this never happens when it comes to battery technology..

Intel sends out so many engineering samples of their CPUs to motherboard makers/testers that you see a lot of really old CPUs on ebay/aliexpress listed as "engineering sample fully unlocked" etc.

Again, the cell makers don't have to send them out, just invite them into their own labs. Like how Linus Tech Tips was invited to NVidia labs to see how they test certify displays
https://youtu.be/Um0PFoB-Ls4?t=385

Even if the engineering battery cell sample cost $50million to make I think it would give more hope that some actually new could exist, because this thread which is well over 10 years old now shows NOTHING has changed.

I kind of hate YouTube channels like this where they just constantly spew these x10 battery improvement claims
https://youtu.be/qeFxqg3B4RA?t=727 , if we had one single YouTuber actually test an engineering sample it would lift the bar of what people should waste their time watching and hoping for, as in stuff they can actually see with real-world results (even if its $50million for a tiny cell) instead of and just replace horse-shit claims videos like we have seen over the last 13 years.

[nicobie]

Youtube horse-shit claims videos like we have seen over the last 13 years.

I'm afraid that is the nature of the beast. Just look at what youtube has to offer about politics.

[neptronix]

Scientists are looking for ways to increase the investor density.

Lol it's very true of the battery field.. the R&D dollar burn rate exceeds that of what we see in even hydrogen power.

Any of these tech Youtubers would jump at the chance to be even let into the cell makers lab to test just an engineering sample for an hour and make a video showing it do 100Wh from something the size of a matchbox etc.

But this never happens when it comes to battery technology..

Yup.. it's sad isn't it?
It's because they don't think of batteries as a consumer product.. so marketing to hobbyists like you and i isn't a thing.

..perhaps when we see safer cells like solid states and such, this will change.. no worries on a manufacturer's end of sending a battery to some yahoo on youtube nad hearing about his house being burned down from abusing the cells.

[neptronix]

https://graphenemg.com/gmg-graphene-alu ... ance-data/

Look at this.. an aluminum battery with 160whr/kg.. 3 times the cycle life of a lithium.. many times the power density.. improved safety.. and easier to recycle, they say... and they actually have test cells to prove it.

Their big hurdle is getting the cells to operate above 1.7v nominal... once that bridge is crossed, modern day lithium actually has some competition.

I'd be overjoyed to see this 6 year stagnancy in battery technology end. haven't had a big leap for a while.

[Hillhater]

What I don't get about all these battery claims is in this day and age they should be able to provide a cell engineering sample that is still in their own lab but allow one of the 100s of tech YouTubers out there like Adam Savage etc to go into the lab with their own everyday watt-hour meter and just test the cell

Why would they bother with amature tech nerds, or even professional specialist consultants ?
Presumably they have their own cell development specialist, and if the really think they have a product with significant advantages, they will not be shy of pushing it onto those people who can give them some real returns....
Big commercial interests like the EV makers, the industrial and domestic back up battery suppliers, companies with a reputation for snapping up new battery developments ( Like Tesla) etc etc.
There is no reason for them to waste time with us DIY small fry. !

[Ianhill]

Byd blade cell
3000 cycles lifepo4
Elons got his hands full his cars struggle against luxury competitors and his hunt for a cheap csr moment is slipping not only on delivering on cost but delivering a product thst withstands competition.

Im not been funny but with the specs on the byd range if they launched in uk today they would be leading the full ev market in 2 years.

What we have had is barely a taste of reality as mainstream hype chains end up dead ends most of the time where as the blade cell is functioning in the market of china today.

[neptronix]

Some news from GCC..

Republic of Congo bans export of cobalt and copper concentrates.. potentially a very bad thing for EVs.
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/0 ... 0-drc.html

...yeah, sorry to not bring anything positive along, lol.

[neptronix]

Contrasting that..

Scientists develop ‘cheap and easy’ method to extract lithium from seawater

https://www.mining.com/scientists-devel ... -seawater/

According to the researchers, the cell will probably need $5 of electricity to extract 1 kilogram of lithium from seawater. This means that the value of hydrogen and chlorine produced by the cell would end up offsetting the cost of power, and residual seawater could also be used in desalination plants to provide freshwater.

The device in question is much like a battery itself..

If this works well, we're potentially looking at a noticeable drop in the price of lithium batteries.

[e-beach]

.....If this works well, we're potentially looking at a noticeable drop in the price of lithium batteries.

If they are able to develop membranes for specific compounds, it makes now wonder if they can develop one that can separate plastics from water....

To address this issue, the team led by Zhiping Lai tried a method that had never been used before to extract lithium ions. They employed an electrochemical cell containing a ceramic membrane made from lithium lanthanum titanium oxide (LLTO).

The ceramic membrane’s crystal structure contains holes just wide enough to let lithium ions pass through while blocking larger metal ions

In a paper published in the journal Energy & Environmental Science, the researchers explain that the membrane’s crystal structure contains holes just wide enough to let lithium ions pass through while blocking larger metal ions.

[neptronix]

Would be nice if we had a technology like that to clean the ocean up for sure!

Anyway i read a good one today.. nanograf has 3.8AH 18650's!
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/0 ... ograf.html

Specifications are 'available upon request':
https://www.nanograf.com/18650-press-release

I sent a request out of curiosity.

..only been looking for a higher energy density battery for 6 years..

[Hillhater]

3.8ah from an 18650 .. Well i guess any increase is better than none,....
.... but it has been 10 years since we got the 3.4 ah version and over 5 yrs since the 3.5 ah became commercial.
I dont plan to hold my breath waiting fo the 5 ah 18650 !

[speedmd]

"Rust" battery for grid storage. Interesting, low cost potential solution. https://formenergy.com/technology/battery-technology/

[Chalo]

"Rust" battery for grid storage. Interesting, low cost potential solution. https://formenergy.com/technology/battery-technology/

At less than 65% charge efficiency, they would have to be very cheap, and so would the electricity used to charge them. Maybe a useful complement to wind power?

Their poor charging efficiency is due in part to producing some hydrogen in the process. If that byproduct could be cheaply captured and stored, it might help out the economics a bit.

[Hillhater]

Together with a 1-3MWh per ACRE land requirement, a storage facility realisticly sized for back up.... (100++ GWh).. might just be unattractive !
PS... storing Hydrogen is never “cheap” !

[neptronix]

I can see where a huge, cheap, shitty battery could be useful. IE if you have a surplus of solar or wind energy, capturing 65% of it is better than 0.

3.8ah from an 18650 .. Well i guess any increase is better than none,....

I know, it's been sad how we've seen very little tangible improvements since 2014. I still think the picture will change in 2 years when some of the experimental stuff comes to light.

[speedmd]

I am not finding claimed efficiency nor any hydrogen production. Article claiming under $20 / KWh
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -lot-hype/

100hour run time?
https://singularityhub.com/2021/08/02/f ... 100-hours/

[keenja]

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[Hillhater]

I can see where a huge, cheap, shitty battery could be useful. IE if you have a surplus of solar or wind energy, capturing 65% of it is better than 0.

I know storage will be essential for the effective use of wind and solar , but can you name any state , regeon, or country that has a SURPLUS of solar or wind energy ?

[Chalo]

I am not finding claimed efficiency nor any hydrogen production.

https://www.alexhsain.org/blog/ironair

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20120187918A1/en

Efficiency. An iron-air battery has an open circuit cell voltage of about 1.28V and a theoretical energy density of 764 Wh/kg. While the current densities are at least an order of magnitude higher than would be used for discharge of batteries for grid-scale electrical storage, there is a 0.5V difference between the charge and discharge voltages. This difference in charge/discharge voltages arises mainly from the poor performance of the air electrode. This voltage loss contributes significantly to the low round-trip efficiency of 50% of current iron-air batteries, 20% loss of capacity in 14 days, and 10% loss of faradic charge efficiency.

I think the "less than 65%" charge efficiency I found was in an online discussion of iron air batteries, but actually referred to iron-nickel batteries. It looks like iron-air is even worse in that regard.

[stan.distortion]

...
I know storage will be essential for the effective use of wind and solar , but can you name any state , regeon, or country that has a SURPLUS of solar or wind energy ?

Norway? They where paying consumers to use electricity on at least one occasion. Pray you don't see more of it, a surplus from wind farms is the kind of thing that gives power companies cold sweats. Grids where designed to bring power from one generator to lots of places, when they're getting power from lots of places and nowhere to send it to... meltdown.