1996 Raleigh M50 Build Thread - Test Commuter and Weekend

[jmac]

The bike I'm starting with is a 1996 Raleigh M50, 22". Was purchased new... 20 years ago. My health has meant I haven't been able to ride it for most of that duration, but I've pulled it out every few years and serviced it, replaced components, etc. I fully ackowledge that I am using this frame for nostalgia purposes rather than any good reason.

Pre-Conversion Setup:
Essentially stock as listed on http://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=1996&Brand=Raleigh&Model=M50&Type=bike unless otherwise indicated.
It's always been used primarily on-road so has had http://www.tiogausa.com/city-slicker.html for tires. I believe, based on wear, that these were the original tires. The bike only had at most a couple hundred miles put on it before I got too sick, and then too injured (yes, I've done both!) to ride.

Post-Conversion Setup:
500w Rear DD Hub Motor @ 36V
Acera SL-M130 Shifters (replacing Acera ST-M290 integrated shift/brake, the right shifter was damaged)
Included Brake Levers
Schwalbe Marathon Plus 26x1.75 Tires
10s1p Lipo
Remainder will be stock

There's definitely a budget aspect here, because while under the supervision of my cardiologist I'm stationary biking about 15 miles a few times a week, I don't know how that is going to translate to actual bike riding. I have a Mark 2 setup priced out and on a wishlist that is about $1500 that should make me very happy if ebiking works for me.

Electronics is a hobby of mine (both low and high voltage, I built my first tesla coil at age 12). I am fully capable of designing and building a motor controller from the ground up, for instance, but I don't intend to go overboard on this setup beyond debugging. I'll just get it out of the way from the start, I'm an international award-winning photographer so most of the photos are going to suck because I can't be bothered to bring work cameras home with me anymore.

My goals for this setup:
1) See if my body holds up to riding.
2) Determine my needs/wants for range and speed.
3) Convince my wife to get one.

Also, I apparently forgot to finish this (I saved it as a draft) so obviously forgot to post it. It's slightly outdated so I'll just follow it up immediately with another post. As soon as I wander out to the garage to take some pictures. Note to anyone else that does it: Load Draft instead of View/Edit actually lets you post the draft, hitting view editing and then save and repeating multiple times is useless. This has been a phpBB issue since 2008 apparently...

 

[jmac]

I will use this post to always have a "What it looks like now" section.

Top Speed: 26.5mph (flat ground, all out pedaling)

 

[jmac]

Okay, so, as noted in my first post I didn't manage to post it while still in the planning phase, so here's where I am.

I ordered a 36v 500W DD kit from ebay seller Allinone168 who are one of the many importers of random Chinese stuff. They list location as Seacacus, NJ but the kit actually shipped out of California so came much more quickly than expected. $176

The kit included a motor with nothing more than HBS-36V500W laser inscribed on it (which appears to be a designation for an older Golden Motor hub). It has bolts for disc brakes which the wiki specifically stated that designation didn't have, if I read it right. I was all set to open it up and measure it but got stumped as to how it opens and didn't want to force things. It has a panel on each side with hex bolts, I removed them all (1 was missing a washer). One panel became loose, the other did not. I gave up and put it all back together.

Motor was laced into a 26" wheel with a chinese hybrid tire of sorts. Tension on all of the absurdly thick (12G) spokes was equal and the wheel was true. It's a double-walled rim and had no rim tape.

The controller appears to be an infineon or very similar but the board design doesn't match anything I was able to find here. It definitely has more functionality than they brought out with the existing wiring, but I wasn't able to decipher much of the silkscreen notes on it. I also didn't take a photo, but it's on my to do list to probe quite a lot of points on it and see what it has for options. It is a 12 fet controller with cjp75n80 fets, he 75n80 looks like a slight upgrade to the 75n75 that seems to be listed here quite a lot. Main capacitors are 63V rated.

For batteries I ordered 2x 5s 5000mAh Zippy 20C batteries from HobbyKing. It's a test setup, these were cheap. I also have a significant background in charging lithium chemistry batteries, including building chargers, writing their firmware, etc. so I'm not hugely concerned with having li-poly batteries around the house. My commute is also 1.1 mile with 110ft elevation change, so range isn't much of an issue. $87

Where it stands right now:
I've loosely installed and routed the wiring, I'm not happy with the battery connection so will be replacing that. I'm also not happy with the controller location there so am looking at options, leaning toward moving it to either a small bag on he handlebars or to a rear rack.

I've replaced all of the mechanical components that I was intending to replace, so I have the new shifters on both sides. I installed the new cabling but the included housing did not fit the bike so am still using the old housing. It appears to be quite a bit more robust, so not sure if I will order new housing or not. The new brakes levers work, but are definitely a downgrade.

I added a cheap black kickstand ($8 on amazon) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=as2&tag=hyakphoto-20&linkId=JWAVNLZNEXU6TIH7

The twist shifter is the bane of my existance, the grip is incredibly ugly and the battery charge indicator/ignition button don't remotely fit with the shifter so I have it turned upwards so that the igition mostly faces the sky but slightly forward. My wife likes the look of the grips so I did install the left one also... very, very tight fit and even with a lot of soapy water I am not sure I got it all the way on, it feels slightly floppy at the end but the measurements compared to the throttle side are correct.

I took it for about a half-mile ride around the sub-division. I like it. A lot.

Still missing:
Speedometer, I picked one with cadence because I need to pay more attention to that with my health. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=as2&tag=hyakphoto-20&linkId=KSXYOEQDSK6VTLDE

Watt Meter, this one was recommended in several places here, and was cheap, I figure it's easier than taping a pair of multimeters onto my handlebars =) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=as2&tag=hyakphoto-20&linkId=SNHYWCGKGYDA5PAT

And, because, pictures... TBD Turn them right side up...:

 

[jmac]

Just got back from my first ride. Was planning on doing about 3.8 miles, up to a nearby park on a bike path and back. Took a multimeter with me and checked voltage at the park (1.9 miles) and was still at 41v so kept going. Ended up doing 8.4 miles at an average of 10.4mph. I know that's slower than most people here want to go but that was pretty much my goal and I'm very happy. Ended at just under 39v, although the ride wasn't good for the multimeter... it's going to need some repair.

Some notes:

The registration on the 7 speed freewheel on the hub motor is... poor with the acera shifters. Knew that going in and had it setup to be best for the fastest gears, and, well, yeah, really only used the top 3.

I kept my speed in check with Polar Beat and my heart rate monitor, I set it essentially to <140bpm and whenever it said to "Slow Down!" I essentially increased throttle. At this pace I used throttle a little over half the time. About 20% of the time there and 80% of the time back (after finding that I wasn't using a lot of power I opened up the throttle a lot more on the way back).

Hub is clearly out of true by the end of the ride, I haven't had a chance to check tension and tighten anything but it definitely has a spot that is a bit flat. I didn't lock brakes up anywhere so I don't think it's a flatspot on the tire. I may consider lacing the hub into a new rim, or maybe the old rim from the bike, but while I am very mechanically capable that's not really in my current skillset and with how life is (Moving!) I don't know if I want to learn it right now.

All in all I was expecting quite a lot less range, I've used numbers usually given here, but I think right now I'm happier at much lower speeds and pedaling more. Very happy.

https://flow.polar.com/training/relive/84358978 (Polar Flow Relive video)

Opened the throttle and pedaled at full at the end for a 24.2mph top speed, probably should have tried it at the beginning with the fresh battery, I will do so in the future.

 

[arkmundi]

Looks like a fine build. Thanks for sharing. My first eBike was on Gary Fisher Gitchee, for the same reason that I'd had it for a long time and liked riding it. These vintage MTBs are really good for eBike conversion, because they were made so good. Steel frames especially. I put a 500 watt motor on it as well. Loved riding it. Until I did a complete new build, a MAC 10T, OSN A123 48V on Trek Shift 3. Now the Gitchee is collecting dust waiting for a new life. Only thing I don't like about the Trek is its aluminium. I've ranted recently on the beauty of TIG-welded Chromoly steel frames as a base for eBikes. And am nostalgic for the golden years of mountain bikes.

 

[jmac]

Yeah, the MAC motor is in the running for the next one for me. Loosely between that and a middrive, tentatively planning on September. My wife and I have one car so I either drive her to work and then have the car or I walk to work, or now commute on the bike (walking is... hard on m legs) so I'd like something with lower range torque rather than a high top speed. I'd actually just read your build thread today, not sure how I had missed that previously.

Frame-wise I'm not sure what I am going to do, a lot of me would like suspension, and the rest of me says this frame is, as you point out, TIG welded chromoly that aside from just a couple of spots is in great shape and only marginally heavier than a similarly sized aluminum frame. 22" is a bit larger than I think I honestly want, post leg injuries, too. My wife definitely wants suspension for hers, so I will definitely be investigating options there. Maybe a suspension fork and seatpost.

As a follow-up to the rim issue, a quick tone check puts about 1/2 of the spokes significantly off on tension, which even for a cheap wheel annoys me in under 10 miles. The spot that feels flatter actually far enough to the side to rub the brakes and appear visibly different to the tire's reflective strip.

It also looks like my father-in-law may want me to convert his bike before I leave... I may need advice on something bullet proof for him, he is... somewhat less mechanically inclined.

Used 1300mAh according to the chargers on the ride today, so my 90Wh estimate was twice what it should have been. The multimeter also didn't die because of the trip, it had a leaking battery and apparently the trip was just the last straw for the battery. Off to true the wheel and listen to an audio book!

 

[jmac]

Yesterday was... interesting. Checking your schedule for the day is important.

We have one car. If I need the car for the day I drive my wife to work, otherwise I walk or bike the one mile to my office. Got a bit of a late start (hadn't charged the batteries the night before) and got in at 11:30 for a Q&A I had scheduled... and noted I had a 1pm appointment on the other side of town. Google Maps suggested 45 minutes by bike and 10 miles. Those following up above know that 1) I have poor health, 2) I have knee injuries, and 3) I have a 5Ah battery. I'm also not set up to ride, without my cardiologist ordered heart monitor, without water bottle, no speedometer, odometer, wattmeter, or multimeter, in the wrong shoes, pants, shirt, and without sunglasses or gloves.

Finished up what I needed to and got out a couple minutes after noon, took a wrong turn adding 2 miles to my trip, had a terrifying experience on a bridge with 30mph winds (I have a serious fear of heights), and got there on time. Then rode to the car, got the bike in the trunk, and picked up my wife.

And I did all if it on 2.2Ah or 5.3wh/mi which had me pretty excited, and that was keeping up with road cycles, luckily with a total elevation gain of <75ft.

I'm sore today, but excited.

Today in to work and back I did 20wh/mi because pedaling hurt.

Also... added the watt meter shunt today, I added some wire from the battery and put XT60 connectors on... the battery wire from the controller is, for whatever reason, 3-wire AC wiring, so white/black/green. I made a bad assumption that they were going black to black and exploded a couple of connectors. Always check continuity, or at least colors.



I've replaced the controller connector with an XT60 also, which is cleaner, smaller, and less brittle. The brittle issue is what's going to get all of the controller connectors replaced, I think.

 

[jmac]

I have numbers!

Just motored my way to the park and then road on human power, but I logged a lot of info on the way. Charger is going now so I'll add Ah that it charges after, too.

So we know that chinese kits can come in all sorts of flavors, and the hand written in sharpie numbers on top might not be accurate.

Total trip: 17.26 miles, 1 hour 45 minute ride time, 11.24mph average (15 under power, about 9 average without). Averaged 73 rpm cadence.

Started at 42v (19v each 5s pack), ended at 38.22v. 2.953Ah, 114.8Wh, 31.3A peak, 1231W peak, 36.0v min (ie 2.25v sag).

Worth noting that the 12-fet controller had 36v-500w hand written on top. 36v*30A is, of course, 1080W. Looking more closely the 5 could easily be a 1, so maybe someone just pulled the wrong controller.

 

[jmac]

So 126 miles now, seems a good time to follow-up.

My health honestly is to the point that I don't need the electric assist. 3 cheers for glucosamine because I was told I needed a knee replacement before I could really do much.

After I move I'm going to pick up a slightly relaxed geometry aluminum road bike to be my daily ride and the ebike will become the hauling frame. We have an apartment that is nicely located, about 1.5 miles from shopping and 1.3 miles from my wife's work. She's riding a ton now, too. We got her a Chinese knock off hybrid from Costco for $199. After stripping it down and rebuilding it (the forks were good, everything behind was.... poor with grease that was more like glue, and quite a lot of rust so I think some parts had been in a warehouse for a long time), replacing the freewheel (yeah, it uses one rather than a cassette) with one that had a 34 tooth climbing gear since she only has one chainring, she has a decent bike... complete with bell and matching flower bag.

So state of the ebike:

I've rerouted wiring a few times and am pretty happy with where things are, I've replaced quite a bit, and want to replace all of the connectors with something more streamlined. Long term goal when there's more money, time, etc (ie after we move).

I can easily ride 20 miles on less than 2ah, and except for being sick the last 2 weeks I have done so on several occasions. When riding with my wife I don't use the motor at all.

I've replaced the freewheel with the 14-28 freewheel from my wife's bike, the 13-28 hyperglide that I ordered rubbed without a spacer and I didn't care enough to fix it to get hyperglide as much as I'd like that. It's really, really, really nice to have all 21 gears working compared to 6 or so that were easy to get to with the included freewheel.

So... today's issues

I broke 2 spokes on today's ride and had a 2 mile walk of shame back home. During that time my wife rode on further, rode back, heckled me, road home and beyond, then back and walked (and heckled) again for a bit before I got home. I haven't taken apart everything to find out if my field report on spokes is accurate, I am pretty sure it was 1 that broke shortly after we left and I broke the second about 4 miles into the trip when I decided to turn around. I rode for a bit (slowly) home after that and may have broken another. The ping sound is, really, pretty distinctive. And the wheel is far, far outside of true.

The plan:

For the weekend I'm going to swap the motor out for my 11-25 cassette and shimano hub. I'm kind of excited to ride without the weight and cogging of the DD hub... My wife and I have a long ride planned for one of our rare Saturdays off (I'm a wedding photographer... Saturdays in the summer don't belong to me). After that I am going to get some smaller gauge spokes an re-lace the entire wheel. I was planning to do that in September... I'm not yet sure if I am going to replace the rim or not at that point. Its a bit heavy, but it doesn't seem to have anything majorly wrong with it.

Long term plan:

I'm definitely going to go with 2 (or more) bikes. My health isn't great, but I can ride without assistance so my primary bike for recreation is going to switch to being a road bike. Maybe I'll end up being a MAMIL, but I'll at least try to make it look good. I still want to replace the DD hub with a lighter, smaller, etc. geared hub and a better battery solution in the long term for hauling groceries and/or for days I don't feel well. I know I don't need as much battery as I once thought I did, or maybe I do. We are a single car family and so far the bike has been my car and been fantastic.