A million + miles in an EV..

[Hillhater]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/heres-a-million-mile-tesla-model-s-owners-advice-for-ev-reliability/

key points..
2014 Tesla “S” in Europe.
Owner driver who says he doesnt go over 100 km/h (60 mph)
currently on its 4th battery pack
Has had 13 (thirteen) drive motor replacements…. ( the last one deliberately not from tesla ?)
+ many other repairs.…
…BUT. The owner is happy with the situation !

 

[jonescg]

The battery pack replacements I can understand - that's a lot of cycles, and the Model S packs were not as well built as the later models. Turns out potting and sealing is super important!

But the drive motor replacements - that's a big L. Sounds like some intrinsic alignment issues on the car.

 

[harrisonpatm]

I was just thinking the same thing, glad someone with more experience than me pointed it out first. Generally I'd expect electric motors to last longer than their ICE counterparts. And I even understand that the article points out that early Model S motors had issues, and their replacements have issues... even with all of that, 13 motor replacements sounds pretty ridiculous

 

[jetpackjbd]

I was just thinking the same thing, glad someone with more experience than me pointed it out first. Generally I'd expect electric motors to last longer than their ICE counterparts. And I even understand that the article points out that early Model S motors had issues, and their replacements have issues... even with all of that, 13 motor replacements sounds pretty ridiculous

I think it’s down to manufacturers marketing EVs as maintenance free. Coolant rarely gets checked, oil is never changed, and parts only get replaced when they stop working and not when typical wear occurs.
I believe Teslas and most EVs don’t have temperature gauges for the driver either, and they only know if something’s overheating by the car turning off.
13 motor replacements is still definitely too high, there’s got to be something else causing the problem that the technicians haven’t checked. I’ve heard of someone having the same problem in an ICE, where they went through 10+ engines before a different mechanic found a fault in the transmission that would destroy the engine prematurely.

 

[fechter]

I wonder what failed in the 13 motors? An induction motor doesn't have very many things that can fail.

 

[dominik h]

I saw him a few times on the Autobahn. He was always driving behind the trucks.
I even overtook him on the scooter

He has also driven 300 000miles in his Tesla roadster, but with two sets batteries.

 

[Hillhater]

I wonder what failed in the 13 motors? An induction motor doesn't have very many things that can fail.

The infomation is not clear, but as i remember, some early Model S drivetrains had big issues with bearing clearances.
i wonder if this guys “motor replacements”. were actually full motor +drivetrain assembly replacements in the same way those early problems were overcome ?.
But again, he did say his last “motor” repair was an independant specialist in Croatia .
Either way, the report suggests there is something wrong in his particular vehicle, …because if it were a common issue, there would be many more online stories and reports.
It also implies there is something seriously wrong with Teslas service , repair, and replacement parts system and component quality….no doubt magnified by the limited availability of suitably trained technicians around the world.
Its reassuring to know there were no fires with his battery issues, but the unreliability factor does knock my belief that Tesla had a good handle on battery technology !
And i am totally amazed that the owner is still satisfied with the car !…
. ( i guess his “unlimited mileage” warranty from Tesla helps there !)

 

[jetpackjbd]

The infomation is not clear, but as i remember, some early Model S drivetrains had big issues with bearing clearances.
i wonder if this guys “motor replacements”. were actually full motor +drivetrain assembly replacements in the same way those early problems were overcome ?.
But again, he did say his last “motor” repair was an independant specialist in Croatia .
Either way, the report suggests there is something wrong in his particular vehicle, …because if it were a common issue, there would be many more online stories and reports.
It also implies there is something seriously wrong with Teslas service , repair, and replacement parts system and component quality….no doubt magnified by the limited availability of suitably trained technicians around the world.
Its reassuring to know there were no fires with his battery issues, but the unreliability factor does knock my belief that Tesla had a good handle on battery technology !
And i am totally amazed that the owner is still satisfied with the car !…
. ( i guess his “unlimited mileage” warranty from Tesla helps there !)

Ohhh, he’s been getting the motors under warranty? I thought Tesla hated doing free work, at least on batteries. I’ve heard stories of battery cells failing well below the expected lifespan and Tesla wanting to charge full price

 

[spinningmagnets]

For the batteries, this is still impressive to me.

Lets imagine he has 100K on his current battery pack, then one million miles means the previous three packs achieved 300K miles each as an average.

Plus, battery wear is easier to track compared to wear on an ICE engine.

 

[Hillhater]

Lets imagine he has 100K on his current battery pack, then one million miles means the previous three packs achieved 300K miles each as an average.

actually its more than that..
he says the current pack has done 100k kms… so the first 3 packs did 1,800,000 kms or 600,000 kms (375k miles) each on average.
however.. assuming he gets 350 + miles on a charge, that means the packs are lasting 1000 charge cycles with his careful 10-80% usage routine ?

 

[Papa]

Owner driver who says he doesnt go over 100 km/h (60 mph)
currently on its 4th battery pack
Has had 13 (thirteen) drive motor replacements…. ( the last one deliberately not from tesla ?)
+ many other repairs.…

Not impressed.

Manfred Dvorak’s 2005 Toyota Prius

Manfred Dvorak is an Austrian taxi driver who’s Prius amassed over 621k miles, all on the original battery while in use. While it is no longer a taxi vehicle, it is still being currently used as a roadside assistance vehicle. Dvorak said that the Prius has never broken down on him, and still maintains its ability to accelerate and handle quickly, regardless of the high mileage.

Victor Sheppard’s 2007 Toyota Tundra

Victor Sheppard owned a 2007 Toyota Tundra, and he racked up over 1 million miles in just 9 years on the original engine and transmission. Quite an impressive feat for such a short amount of time. The original owner used the Tundra to travel across the country more than 100,000 miles per year to transport heavy equipment for his job. Toyota celebrated this by taking in his old Tundra to tear it down and examine it, whilst giving him a brand new Tundra.

aron Morvant’s 2007 Toyota Tundra

That’s right, another 2007 Toyota Tundra makes the list, this one belonging to Louisiana resident Aaron Morvant. He is a “hot shot” driver in the logistics business, meaning he’s on call 24/7 to pick up and deliver various packages to anywhere around the country. This one is a little worse for wear than Victor Sheppard’s Tundra, but it hit the million mile mark with the original engine nonetheless. The original transmission however, only lasted roughly 792,000 miles before having it rebuilt after a slight slip in third gear.

 

[jetpackjbd]

actually its more than that..
he says the current pack has done 100k kms… so the first 3 packs did 1,800,000 kms or 600,000 kms (375k miles) each on average.
however.. assuming he gets 350 + miles on a charge, that means the packs are lasting 1000 charge cycles with his careful 10-80% usage routine ?

Sounds about right surprisingly. I always wondered how EVs manage to last as long as they do when my phone’s battery is junk within 4 years. If you charge it slowly and don’t do full cycles frequently like you would with a phone, it’ll last quite a bit. I discovered this with my eBike, which I originally expected to last maybe 2000 miles? I do about 20 miles per charge (not a full cycle, usually 30-100%) and have about 800 miles on it. That only makes roughly 40 cycles, so I should be able to go 10x-20x that assuming the battery is of decent quality. Applies to a full size EV as well it sounds like

 

[From-A-To-B]

actually its more than that..
he says the current pack has done 100k kms… so the first 3 packs did 1,800,000 kms or 600,000 kms (375k miles) each on average.
however.. assuming he gets 350 + miles on a charge, that means the packs are lasting 1000 charge cycles with his careful 10-80% usage routine ?

Kelly blue book offers that the 2014 Model S got between 210-265 miles per charge, rather than 350+. Hard to say whether his subsequent batteries had more kWh packed inside, but the math on the original range estimates lead us toward 1300+ full battery cycles, or 1700 battery cycles at 80% DoD.

That all sounds pretty good to me. I mean, sure — the 52 Lishen 2170SD cells that comprise my ebike pack claim the ability to make it to 1,000 cycles, but I never expect that’ll actually happen. Thats entirely due to the fact that I just can’t / won’t put that many miles on my ebike… but even if I did ride 15,000 miles per year, I’d never actually expect a battery to make it to 1,000 cycles.

The thirteen motor replacements on the other hand… thats not a great outcome. (Go Toyota, I guess.)

 

[Hillhater]

Kelly blue book offers that the 2014 Model S got between 210-265 miles per charge,

Posssibly , but its not clear what pack size this car has.
A 2014 S could be anything from 60 to 85 “available“ kWh and the NEDC range rating was 312 miles ( EPA seems to quote 265 m for all pack sizes ?)
I assumed he would better that with his easy driving style ( not more than 100 kph /.60 mph )

 

[dominik h]

P85