Best motor for stop and go city riding

[Kemosabe70]

Let’s say I’ve got a Luna Wolf Pack v2 52v 13.5ah pack on a hardtail :lol: and I want to stretch that thing as far as possible around the flat pavement of NYC, without exerting too much effort and no need to exceed 20mph realistically what sort of motor would suit me best?

Things I value most being In descending order:
1. Range
2. Good acceleration from 0 being that there will be so much stop and go
3. Reliability
4. Top speed

 

[markz]

"without exerting too much effort" - Kemosabe70 you are my kinda rider :thumb: The motto should be 'without ANY effort' :wink: :lol:
"and no need to exceed 20mph" - :lol: you will want to go faster, I'd say you'd want to hit 30mph a few times a month, but 25mph would be more often.
"realistically what sort of motor would suit me best? " BBSHD is nice for stop and go traffic, matched to a 52V 40A external controller like a Phaserunner. Would be ideal, but you could get away with saving some money and just buying a regular generic controller.

 

[Kemosabe70]

"without exerting too much effort" - Kemosabe70 you are my kinda rider :thumb: The motto should be 'without ANY effort' :wink: :lol:
"and no need to exceed 20mph" - :lol: you will want to go faster, I'd say you'd want to hit 30mph a few times a month, but 25mph would be more often.
"realistically what sort of motor would suit me best? " BBSHD is nice for stop and go traffic, matched to a 52V 40A external controller like a Phaserunner. Would be ideal, but you could get away with saving some money and just buying a regular generic controller.

A lot of people have been saying mid-drive and bbshd, seems like a solid choice.

Now lemme throw a curveball at ya :lol: :lol:
This hardtail is now a single speed, better yet it has a carbon belt drive

 

[Balmorhea]

"and no need to exceed 20mph" - :lol: you will want to go faster, I'd say you'd want to hit 30mph a few times a month, but 25mph would be more often.

Given that the speed limit on all surface streets in NYC is 25 mph, I see no need to give the bastard swine any extra reasons to ruin your day. Build for 20mph top speed and enjoy better range, or for 25mph top speed and get more jollies, but faster is just inviting needless trouble.

P.S. -

You didn't say what wheel diameter you're working with.

 

[amberwolf]

As noted in your other thread, range is speed and riding style. (unless you use a velomobile or other faired vehicle). It isn't affected that much by which motor you use, unless one is greatly different in efficiency from the others. You can see how this works at the Grin Simulator, previously linked in your other thread.

Some other basics:

Acceleration is torque vs weight; torque is current vs motor winding vs wheelsize vs gearing (if any).

Top speed is power vs aero vs wheelsize vs gearing (if any) vs motor winding vs voltage.

Reliability is simplicity, under your conditions.


A DD hubmotor in the wheel is simpler than any other method (really isnt' any maintenance, as long as the wheel was well-built with the right size spokes (not thick 12g types) for the rim, and you don't have salted roads in winter, etc), but will take more power to do the same torque (acceleration) in the same size wheel, than a geared hubmotor of the same power level, or a middrive of the same power level that's geared thru the drivetrain for the lower ratios needed for accelration.

Geared hubs are similar to DD, except two more layers of stuff between motor and road (the planetary gears, and the clutch).

A middrive will have more maintenance--chains, sprockets, freewheels, etc. More things to go wrong between the motor and the road.

So you end up with compromise. You have to choose which thing(s) are the most important to you, and fulfill them in that order.

The simulator is one good way to "ride" different systems and see which types do what you want better than others. Middrives can be simulated by some of the advanced features, and then you can change gear ratios to check acceleration vs cruising, assuming you're not using a single-gear-ratio bike.



There's a bunch of threads about hub vs middrive, or geared vs direct drive, etc., if you want to read about all the differences and people's opinions.

 

[Balmorhea]

[duplicate post, deleted]

 

[Kemosabe70]

Now lemme throw a curveball at ya :lol: :lol:
This hardtail is now a single speed, better yet it has a carbon belt drive

Don't waste your money, time, maintenance, or expensive belts and sprockets on a mid drive if you only have one gear. Get a front MAC hub motor in whatever winding gives the speed you want. If you have a belt single freewheel with threads, you can put it on a rear MAC motor.

Thanks for the response! So I guess if I went belt drive I would be better off with a geared hub motor than a mid drive being that I wouldn’t be able to get the most out of a mid drive with only one gear.

 

[Balmorhea]

Now lemme throw a curveball at ya :lol: :lol:
This hardtail is now a single speed, better yet it has a carbon belt drive

Don't waste your money, time, maintenance, or expensive belts and sprockets on a mid drive if you only have one gear. Get a front MAC hub motor in whatever winding gives the speed you want. If you have a belt single freewheel with threads, you can put it on a rear MAC motor.

Thanks for the response! So I guess if I went belt drive I would be better off with a geared hub motor than a mid drive being that I wouldn’t be able to get the most out of a mid drive with only one gear.

Precisely. You'll live with all the shortcomings of a mid drive and none of the benefits.

What wheel diameter are you using, and what kind of belt sprocket in the rear?

 

[Kemosabe70]

Now lemme throw a curveball at ya :lol: :lol:
This hardtail is now a single speed, better yet it has a carbon belt drive

Don't waste your money, time, maintenance, or expensive belts and sprockets on a mid drive if you only have one gear. Get a front MAC hub motor in whatever winding gives the speed you want. If you have a belt single freewheel with threads, you can put it on a rear MAC motor.

Thanks for the response! So I guess if I went belt drive I would be better off with a geared hub motor than a mid drive being that I wouldn’t be able to get the most out of a mid drive with only one gear.

Precisely. You'll live with all the shortcomings of a mid drive and none of the benefits.

What wheel diameter are you using, and what kind of belt sprocket in the rear?

I don’t have the donar yet :lol:


Check out my other thread:[https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=106773]

 

[dogman dan]

In any case, whatever bike it ends up being, the geared hub motors tend to get more efficiency in stop and go city riding than the direct drives. The gears make getting going easier on the motor, and less time is spent in the inefficient rpm range. In some cases, I saw 20 percent better range with a geared motor. But that was compared to a particularly poor suited dd motor.

A mid drive still has the most potential efficiency, but at the price of lots of shifting, which gets tedious in city conditions.

So get a geared motor. Which one matters little, but the least pedaling would be done with a more powerful one, like a mac fed 1000 watts minimum.

 

[markz]

only one gear.

Ouch
Single speed Ouch!

I didnt realize you were rocking single speed action. Then yeah a hub motor, MAC geared is a great motor from www.em3ev.com which will help you get up to speed in a more efficient manner. The direct drive hub motor like the Leaf 1500W from www.Leafbike.com with all that stop and go action it wouldn't work as well as a geared MAC hub motor would. A front motor would stick out more then a rear motor would, but your single speed has some draw backs, a narrower rear dropout so no rear hub would fit.

In NYC "ALL" the bicyclists dont stop for no stinking red lights, even when watching Loius Rossman ride to his Apple repair store on his BBSHD in NYC, he always stops but literally everyone else dont stop for no stinking red light even with the fuzz in the middle of the intersection directing traffic.

I say get yourself a normal 1x8 or 3x8 bicycle, so you can use the gears of the bicycle to help out the motor and save battery juice.

 

[Kemosabe70]

only one gear.

Ouch
Single speed Ouch!

I didnt realize you were rocking single speed action. Then yeah a hub motor, MAC geared is a great motor from www.em3ev.com which will help you get up to speed in a more efficient manner. The direct drive hub motor like the Leaf 1500W from www.Leafbike.com with all that stop and go action it wouldn't work as well as a geared MAC hub motor would. A front motor would stick out more then a rear motor would, but your single speed has some draw backs, a narrower rear dropout so no rear hub would fit.

In NYC "ALL" the bicyclists dont stop for no stinking red lights, even when watching Loius Rossman ride to his Apple repair store on his BBSHD in NYC, he always stops but literally everyone else dont stop for no stinking red light even with the fuzz in the middle of the intersection directing traffic.

I say get yourself a normal 1x8 or 3x8 bicycle, so you can use the gears of the bicycle to help out the motor and save battery juice.

Besides not wanting to die, I’m pretty sure DIY ebikes aren’t technically legal so I always stop :lol:

I’ll need to figure it out, it’s tough choosing between a the different styles. I’m weighing out a hybrid like a trek FX or even DualSport with front suspension, a hardtail XC type bike, another fixie like a wabi classic or special (these are SUPER light and made with Reynolds 720 steel I wonder if that would hold up?) or a fat bike.

I want to be able to comfortably curb-hop it without worrying about anything bending breaking or coming loose, be able to take a pot hole or two and I think I could achieve that with any of these bikes.

I’ll try to narrow it down today.

Would I benefit by going with a GMAC from grin over regular Mac? Is the GMAC automatically more efficient because of the regeneration?

 

[Kemosabe70]

I’m curious if the advantages of a having a front suspension ebike in NYC outweigh added weight of the suspension.

I may be able to get away with a steel or even allow frame if suspension isn’t necessary.

 

[amberwolf]

Are the roads smooth?

Or do you have potholes, "asphalt waves", or other road surface problems?

If the former, then suspension doesn't have much to do. If the latter, then which suspension you want depends on how bad and how common the problems are, and whether you can simply always avoid hitting them, or whether that would be more dangerous, with traffic around you.


(asphalt waves are where weigth of vehicles accelerating or braking pushes the asphalt around over time, kinda like scooting your feet on a loose carpet on a smooth surface).