CYC PHOTON

[raylo32]

I agree with all your thoughts here. I have already made the same point about chainrings. With Photon, and TSDZ2 before, 42t is a good all around ring. It won't leave you wanting on the steepest climbs... the only minor quibble is that on MTB tires and gearing you might not be able to go as fast as the motor would allow and as fast as you want pedaling on the pave. But you don't want the 50t ring for emtb.

Some folks here are running those small chainrings but if a climb is that steep to need those it would be too steep to keep the front wheel down. The only reason I can see getting anything smaller than 42t, even on a MTB, is to have a better chance to pedal out on human power if your motor or battery dies. I am going to be doing a Photon build on a road/gravel bike and that one will get the 50t ring so I CAN pedal as fast as I want to go.

Glad to hear the report on the firmware update. Sounds easy and painless and I really need to do that tomorrow.

One addon; Currently using the 34 chain ring, but will receive a 42 in the next days. The motor offers that much power, that the small gears are not really needed anymore (unless you want to ride with motor switched off completely). And on the other end, I'm missing some higher gears, as motor + human power offer enough power in sum to ride 50+ kmh even with an MTB having 29x2.6". So my adive here: Think twice if you really need 34 chain ring....
View attachment 337541

 

[raylo32]

As for the new app and firmware updates... does anyone know if the app updates the SW102 display in addition to the controller? Having been doing this for awhile with TSDZ2 they have always been separate things. And the SW102 is used by many other mfgs who will have different needs and parameters. So I assume it is flashable. But did CYC give that ability in the new app? I have the new app but I am not with my bike to connect it so all I get is the startup screen... so I can't even see what the app's features are yet.

 

[Mongo]

As for the new app and firmware updates... does anyone know if the app updates the SW102 display in addition to the controller? Having been doing this for awhile with TSDZ2 they have always been separate things. And the SW102 is used by many other mfgs who will have different needs and parameters. So I assume it is flashable. But did CYC give that ability in the new app? I have the new app but I am not with my bike to connect it so all I get is the startup screen... so I can't even see what the app's features are yet.

It would be a neat trick if they could do that - perhaps it would bring the "incompatible" displays up to speed, correct the uncalibrated voltage reading (in some cases), etc. And justify the premium prices CYC is charging for their display firmware.

 

[raylo32]

Yeah, in addition to inability to set my wheel size I have a voltage anomaly. Seems to read about 0.5-1V high at least when I initially connect a fully charged 52V battery. Comes off the Satiator at 58.8V and reads well over 59V on the SW102.

It would be a neat trick if they could do that - perhaps it would bring the "incompatible" displays up to speed, correct the uncalibrated voltage reading (in some cases), etc. And justify the premium prices CYC is charging for their display firmware.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Regarding voltage readings I have similar issue on 750c display. Voltage on display is always lower by 0.2v-0.3v than in the app.

 

[hindesite]

As for the new app and firmware updates... does anyone know if the app updates the SW102 display in addition to the controller? Having been doing this for awhile with TSDZ2 they have always been separate things. And the SW102 is used by many other mfgs who will have different needs and parameters. So I assume it is flashable. But did CYC give that ability in the new app? I have the new app but I am not with my bike to connect it so all I get is the startup screen... so I can't even see what the app's features are yet.

CYC have updated the manual for the app, is available on their downloads page.

 

[raylo32]

As to firmware updates it looks like it just does the motor controller, not also the display. So if my wheel size issue is in the display this won't help. We'll see tomorrow.

CYC have updated the manual for the app, is available on their downloads page.

 

[hindesite]

I agree with all your thoughts here. I have already made the same point about chainrings. With Photon, and TSDZ2 before, 42t is a good all around ring. It won't leave you wanting on the steepest climbs... the only minor quibble is that on MTB tires and gearing you might not be able to go as fast as the motor would allow and as fast as you want pedaling on the pave. But you don't want the 50t ring for emtb.

Some folks here are running those small chainrings but if a climb is that steep to need those it would be too steep to keep the front wheel down. The only reason I can see getting anything smaller than 42t, even on a MTB, is to have a better chance to pedal out on human power if your motor or battery dies. I am going to be doing a Photon build on a road/gravel bike and that one will get the 50t ring so I CAN pedal as fast as I want to go.

Glad to hear the report on the firmware update. Sounds easy and painless and I really need to do that tomorrow.

I disagree somewhat, while 42T might be a good choice when possible, but for reasonably specced and recent MTBs, that is just not an option. Most of these bikes will take 34T max due to the configuration of the chainstays and BB - collateral damage from the move to 1x drive trains. The plus side of this is you generally get a much wider (~520%) gear range which you retain when to move to the single front chainring.

34T is actually fine - you can ride up anything - and modern bikes are also a lot longer and have steeper seat tubes which makes climbing better. Descending can often look a lot more scary than going up some of the climbs I encounter round here.

The beauty of the Photon is that you can use the motor with any bike, and we all have totally different riding environments.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

New app finally allows for torque sensor calibration for stealth gen1! I will have to test that option tomorrow. I wonder if human power will be now correctly calculated.

 

[hindesite]

New app finally allows for torque sensor calibration for stealth gen1! I will have to test that option tomorrow. I wonder if human power will be now correctly calculated.

Nope.

Not on Photon, anyway.

 

[raylo32]

Is that a custom made battery? I have an CYC X1 Pro Gen 2 on an older Stumpjumper XC with very little room in the triangle so my 52V Super Shark pack won't fit there. I currently have s seatpost rack that is designed for at least 30 pounds and it seems to work well. But I'd much prefer a solid mount like this.

View attachment 337541

 

[tomholz]

@raylo32: Yes, that battery is custom made:
- 14s3p
- 28x Samsung INR21700-50S 5000mAh - 35A
- 14x LG INR21700-M58T 5570 mAh - 12,5 A
- Daly 60A BMS with balancing an Bluetooth
- rectangular cell arrangement 3x14 using 3x1 21700 cell holders/spacers
Not really looking nice at the moment. Wrapped with Kapton insulation tape and then aluminium tape as sealing cover.
But rather lightweight, and can deliver 50+ amps continuous due to the INR21700-50S.

 

[steve s]

Hi Everyone, what is the general consensus for temperature limits? I have seen a few videos where the photon is running at quite high temperatures but am curious if anyone has fried a controller or damaged a motor? I'm finding as long as I pick gears carefully and don't use full power up steep hills I can keep it under 150f.

 

[raylo32]

The motor will throttle itself for high temp so I really don't worry about it. IIRC you can go a good bit higher than 150. I pushed mine hard (pedaling) on race level 3 on one of my local climbs up to 190F or so and don't believe it throttled. And it cooled down to lower temps pretty quickly. Those were motor temps. The times I looked at controller temp it was never over about 105F.

Edit: but I bet if I had tried the same thing just on full throttle it would have reached the temp limits. But that isn't what this motor was designed for nor how I ride.

Hi Everyone, what is the general consensus for temperature limits? I have seen a few videos where the photon is running at quite high temperatures but am curious if anyone has fried a controller or damaged a motor? I'm finding as long as I pick gears carefully and don't use full power up steep hills I can keep it under 150f.

 

[raylo32]

Well, I opened up the new Ride Control app (very nice, BTW) and updated my Photon controller firmware. Man, that worked great. So much easier via BT than cables and programmers! But it did not fix my wheel size issue being locked on 29". So, 100% that it is the SW102 display that is faulty. I am Not sure why this process to resolve this is like pulling teeth. It should be simple. Send me a new SW102. I am going to give the vendor and CYC a few more days, and that's it. I will return it if I have to. I don't want to, but if I have to, I will.

As aside, the new app allows you to make the wheel selection within the app for 500c and 750c displays. Guessing those are for Stealth and X1 gen 3 units. IIRC I don't see those displays as options for Photon. But apparently not for SW102, which needs to be done in the SW102 settings menu... the part that is broken on mine.

 

[steve s]

Well, I opened up the new Ride Control app (very nice, BTW) and updated my Photon controller firmware. Man, that worked great. So much easier via BT than cables and programmers! But it did not fix my wheel size issue being locked on 29". So, 100% that it is the SW102 display that is faulty. I am Not sure why this process to resolve this is like pulling teeth. It should be simple. Send me a new SW102. I am going to give the vendor and CYC a few more days, and that's it. I will return it if I have to. I don't want to, but if I have to, I will.

As aside, the new app allows you to make the wheel selection within the app for 500c and 750c displays. But apparently not for SW102, which needs to be done in the SW102 settings menu... the part that is broken on mine.

For future reference I had really fantastic service from Matt at bicycle motor works my photon came with a bad main harness and he sent me a new harness and sw102 with a return envelope and I was up and running in two days!

 

[raylo32]

Do they have a webstore?

Edit: I see that they do.

For future reference I had really fantastic service from Matt at bicycle motor works my photon came with a bad main harness and he sent me a new harness and sw102 with a return envelope and I was up and running in two days!

 

[Bengy22]

Do they have a webstore?

https://bicyclemotorworks.com

I also had a good experience talking to Matt, but about the battery I bought two years ago that I'm still happy with.

 

[Mongo]

Hi Everyone, what is the general consensus for temperature limits? I have seen a few videos where the photon is running at quite high temperatures but am curious if anyone has fried a controller or damaged a motor? I'm finding as long as I pick gears carefully and don't use full power up steep hills I can keep it under 150f.

As @raylo32 wrote, the Photon looks after itself, so I don't have to - and I too have pushed on it hard (at 2kw).

 

[Mongo]

https://bicyclemotorworks.com

I also had a good experience talking to Matt, but about the battery I bought two years ago that I'm still happy with.

I've been doing some business with them too - quick shipping so far, eastern U.S.

 

[raylo32]

Well, that's interesting... I was wondering where BMW is located. Nothing on their website to indicate that except the 484 area code which tracks to Allentown, PA. Only a 3 hour drive for me so I could drop in... except there is no indication they have a retail location. Might just be run out of their house?

 

[Mongo]

500C on a Photon update - it works, as in displays what data it can (no temps, and other Photon-specific stuff), but there are two quirks noted so far:

1. While the 500C supports switching between street and race mode and indicates the switch (nice), the Photon seems to ignore it as far as I can tell (via the app) (boo)
2. despite hard-setting the street/race mode in the app, the motor always starts up in street mode with the 500C - behaves correctly with the SW102

If you dislike the SW102 or DS103 displays and can live with the above, the 500C display may be an alternative. And who knows, maybe CYC will update the 500C firmware somehow.

 

[raylo32]

I am OK with the 102. It just needs to work. ;-0 I have a 500c on my X1 Pro Gen 2 with BAC 850 and I like it. But not enough to swap it and try it out. And not enough to lose the other data. So, since the 500 and 750 appear to work with the X6 controllers in X1 and Stealth Gen 3, what controller does Photon have? An X6 lite?

500C on a Photon update - it works, as in displays what data it can (no temps, and other Photon-specific stuff), but there are two quirks noted so far:

1. While the 500C supports switching between street and race mode and indicates the switch (nice), the Photon seems to ignore it as far as I can tell (via the app) (boo)
2. despite hard-setting the street/race mode in the app, the motor always starts up in street mode

If you dislike the SW102 or DS103 displays and can live with the above, the 500C display may be an alternative. And who knows, maybe CYC will update the 500C firmware somehow.

 

[steve s]

Well, that's interesting... I was wondering where BMW is located. Nothing on their website to indicate that except the 484 area code which tracks to Allentown, PA. Only a 3 hour drive for me so I could drop in... except there is no indication they have a retail location. Might just be run out of their house?

I don't know for sure buy I think it might be a home business as mentioned by someone else I'm very happy with the battery I bought from him over a year ago.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

I am OK with the 102. It just needs to work. ;-0 I have a 500c on my X1 Pro Gen 2 with BAC 850 and I like it. But not enough to swap it and try it out. And not enough to lose the other data. So, since the 500 and 750 appear to work with the X6 controllers in X1 and Stealth Gen 3, what controller does Photon have? An X6 lite?

X6p
Btw Has anybody tried connecting eggrider display to check if Basic functions work?