CYC PHOTON

[Atak_Snajpera]

Does Wh/km calculation and ODO work correctly now with new app and new firmware?

 

[hindesite]

As I've typed before, I'd really like it if CYC would develop a optional headless on/on & level switch pad that Bluetoothed a Garmin compatible data stream - the Garmin GPS displays are much, much easier to read, even in direct sunlight. Do away with the wheel speed sensor & wiring, too.

But the Photon needs access to the speed, how would that data get back from the Garmin to the Photon controller.

Far easier to just put a GPS in a display/level controller and output or log from there. Less wiring and easier installation, as I wrote a few pages back. These days a full GPS system cost <$30, and that includes casing, battery, display. I doubt if the GPS soc itself costs more than a few $$. Probably cheaper than the current speed sensor and wiring, connectors and installation time.

 

[Mongo]

SW102 supports switching between street and race modes, within 15s of startup.

Thanks @hindesite - I didn't think to look in that menu.

 

[raylo32]

No way to know on mine since the wheel size is still locked onto 29... and I have 26 wheels.

Does Wh/km calculation and ODO work correctly now with new app and new firmware?

 

[raylo32]

Just like any other changes to menu settings. They really should have made the race/street switchable from the operating screen, because to switch you have to stop, power down the system, start it back up and enter the menu. What a PITA for that. Should be able to do that on the fly.

SW102 supports switching between street and race modes, within 15s of startup.

 

[Mongo]

But the Photon needs access to the speed, how would that data get back from the Garmin to the Photon controller.

Far easier to just put a GPS in a display/level controller and output or log from there. Less wiring and easier installation, as I wrote a few pages back. These days a full GPS system cost <$30, and that includes casing, battery, display. I doubt if the GPS soc itself costs more than a few $$. Probably cheaper than the current speed sensor and wiring, connectors and installation time.

For the rider power calcs? If so, maybe just give that work to the Garmin Edge computers as well. I want bicycle-routing-centric on-the-fly turn-by-turn direction capabilities, not just GPS speed - dunno if CYC and friends would want to get into the mapping headache.

Not expecting a headless display to ever come about though.

 

[Mongo]

Does Wh/km calculation and ODO work correctly now with new app and new firmware?

I think @hindesite reported a few pages back that human power is still not correctly calculated - don't recall any comments on the odometer.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Just like any other changes to menu settings. They really should have made the race/street switchable from the operating screen, because to switch you have to stop, power down the system, start it back up and enter the menu. What a PITA for that. Should be able to do that on the fly.

I remember that my eggrider was able to switch profiles on fly when I had Asi bac controller. With 750c I had to always switch off/on display after changing profile. I'm really disappointed that eggrider team is not willing to support x6 controller.

 

[raylo32]

I'm pretty sure my X1 Pro with BAC 850 and 500c display can be switched between race and street on the fly.... or at least without powering off and restarting to get to that choice.

I remember that my eggrider was able to switch profiles on fly when I had Asi bac controller. With 750c I had to always switch off/on display after changing profile. I'm really disappointed that eggrider team is not willing to support x6 controller.

 

[hindesite]

Just like any other changes to menu settings. They really should have made the race/street switchable from the operating screen, because to switch you have to stop, power down the system, start it back up and enter the menu. What a PITA for that. Should be able to do that on the fly.

I disagree. For many users, they'll just use it out of the box and never change anything, either on the display or the app. If the intention is to sell the bike as legal for some jurisdictions, CYC have taken the right approach.

I find that just setting this up (with only 3 levels) I just use Street mode (and BTW this has improved with the default top speed able to be changed after the latest firmware update).

 

[hindesite]

I think @hindesite reported a few pages back that human power is still not correctly calculated - don't recall any comments on the odometer.

True, but there is Wh/km for battery efficiency. I don't know how to check that accuracy without some kind of external voltage and current monitoring.

 

[raylo32]

One way to check if you have a Satiator is the next time you charge the battery it reports how many AH it put back. Convert that to WH... and you have the miles you rode, so do the calculation and compare to what the Photon says. Although conversion will be approximate due to the voltage varying with state of charge.

True, but there is Wh/km for battery efficiency. I don't know how to check that accuracy without some kind of external voltage and current monitoring.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

True, but there is Wh/km for battery efficiency. I don't know how to check that accuracy without some kind of external voltage and current monitoring.

What value do you see after a fast ride with strong assist? If value is very low lets say below 5wh/km then IT is still broken.

 

[tomholz]

I currently have a 34T and a 42T chain-ring.
As for perfect chainline, I would need to get the chain-ring some mm towards the inner, I'm looking if the chain-rings can be disassebled and modified.

The Photon chain-rings seems to be assembled from three pieces:
- A kind of spider, that connects to the motor and created mechanical offset (aluminium I think)
- The chain-ring (made of steel)
- cover/protector (made of carbon for the 34T and aluminium for the 42T)

Does anyone know, how those parts are connected?
Are they heat-shrinked and pressed?

 

[raylo32]

This makes little sense to me. We have a system with an app that has detailed settings for every little thing. So, it seems like this is meant for people who are into this stuff and who understand and will tweak their settings. BTW, I could also change my Street Mode speed limits beyond the default in the first firmware once I set the device to unrestricted.

I have street mode programmed to levels that support my lower power GA cell battery which turns out to be 25 amps, not 30 as I thought. According to EM3EV this battery does not have BMS cutoff so I set limits that will keep it under the max. And I guess it isn't too difficult to make the switch to Street Mode when just starting up with that battery. My other 30Q cell battery is 50 amps with BMS protection, so it gets max settings and run in Race Mode.

Although I am not sure how much longer I am going to have this Photon. About a week ago I was having a productive email discussion with the vendor... finally, after being ignored totally for 3 weeks... about my display problem, and they said they were going to be chatting with CYC the next day to get a path forward. That was over a week ago... and they have gone totally dark again. LOL. They haven't provided me with that update nor do they respond at all when I ask. Good lord. How do these people stay in business? I am >< this close to starting a dispute with my credit card company for a chargeback refund. It's looking more and more like I have no alternative.

I disagree. For many users, they'll just use it out of the box and never change anything, either on the display or the app. If the intention is to sell the bike as legal for some jurisdictions, CYC have taken the right approach.

I find that just setting this up (with only 3 levels) I just use Street mode (and BTW this has improved with the default top speed able to be changed after the latest firmware update).

 

[steve s]

SW102 supports switching between street and race modes, within 15s of startup.

It is much nicer on the eggrider you just push one button to go from street to race on my bbs02 I liked setting race to the level I wanted to ride and street to zero assist so I could switch assist off every time I went down a hill.

 

[Mongo]

I currently have a 34T and a 42T chain-ring.
As for perfect chainline, I would need to get the chain-ring some mm towards the inner, I'm looking if the chain-rings can be disassebled and modified.

The Photon chain-rings seems to be assembled from three pieces:
- A kind of spider, that connects to the motor and created mechanical offset (aluminium I think)
- The chain-ring (made of steel)
- cover/protector (made of carbon for the 34T and aluminium for the 42T)

Does anyone know, how those parts are connected?
Are they heat-shrinked and pressed?

I think the 34T has four pieces, and the others have three:

1. the splined & threaded spider
2. the splined flat steel chain ring
3. the threaded six-pin retainer ring (38T-42T-50T with integrated guard)
4. for the 34T, a separate carbon fiber guard (why? Who knows)

For reference, look at these piece parts. The retainer ring supposedly unthreads with the kit pin wrench, but I suspect using a long-handle pin wrench would be better. Clockwise or counter-clockwise thread - dunno.

Regarding the chain line, I'm guessing you didn't put any spacers on the drive side, as CYC calls for on 68mm BB frames. I was able to hit a measured 47mm chain line on this 68mm BB build, with all of the required spacers on the non-drive side, with a slight bit more left-side pedal offset.

It appears to me that CYC could have achieved a slightly bit better (more left) chain line, but chose not to. There's also a build-need case for a farther out/flatter spider, to accommodate Rohloff hubs (58mm chain line).

 

[tomholz]

I also agree that the CYC implementation for switch race <-> is fine for many countries:
If I'm stopped by police while driving in race mode, I just have to switch the bike off while stopping.
When I'm then asked if this bike is in legal range (25kmh for Germany), I just have to turn in on, and it will start up in street mode (configured to legal limits).
As the time window to enter the config menu closes after some seconds, it will also be not obvious that the bike can easily configured to non-legal settings.

 

[tomholz]

I think the 34T has four pieces, and the others have three:

1. the splined & threaded spider
2. the splined flat steel chain ring
3. the threaded six-pin retainer ring (38T-42T-50T with integrated guard)
4. for the 34T, a separate carbon fiber guard (why? Who knows)

For reference, look at these piece parts. The retainer ring supposedly unthreads with the kit pin wrench, but I suspect using a long-handle pin wrench would be better. Clockwise or counter-clockwise thread - dunno.

Regarding the chain line, I'm guessing you didn't put any spacers on the drive side, as CYC calls for on 68mm BB frames. I was able to hit a measured 47mm chain line on this 68mm BB build, with all of the required spacers on the non-drive side, with a slight bit more left-side pedal offset.

It appears to me that CYC could have achieved a slightly bit better (more left) chain line, but chose not to. There's also a build-need case for a farther out/flatter spider, to accommodate Rohloff hubs (58mm chain line).

Thanks, that is exactly the information I was looking for.
Agree to what you wrote: A disassembly must be possible.
Will see now if some hacking can be done, to get the chain-ring some mm to the left.
I have no spaces on the drive side, my bike has BB92 and spacer are only on the left side.

 

[raylo32]

Is the chainline so bad that you are having issues shifting or skipping on the big cogs? Or are you just trying to get it perfect?

Thanks, that is exactly the information I was looking for.
Agree to what you wrote: A disassembly must be possible.
Will see now if some hacking can be done, to get the chain-ring some mm to the left.
I have no spaces on the drive side, my bike has BB92 and spacer are only on the left side.

 

[raylo32]

That makes sense, I guess. But if it was a one button press to change on the running screen without shutting down that would give the same result. Copper would see street mode.

I also agree that the CYC implementation for switch race <-> is fine for many countries:
If I'm stopped by police while driving in race mode, I just have to switch the bike off while stopping.
When I'm then asked if this bike is in legal range (25kmh for Germany), I just have to turn in on, and it will start up in street mode (configured to legal limits).
As the time window to enter the config menu closes after some seconds, it will also be not obvious that the bike can easily configured to non-legal settings.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

That makes sense, I guess. But if it was a one button press to change on the running screen without shutting down that would give the same result. Copper would see street mode.

I had configured eggrider to change profiles only when M Button was pressed by 3 seconds. Single click was showing stats.

 

[steve s]

Craigslist got me! I wonder what I should do with it??

 

[Chalo]

Craigslist got me! I wonder what I should do with it??

I've built and sold quite a few Bridge Clubs. They look wrong and are too cramped with 700c wheels. 650B (27.5") wheels look and work fine, but what would fit, look, and work awesomely best would be 26 x 3.0".

As far as what you should do with it? Have fun and get lots of saddle time, of course!

 

[hindesite]

Thanks, that is exactly the information I was looking for.
Agree to what you wrote: A disassembly must be possible.
Will see now if some hacking can be done, to get the chain-ring some mm to the left.
I have no spaces on the drive side, my bike has BB92 and spacer are only on the left side.

So at present you have a 59.3 chainline, what is the chainline you are trying to achieve, and what problems does the current setting cause?

On the narrower BSA version of the Photon that I have, the chainline came out perfect, exactly the same as the previously installed DUB chainring, I'd be surprised if CYC got the BB92 wrong.

BTW, for those not familiar with 1x wide range chainsets, backpedaling in the largest gears will often cause the chain to shift, this is regarded as normal and not a chainline issue as such.