Gmac 10T and Frankenrunner problem

[Iceman]

Hi Guys,

Looking for help with my bike.
When I connect my Lipo batterys and pull the throtle it will stutter at first but then run normally.. untill I let go of the throtle. then no power until I reconnect the batterys on my way home. now when I connect it there is nothing happening only the Frankenrunner light blinking 1, then 3 times.

I have ordered a TTL cable to connect the Frankenrunner but get the no controller connected
(yes the batterys are connected to the controller)

This is my cable, could this be the wrong one?
DELOCK - USB 2.0-cable TTL 3,5 mm 4 Pin (5 V) USB A - chinch 1.8 m

Any other idea how I could get it connected? I did update the drivers.

Then I read there could be a problem with water in the GMac so I opened it and yes seemed there it was a little wet inside.
I let it dry and closed it back up the next day, the first start seemed the stutter was almost gone, but then back to normal.

on reddit someone told me this:

Sounds like a hall sensor issue. The Frankenrunner should be able to be set to sensorless fall-back mode, if you haven't already configured it as such.

My friend who helped me build the bike is not reachable, and I am not realy good with electrics.
If it is a hall Sensor issue, is there a part number for this? hope this is a standard part I can find around here.


Any help would be much appreciated!

 

[offGridDownUnder]

but get the no controller connected

Please re-assure us about what version of the software you are using - I have only succeeded in getting the Windows versions to work, and the message you report looks like what I get from the Linux or Mac versions.

 

[Iceman]

Please re-assure us about what version of the software you are using - I have only succeeded in getting the Windows versions to work, and the message you report looks like what I get from the Linux or Mac versions.

I have tryed with windows and mac. Thats why I am suspecting the cable. Is there anything else I can try? On windows it lets me select the port and says com.

 

[amberwolf]

Did the bike ever work correctly? If so, what specifically happened between the time it worked and the time it didn't?

If it has always worked fine under the same riding conditions before now, it is highly unlikely to be a controller setting, but instead is more likely to be directly related to whatever changed between the time it worked and the time it didn't.

What does the FR / PR manual say that blink code is for?

https://ebikes.ca/amfile/file/download/file/218/&ved=2ahUKEwjU5u-Hxe6AAxVOEEQIHTTYBjkQFnoECDMQAw&usg=AOvVaw2DYGVksahiDtf-ZpPQjotW

Frankenrunner - Grin Products - Product Info

The Frankenrunner is another field oriented motor controller collaboration with ASI based on their more powerful BAC855 capable of up to 72V operation. It is produced as a stopgap controller in between the availability of the V3 and V4 Phaserunners devices.

ebikes.ca

If it was just that it got wet, then I'd make sure everything in the system is completely dry inside and out wherever possible. This includes inside any "waterproof" connectors, as they sometimes aren't.

Sometimes water intrusion inside connectors with battery voltages in them can cause electrical damage to parts, especially on motor-to-controller connections that include both phase and hall connectors (5v and battery level wires together), and in plugs that go from controllers to displays or cycle analysts, which also have both levels of voltage inside.

Water doesn't normally damage motor halls, but you can test the hall signals directly if you have a few parts handy, like an unused spare USB charger for something and a wired (rather than surface mount) 1kohm-10kohm resistor out of a broken bit of older electronics, and a multimeter or even a white or blue LED. (others work too but you need a second 1kohm-ish resistor for those).


The communication issue might be the one noted here

Frankenrunner - Grin Products - Product Info

The Frankenrunner is another field oriented motor controller collaboration with ASI based on their more powerful BAC855 capable of up to 72V operation. It is produced as a stopgap controller in between the availability of the V3 and V4 Phaserunners devices.

ebikes.ca

so I'd ask grin about that to be sure first.

 

[Iceman]

Hi thanks so much for taking time to reply.

Yes the bike was working perfect for over a year.
Then I was at a festival with lots of rain and mud.
I had parked the bike (on a dry day) and suddenly these issues started.

This is what the manual says about the fault:
1-3 Current Sensor Calibration
If I unplug the controller it goes back to red, but then goes back to stutter. It’s funny that after the first stutter it will drive until I let go of the throttle. Then it’s back to this error.

What I have seen the connections look good.
I will open it again, get a multimeter and try to do the tests for the hall sensors.

The connection from franken to mac worked fine when we did the installation, but I don’t have that original cable…

Any other ideas much appreciated

 

[amberwolf]

Yes the bike was working perfect for over a year.
Then I was at a festival with lots of rain and mud.
I had parked the bike (on a dry day) and suddenly these issues started.

If the bike didn't have any unusual handling between those times, then the most likely problem is water intrusion into a connection or cable. It can take time for water to seep into (and back out of) some things, causing a delay. It can also be that the water intruded, carrying conductive contaminants that when dry cause connections they shouldn't, or cause oxidation in connector pins/etc that when dry prevent connections that should be there.

It could be from water in the motor itself, but probably not--it could take a fair bit of water in a Gmac to get up into the motor bell housing and stator area enough to cause a problem, vs a DD hub that has those right out near the magnets. .

This is what the manual says about the fault:
1-3 Current Sensor Calibration
If I unplug the controller it goes back to red, but then goes back to stutter. It’s funny that after the first stutter it will drive until I let go of the throttle. Then it’s back to this error.

Current sensor could mean one in the wires to the phases or in the supply from the battery. If it's in the motor phases, then that could be caused by a current leakage from one phase to another, from water or corrosion between them inside a connector or a motor; presumably the potted controller can't have water intrusion in there.

If it's in the supply, it would be more likely to be an actual fault in the sensor, as there's not much way to get an imbalance in current as there's only one sensor.

What I have seen the connections look good.
I will open it again, get a multimeter and try to do the tests for the hall sensors.

You don't have to open it to test hte sensors. that test is best done with it closed up at the connector. If you need the details of the test and have the parts around to do it, I can post those.

 

[Iceman]

Dear Amberwolf, I finally got the connector cable for the nine pin connector. at first no luck as well. In the end I updated the drivers for the TTL cable on my old macbook again and was able to connect to the Frankenrunner directly without the 9 pin adapter, so I guess the connection issue was with the cable I had bought here localy or the drivers.

As recommended I changed the settings to Sensorless and there we go bike was spinnging again. I still get the stutter at the start but , only sometimes. what is odd is the Error that occours when I set back to sensor start changed from blinking 1-3 to 1-2, phase over current.

what I have seen now is there is a slight cut on the cable coming out of the motor. It seems the half cut spacer is not wide enough. I believe this happened when I took things appart and put them back together not idealy. I taped around the cable but I know I will have to fix this better.

Also I broke off 2 screws when putting the black bracket that connects to the frame back on :-(

Anyway for now it runs and I mainly wanted to get back here and thank for the help received.
I would be happy for tipps how to seal the cable properly as I am sure this will cause problems later on.


Cheers!

 

[amberwolf]

If the cable cut actually goes into the conductors, you might have had an intermittent or high-resistance short created between phases or between halls, or worse between phases *and* halls--the first two, if it's not a dead short, might not damage anything, but still cause problems in operation, but the last one even with a momentary one-time short would connect battery voltage to the low voltage halls *and* the hall inputs to the controller, which can blow up either or both of those things.

It could explain the original problem.

A solid short between phases usually blows up the FETs on a typical controller; if it's FOC like teh *runners and has fast enough reaction time to shutdown phases when overcurrent is detected, it might not destroy them...but if it's enough of a short for long enough with high enough current it could still damage the FETs a little, and cause problematic operation under certain conditions (usually extreme ones) .

 

[Iceman]

Hi again, I am back. The bike was working fine until now but stoped working again now.

I get the blinking 2-7 Error. nothing happened directly, but the starting stutter occurred more and stronger towards the end, I had couple of errors were the bike stoped working, I disconnected the wires and it was fine again.

I cannot connect the Franken to my PC or macbook. when I try to connect using the adapter cable I got from Grin, I get an error about the usb device using too much power on both mac and windows (this was the case before when I had problems last time. I tried reinstalling the drivers but no luck.
Is this a known problem? I cannot find anything on the forum or google. could this be a short of somekind?
Also was not able to connect directly into the jack input. last time I wiggled it around and at somepoint it connected. not this time, so far.

I elevated the wheel with the motor, turning the wheel by hand seemed harder than usual and harder at certain points. not sure if this means anything.

here some more pictures of the wheel when taken off the bike. you can see the cable cut talked about before. does not seem like the cables are touching. what do you think?
Also there are some pics where you can see the parts that are supposed to keep the cable from from getting too much pressure on it. seems the me like the half cut spacer (or whatever it`s called) is not wide enough to keep the cable safe. this is how I received the bike. i think.

Yes I know I should have fixed this before things went to s**t. feel like the midnight gospel dude wrecking his simulator.

any help much appreciated!

 

[amberwolf]

Is this the same problem as in your new thread? If so, it might be best if you either kept them in the same thread, or if you add a link to both this thread pointing there, and that thread pointing here, so anyone helping in either place can find all the relevant info. Or copy all the relevant info from here to there.

If it's not the same problem, we can troubleshoot it separately here.