pjwalmsley
10 mW
- Joined
- May 11, 2011
- Messages
- 25
Currently I have a beat up mountain bike running a 9c motor at 48v 40amp. It was garaged for 6 or so due to battery damage. Recently I picked up an old stock AllCell battery to bring it back to life. Unfortunately, the battery is way weaker than the 52v it had prior and after 16 rides something went gone awry. The motor clunks around and kinda grabs but refuses to take the full 2000 watts.
I've found 48v unable to keep pace with traffic, my rim breaks insufficient for city riding, the chain staining work clothes, and the lightweight rims insufficient for northeastern city riding. The bike itself is a beat Trek 4700 in need of a new drive train.
Original plan was to repair or replace the motor. However, now i'm leaning toward a more 'adult' build with proper breaks and a faster top speed. This post is to get back up to speed with trends and what is available.
Requirements:
- Elegant handling with working peddles - I'm ~ 6' tall.
- Clean and low maintenance - I love the regen on my current bike.
- Secure from theft - lock point and removable battery.
- 40mph speed - Seeking fun acceleration for aggressive city riding and speed for bridges and strait roads where people will run you off the road.
- Quiet and discrete - I want to park it in a bike cage at work and avoid cop confrontations.
- Reliable and repairable parts - minimal Chinese junk and overrated gear.
Nice to have:
- 15 degree + hill climbing ability - for NH hills and/or some weekend mountain fun.
- A solid range - ~15 miles for now but this will change.
- Speed - fast is fun!
- Nimble, light, and good geometry. I'm not a huge fan of this FatBike BS in the north east as everything is snow and/or single track. In the city I want something that can navigate gridlock and deal with horribly maintained roads.
- Off-Road abilities.
Thoughts on battery;
I started with LiFePo4 and now have AllCell LiPo. What ever happened to HobbyKing LiPo? Cheap Graphene flat pouches alowing for easy replacement and expansion sound amazing. Did we ever figure out charging/balancing? Are LiPo fires still common with newer LiPo? It seems like everyone has switched to cells and spot welders have become commonplace. Why did screw together cells/plastic connectors never take off? I'm still researching this space on the forums. I've heard emv3 has nice packs. Any other suggestions? I'm open to building something and love the idea of being able to repair and extend batteries.
Thoughts on drive train;
- It seems like there is a trend is towards mid drives. I love the idea if not babying my rear wheel but I want it to look and sound like a bicycle.
- Luna is pushing the Bafang Ultra Magnesium. It doesn't push out much power and to get more power means modding it with a PhaseRunner which drives is kinda sketchy and expensive. Is the power comparable due to the mid drive and gearing?
- My old dream motor was the Tangent ascent. It could put my Banshee to way more use. It looks amazing but the noise, chain maintenance, and price are turn offs.
- My old dream hub was a Crystalite. I settled on a 9c but hated the pinging. Are ES motors now the best bet for a power oriented build?
- Are Ferrofluid and HubSinks now clearly superior to drilled hubs?
- Thoughts on hub driven mid drives (eg. Vector Vortex or Qulbix 140MD style)? Heavy, quiet, and no shifting so superb. Or are they just too heavy and inefficient compared with RC motors (which need gears)? WHY do mid drive ebike motors seem to suck?
Thoughts on the frame;
- Is rear suspension necessary? I ride Downhill at Highland and I actually prefer my mid grade dirt jumper to my banshee wildcard on the slopes. It could be a huge cost savings and make the bike more pedal-able. On the other hand, I think the rough city roads were a huge factor in my bikes death. Coupled with a desire for more power it seems like a full suspension frame is in order? On the other hand, I could remove the busted gears and clamping together some LiPo flat cells between the frame, hook up a phase runner and keep everything cheap, light, and FAsT!?
- What does everyone make of the trend towards Moto parts? Moto tires seem like they could help with spoke and rim issues but I love having big wheels... Thoughts on moto seat? I would love to ride with my girlfriend but am worried about cops and comfort (my El Cheapo seat is soo comfy).
- Does an all in one ebike oriented frame make sense? I looked at a ti hard tail + BBS Ultra build but I'm not sure I trust Chinese frame quality or even value (especially when working with TI). I've then began looking over the frames from EM3, Vector, Qulbix, or NYX (in order of expense). EM3 is the cheapest and seems okay? Vector frames are German/Russian and the styling is coolest IMO. They all look nice, but I love the look and 2 person seat on the Vortex but it's kinda huge - how the f*** to I hang 125lbs in a bike cage...
Qulbix frames are Canadian and seems slightly nicer but sorta too sporty. Plus, they cost a bit more. I like the width of the 76 frame and how the motor is hidden in the 140MD. The NYX frame seems like the most logical design (light box allowing for a top loaded battery) but costs a lot, is large, and I dislike how carbon fiber ages (falls apart during crashes and historically gives nasty splinters). A concern with all of these frames is that they lack any sort of security. The battery is hard to take with you and the side panels are easy to remove. More importantly, there is no obvious spot to lock the frame... I also worry about an integrated battery as the bike will be stored in an un-insulated stairwell that require an extension cord to charge. On the flip side, most bikes with removable batteries seem like Chinese junk. Poor connectors, poor mounts, proprietary and low voltage designs, etc. The Luna Apex has a nice solution but costs a lot and seems kinda low powered.
- Thoughts on just refurbishing a Downhill or Dirt Jumper. My Freeride frame weights 8lbs but is to small and has a cluttered triangle. Regardless, there are plenty of cheap high quality used frames clocking in at half the weight of a purpose built frame. For the price of these frames I could 3d print a custom battery box with some sort or removal mechanism.
Thoughts on modern controllers;
The phase runner looks amazing to my untrained eyes. It seems like the HUD is tied to controller brand. Does controller choice simply come down to power goals? Are Cycle Analysts still the gold standard? I like mine but hate the clutter. It seems like by now controllers would be that size but Bluetooth for stats and offer few critical readouts.
Thank you guys! Sorry if this is a bit nebulous or if I've asked questions that have already been answered (still delving into the forums). Looking forward to this next build!
I've found 48v unable to keep pace with traffic, my rim breaks insufficient for city riding, the chain staining work clothes, and the lightweight rims insufficient for northeastern city riding. The bike itself is a beat Trek 4700 in need of a new drive train.
Original plan was to repair or replace the motor. However, now i'm leaning toward a more 'adult' build with proper breaks and a faster top speed. This post is to get back up to speed with trends and what is available.
Requirements:
- Elegant handling with working peddles - I'm ~ 6' tall.
- Clean and low maintenance - I love the regen on my current bike.
- Secure from theft - lock point and removable battery.
- 40mph speed - Seeking fun acceleration for aggressive city riding and speed for bridges and strait roads where people will run you off the road.
- Quiet and discrete - I want to park it in a bike cage at work and avoid cop confrontations.
- Reliable and repairable parts - minimal Chinese junk and overrated gear.
Nice to have:
- 15 degree + hill climbing ability - for NH hills and/or some weekend mountain fun.
- A solid range - ~15 miles for now but this will change.
- Speed - fast is fun!
- Nimble, light, and good geometry. I'm not a huge fan of this FatBike BS in the north east as everything is snow and/or single track. In the city I want something that can navigate gridlock and deal with horribly maintained roads.
- Off-Road abilities.
Thoughts on battery;
I started with LiFePo4 and now have AllCell LiPo. What ever happened to HobbyKing LiPo? Cheap Graphene flat pouches alowing for easy replacement and expansion sound amazing. Did we ever figure out charging/balancing? Are LiPo fires still common with newer LiPo? It seems like everyone has switched to cells and spot welders have become commonplace. Why did screw together cells/plastic connectors never take off? I'm still researching this space on the forums. I've heard emv3 has nice packs. Any other suggestions? I'm open to building something and love the idea of being able to repair and extend batteries.
Thoughts on drive train;
- It seems like there is a trend is towards mid drives. I love the idea if not babying my rear wheel but I want it to look and sound like a bicycle.
- Luna is pushing the Bafang Ultra Magnesium. It doesn't push out much power and to get more power means modding it with a PhaseRunner which drives is kinda sketchy and expensive. Is the power comparable due to the mid drive and gearing?
- My old dream motor was the Tangent ascent. It could put my Banshee to way more use. It looks amazing but the noise, chain maintenance, and price are turn offs.
- My old dream hub was a Crystalite. I settled on a 9c but hated the pinging. Are ES motors now the best bet for a power oriented build?
- Are Ferrofluid and HubSinks now clearly superior to drilled hubs?
- Thoughts on hub driven mid drives (eg. Vector Vortex or Qulbix 140MD style)? Heavy, quiet, and no shifting so superb. Or are they just too heavy and inefficient compared with RC motors (which need gears)? WHY do mid drive ebike motors seem to suck?
Thoughts on the frame;
- Is rear suspension necessary? I ride Downhill at Highland and I actually prefer my mid grade dirt jumper to my banshee wildcard on the slopes. It could be a huge cost savings and make the bike more pedal-able. On the other hand, I think the rough city roads were a huge factor in my bikes death. Coupled with a desire for more power it seems like a full suspension frame is in order? On the other hand, I could remove the busted gears and clamping together some LiPo flat cells between the frame, hook up a phase runner and keep everything cheap, light, and FAsT!?
- What does everyone make of the trend towards Moto parts? Moto tires seem like they could help with spoke and rim issues but I love having big wheels... Thoughts on moto seat? I would love to ride with my girlfriend but am worried about cops and comfort (my El Cheapo seat is soo comfy).
- Does an all in one ebike oriented frame make sense? I looked at a ti hard tail + BBS Ultra build but I'm not sure I trust Chinese frame quality or even value (especially when working with TI). I've then began looking over the frames from EM3, Vector, Qulbix, or NYX (in order of expense). EM3 is the cheapest and seems okay? Vector frames are German/Russian and the styling is coolest IMO. They all look nice, but I love the look and 2 person seat on the Vortex but it's kinda huge - how the f*** to I hang 125lbs in a bike cage...
Qulbix frames are Canadian and seems slightly nicer but sorta too sporty. Plus, they cost a bit more. I like the width of the 76 frame and how the motor is hidden in the 140MD. The NYX frame seems like the most logical design (light box allowing for a top loaded battery) but costs a lot, is large, and I dislike how carbon fiber ages (falls apart during crashes and historically gives nasty splinters). A concern with all of these frames is that they lack any sort of security. The battery is hard to take with you and the side panels are easy to remove. More importantly, there is no obvious spot to lock the frame... I also worry about an integrated battery as the bike will be stored in an un-insulated stairwell that require an extension cord to charge. On the flip side, most bikes with removable batteries seem like Chinese junk. Poor connectors, poor mounts, proprietary and low voltage designs, etc. The Luna Apex has a nice solution but costs a lot and seems kinda low powered.- Thoughts on just refurbishing a Downhill or Dirt Jumper. My Freeride frame weights 8lbs but is to small and has a cluttered triangle. Regardless, there are plenty of cheap high quality used frames clocking in at half the weight of a purpose built frame. For the price of these frames I could 3d print a custom battery box with some sort or removal mechanism.
Thoughts on modern controllers;
The phase runner looks amazing to my untrained eyes. It seems like the HUD is tied to controller brand. Does controller choice simply come down to power goals? Are Cycle Analysts still the gold standard? I like mine but hate the clutter. It seems like by now controllers would be that size but Bluetooth for stats and offer few critical readouts.
Thank you guys! Sorry if this is a bit nebulous or if I've asked questions that have already been answered (still delving into the forums). Looking forward to this next build!
