KONA Entourage Build Thread - middrive (pic heavy)

[rodgah]

that is nuts cant wait to see it done!

 

[izeman]

that is nuts cant wait to see it done!

it's all your fault. your bike was my inspiration

 

[crossbreak]

really nuts! How will you connect it back together? Steel and alloy are hard to weld Or do you really go the epoxy route?

 

[waynebergman]

crossbreak I think the steel is just in the jig to keep things in line for repositioning the aluminum fabrication.

 

[izeman]

crossbreak I think the steel is just in the jig to keep things in line for repositioning the aluminum fabrication.

Yes exactly. The frame is just clamped to the jig made of steel (which we have plenty of, and is easier to weld). I will NOT try to weld those two materials together
We have some AL7020 to make the box out of, so a good match to the AL7005 the frame is made of.

 

[madin88]

nice to see the project is in progress

if i look at the pic with the saw cutting the frame i could just cry, but i think the finished bike will be more stable than before
Will the batterie box be removeable or fix?

 

[izeman]

if i look at the pic with the saw cutting the frame i could just cry, but i think the finished bike will be more stable than before
Will the batterie box be removeable or fix?

NOW you can start crying:

[youtube]cDIk7T2-RkA[/youtube]

no. the battery box will be fully welded to the frame. actually it will replace big parts of the frame. the main problem is to find a way to position everything in a kind that it's easily serviceable, durable, and idiot proof. i think i will be able to acchieve all three goals.

 

[madin88]

no. the battery box will be fully welded to the frame. actually it will replace big parts of the frame. the main problem is to find a way to position everything in a kind that it's easily serviceable, durable, and idiot proof. i think i will be able to acchieve all three goals.

it looked like the battery will be in a separate box like a "box in box". is it not?
make it removeable would be great in winter. i think of leave the bike outside and store the batt in the warm house, or take it for charging.
idiot proof is always good If i build something, i personally always think what will happen if it gets in the hands of people who have absolutely no knowledge about this stuff.

the connection board for the batteries is very nice. no inconvenient balance wire soldering etc. just put the LiPo in there and connect it. Nice!

 

[crossbreak]

i like the board as well. Even HXT plug are available for through-hole soldering, so you dont need to use XT60. They are called "HXT Pre-installed Bullets"

Still i like the XT60 since they are small. Making such a pcb should be fairly simple with a stripboard pcb. Do this for the balancer plugs


Great to hear that you go for alloy welding in the end, really keen to see your results!

 

[rodgah]

NOW you can start crying:

that is my favorite frame, even though konas are not very exotic I just really like its shape.

 

[izeman]

that is my favorite frame, even though konas are not very exotic I just really like its shape.

to be honest: i don't really like it. too organic. i like straight tubes and frames more. but the whole bike was a steal, so i bought it. and i may NOT have cut a large frame. but they had small ones left only.

 

[izeman]

i like the board as well. Even HXT plug are available for through-hole soldering, so you dont need to use XT60. They are called "HXT Pre-installed Bullets"

i've seen them. but they are way too big. the board with xt60 male and female and 10awg wire to the battery can hardly fit insight the 50mm height of the battery. so those plugs where the only ones possible.

Great to hear that you go for alloy welding in the end, really keen to see your results!

i will make the welding preparation only - cutting sheet in pieces, cleaning and dot welding. the final welding and welding to the frame will be done by a professionell welder - i don't trust my welding if my life depends on it.

 

[izeman]

no. the battery box will be fully welded to the frame. actually it will replace big parts of the frame. the main problem is to find a way to position everything in a kind that it's easily serviceable, durable, and idiot proof. i think i will be able to acchieve all three goals.

it looked like the battery will be in a separate box like a "box in box". is it not?
make it removeable would be great in winter. i think of leave the bike outside and store the batt in the warm house, or take it for charging.
idiot proof is always good If i build something, i personally always think what will happen if it gets in the hands of people who have absolutely no knowledge about this stuff.

the connection board for the batteries is very nice. no inconvenient balance wire soldering etc. just put the LiPo in there and connect it. Nice!

thanks
no. the box is not in a separate box. i'm building the box with card board to see if everything fits in. then the card board will be cut in pieces and same sized aluminium parts will be made and welded together.
you can remove the batteries quite easily one by one. so if you need to test one of them, or one has a broken cell it can be replaced. you may ride the bike as a 1p, 2p, 3p or 4p configuration. you can decide between range or weight (though i guess it will always be 20ah - 4p).
cold weather: let's put it that way: i will ride the bike only when the batteries are happy as well.
for the winter time i will take them out of the bike and park the bike in the garage.

 

[izeman]

i was working on a half twist throttle to match it the sram grip shift which i moved to the left side of the handle bar. i bought a grip shift replacement grip.


it was glued to the inner plastic tube. was difficult to remove and took me at least one hour. but it fitted perfectly to the half twist throttle which i had to make 1cm longer. i used two component glue to glue the grip to the throttle. worked fine. then i wrapped the rubber part back to smear the glue onto the tube and onto the rubber inner side as it has to dry first before you press it together.

and suddenly ... the glue's solvent destroyed the rubber. at least almost. it broke several times. i wrapped it back to the tube and let it dry.
this is the result:


and installed on the handle bar together with propalm short clamping grips. i'm really frustrated. a lot of work just to make it look perfect, and now i have a broken grip and glue all over it.


i will see if i can live with it and maybe replace it once it's worn.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

today i took some 3mm thick card board (for architects) and started to cut out the parts for the box.

I think it would be easier to use rectangular aluminum tubing, and cutting an access panel, instead of building the box from scratch. If you can't find tubing that's large enough on both sides you could cut the aluminum tube in half horizontally and weld in a panel on one side and an access panel on the other side (which I think would still be easier than building a complete box).

using CAD i constructed the battery box's shape.

IMO an oval tube, with curves near the BB and top-tube would be better aesthetically. You might not be able to find oval aluminum tubing that is large enough but you could use a piece of round aluminum tubing or pipe and cut it in half horizontally and weld in a panel on one side and an access panel on the other side. If you want curve(s) you could bend the aluminum pipe before cutting it in half.

I'm not sure how tight a bend you can make, here is an example of a ebike frame made by bending aluminum tubing:

 

[izeman]

thanks mitch for sharing your thoughts. i wanted to build this with tubes when i started. but it was very hard to find aluminium tubing of that dimensions, and impossible some 7xxx alloy. at least not the amount you need to build one bike. small amounts are very hard to find.
so i had to go for sheets. it's some work to cut and weld, and it may not look as good a a tube, but i have no other way of doing it.

oval tubes for connecting to box to the frame surely look nice. i will think of a way to make them. we'll see

right now i continued to work on the card board box. i was unsure if it would be solid. and if force from the round motor housing to the square battery boxes could be too much. but even the card board box is soooo rigid. it would be hard to deform it with your hands as is.

so this is what the box looks like right now. there is some space for the bms between battery and motor. controller will be placed in top - between battery box and rear damper.


it's very hard to position it and take a foto. i would need two more hands

 

[crossbreak]

looks good... I would want the motor to be mounted closer to the BB, I guess the damper is in the way :x
can you plz pot some pics of the sprocket adapter I made for you I'm really keen to see how it fits onto the MAC shaft (spacing to the housing??)

 

[izeman]

i would want to have it as near as possible. but if i move it closer to the bb then the chain will hit the rear frame pivot. if i move it higher and closer so the chain can pass it, then the damper hits the box when compressed
i will take a picture one the side cover is done and the axle is shortened. ok?

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

We have some AL7020 to make the box out of, so a good match to the AL7005 the frame is made of.

but it was very hard to find aluminum tubing of that dimensions, and impossible some 7xxx alloy. at least not the amount you need to build one bike. small amounts are very hard to find.

Is it worth contacting either of these companies and asking if they will sell you a small amount (for a prototype )?:
http://www.capalex.co.uk/index.html

Capalex have gained a reputation as the specialist manufacturer of complex, high tolerance aluminium extrusions in a wide range of commercial alloys, including 1050, 1200, 2014, 2014A, 2017A, 2024, 3003, 5083, 6005A, 6060, 6061, 6063, 6063A, 6082, 6463, 7020, 7075 subject to temper requirements and product specification.

Competitively priced and available in any quantity our high quality aluminium extrusion profiles are used in many sectors across the globe. Our customers range from one man engineering shops to some of the biggest multi-nationals.

Email:
enquiries@capalex.com
sales@capalex.com

http://www.aircraftmaterials.com/index.html

We supply aerospace, high tech and speciality alloys to some of the most prestigious names in the industry worldwide and are experts in sourcing speciality metals and “difficult to obtain” grades and alloys. We are experts in exporting all around the world and have successfully supplied to over 50 countries.

Our highly experienced technical team are waiting to help you with your enquiry so contact them now on 01844 275560 or email sales@aircraftmaterialsuk.com

thanks mitch for sharing your thoughts. i wanted to build this with tubes when i started.

so i had to go for sheets. it's some work to cut and weld, and it may not look as good a a tube, but i have no other way of doing it.

oval tubes for connecting to box to the frame surely look nice. i will think of a way to make them. we'll see

Round tubing might be a relatively easy material to source. If so you could make oval tubing something like this (cut a piece of round tubing in half and weld on sides):


EDIT ADDITION:
Searching on google like this: "7020 aluminum tubing" (or rectangular tubing or channel or angle)
worked much better than like this: "aluminum tubing 7020"

 

[crossbreak]

if i move it closer to the bb then the chain will hit the rear frame pivot

Do you use 83mm HT2 cranks? With a 73mm one you will have a lot more spacing issues, I had not only this one. The Zee 83mm is a good choice IMO, I use it with a 73mm BB, has plenty of space ( Or use a 132mm square tapered one)... the chain is too far away from the frame/pivot to interfere anywhere...

you mean the rear pivot? Chain line should be almost the same as original, there shouldn't be any interference?? Just moved a little to the outside?

 

[izeman]

it's not the width of the motor or the bb which causes clearance issues. it's the pivot point right above the bb. it is a quite large bearing that reaches into the chain line.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Take lots of pics of the process, I'd like to write an article on this when its done, so it can be read and seen by a larger audience...

izemans build thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=55215

izemans photodump https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rpbnm9xcdnx5avw/AACrFQAwfw7wT_LDOIYZPNbZa?dl=0

ferret’s GNG crossbreak http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=56178

crossbreak style thread http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245

patents like crossbreak http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/ucp.php?i=pm&mode=view&f=0&p=264319

 

[izeman]

sure! i'm on vacation right now. may take a week or two until i start working again.

 

[izeman]

been some time since the last update. yesterday we almost finished the battery/motor box. the bms was moved to a new location which made the box 3cm shorter and the bms is now saved from water.


i will finish the paper box to check that it's weldable. you have to take care that it not just looks good, but is able to be built as well as soon as this is done i can start cutting the aluminium sheet. a 2m2 big 3mm 7020 was €270.-. quite some money but more than enough to build the two bikes we plan to make.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Next time try this glue, works great with a wide range of material and it definitely won't eat a grip:
http://www.auro.co.uk/auro-tools-an...ge=flypage.tpl&product_id=1701&category_id=33

Auro 390 Contact Glue 75ml
Price per Unit (piece): £4.99

Solvent-free and thus recommended for handicraft work with children. Bonds broken objects that need durable mending: paper, cardboard, wood, many plastics, metal, glass, ceramics, etc. The glue residue is bio-degradable.