Large Go-Cart powered by a cyclone???

[SwampDonkey]

Hello everyone,

Im helping someone on a project (he might pop in to this thread) where he wants to power a quite large 2-seat go cart (roughly 400lbs empty) with an electric motor. The first setup didn't work.
First attempt was with a 60V 2000W MY1020 motor powered by a 60V pack using a Cyclone 3000W controller with a 6 to 1 reduction through the sprockets. The motor barely budged the cart.

We started talking about alternative motors and ways to get more gear reduction, and the 4800W cyclone came to mind. I have experience with these, and the torque they put out is insane.

What do you guys think?

 

[jgrcurtis]

Thank you SwampDonkey for getting this tread started and for the help so far.

I have a large go kart/dune buggy. It is most similar to a Yerf Dog 30032. Here are the relevant specs and parts I have:
1. Approximate weight: 300 lbs, plus 200 lbs in passengers.
2. 18 in tires
3. 72 tooth rear sprocket
4. 60v 15ah battery
5. 72v Cyclone controller modified to approximately 65 max amps
6. Size #40 chain


I tried a DD 72v 4300 rpm motor, the MY1020 with an 11 tooth #40 sprocket, but it did not have enough torque to get it moving. I did get it moving on level concrete, but the shaft on the motor is so small that the thicker sprocket is soon going to strip the double-d part of the shaft. The shaft is only 10mm.

SwampDonkey recommended the Cyclone 4.8kW motor with the planetary gear reducer. That or the 3000w look like it should work. I think they make both with a 14 tooth freewheel bearing. I assume I would need a different sprocket to use my #40 chain. It has been tricky to find specs on these motors, but this spec sheet: http://www.cyclone-tw.com/dc24.htm, shows 800-900 rpm for the 3000w motor. That would only give me 8-9 mph. Maybe a larger motor sprocket would get me better speeds. It would be plenty of torque, but not much top speed.

I am not worried about being street legal. This will primarily be for my 10 and 12 year old kids as they get older. They have a smaller kart, probably about 150 lbs with a 48v 1000w motor, that they ride up an down a hill at our property. The hill is roughly a 10% grade. It would be nice to get top speed in the 15-20 mph range. My budget is already shot, so now I just want to make this thing work. The 4.8kW Cyclone is $289 plus $120 for shipping. I don't love that price, but I can do it.

My other thought was to get a 60v 3000w direct drive motor and connect it to a jackshaft to get my gear reduction. Both the Cyclone or the Jackshaft present some issues with creative mounts, since I don't weld. I guess I need to find a friend with a welder.

I appreciate the help and suggestions. If there is another way I should be thinking about this, please let me know.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Im helping someone on a project (he might pop in to this thread) where he wants to power a quite large 2-seat go cart (roughly 400lbs empty) with an electric motor. The first setup didn't work.
First attempt was with a 60V 2000W MY1020 motor powered by a 60V pack using a Cyclone 3000W controller with a 6 to 1 reduction through the sprockets. The motor barely budged the cart.

We started talking about alternative motors and ways to get more gear reduction, and the 4800W cyclone came to mind. I have experience with these, and the torque they put out is insane.

What do you guys think?

 

[Balmorhea]

It's all about the gearing. Even that MY1020 would have been peppy with enough reduction. You have to be realistic about speed, though. If you reckon what your maximum motor output power is, and how fast you can physically go with that much power, that implies a certain gear ratio for highest top speed. But acceleration will be impaired in that scenario.

Gear it lower than that, and it will have better acceleration and efficiency, but at the cost of lower top speed.

 

[jgrcurtis]

I am going to try a jack shaft before replacing the motor. That seems like a logical first step and it may be necessary even with a geared motor in the future to optimize torque vs. speed.

 

[jgrcurtis]

I built a jackshaft and that helped quite a bit. The 10mm shaft on the motor stripped out because the rotation of the motor loosened the nut and locking washer. It was an odd nut, so I could not find a nylock. I had the sprocket welded on. I was wondering if I could add a second motor to the jackshaft. I was thinking about either getting another of the same motors or upgrading both to a faster 60v motor. I don't think I can do one motor spinning at 4250 RPM and another 5600 RPM. The slower motor would work from a start, but would be spinning out of control at faster speeds, right? The odds of this kart getting to top speed is really slim. If I had two identical motors, could I run them off of the same controller, assuming the controller is capable of meeting the amperage requirement?

I have also seen a lot of the geared motors. Unless I want to wait for something to come from China, the biggest I can find is 60v 1500w. Why are these so much more expensive than dd motors? They are also a lot bigger and heavier. Are they any more durable or stronger? I already built a jackshaft, so it seems the gear reduction aspect is not needed from the motor.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2KW-60V-DC...271894?hash=item2891b554d6:g:4vwAAOSwwN1d52ge

vs.

https://www.amazon.com/BestEquip-Tricycle-Brushless-600RPM-Electric/dp/B085HD7FS5 This one has a controller that I probably don't need.

They make a 60v 2200w version, but I can only find it on aliexpress.

So here are my options:
1. Get another identical motor and connect it to the jackshaft. That would double the torque and not cost too much.
2. Get two faster 60v dd motors and connect them to the jackshaft. That would more than double the torque and increase my top speed.
3. Try the 1500w gear motor. That would let me get rid of the jackshaft, which would increase efficiency slightly, but if it is not enough power, I would be adding a second.
4. Look for a different motor option in the $400 range to suit my project.

 

[bmurai]

Hey, so nice to see someone else looking at a cyclone kit for an off road kart.

I wanted to provide a link to a possible motor you might consider. It's an outrunner style, but on sale and should work fine with most controllers.(Anyone with any experience with these in particular, input is appreciated.)

http://www.revolt.org.il/sale/rv-120-regular-clone/

Additionally, I saw that you mentioned being road legal. Assuming you're in the US it's very likely that it can be registered as a low speed vehicle. Requirements can differ, but mostly it needs to be able to achieve a low speed range and include blinkers/lights/mirrors.

 

[SlowCo]

Revolt motors have a bad reputation here on E-S (seach for it).

 

[bmurai]

Revolt motors have a bad reputation here on E-S (seach for it).

Thanks for the input, I'll definitely check it out. They had seemed like a good price/performance motor when I found them.

Edit: I have looked into some of the reviews and given how recent the last one was, it is likely the motor would be a gamble unfortunately. Thanks for the headsup Slowco.

 

[Forgottenben]

I have a similar cart and I’m wanting to convert it to electric. Any suggestions on how to get a motor that’s in the sweet spot. Good torque and reasonable top speed.

 

[SlowCo]

I have a similar cart and I’m wanting to convert it to electric. Any suggestions on how to get a motor that’s in the sweet spot. Good torque and reasonable top speed.

If you are serious about electrifying you cart then get a serious motor like a QS138 70H or better the 90H:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001276039981.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.2.7c313a24I64zo8 Ask them for a foot throttle instead of the twist one.

A lot of info in this thread about these motors: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93627&start=550