Listen to two 2 posters overreact and accomplish nothing

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DingusMcGee

10 kW
Yes, I fired a `12ga slug into a 12Ah LiPo pouch charged to a top out of 4.09 v. Now that resulted in a rapidly made 1” diameter hole thru the pouch severing some dendritic copper wires and short circuiting other dendritic wires. Explosions happen when an energy wave propagates so fast that material/energy flies from the wave front. Nothing quite that spectacular here — this is not prima cord 19,000 ft/sec.

But from an energy standpoint the cell had some 3.9 v X 12 aH = 48 watt-hrs of energy to dissipate. Suppose this energy is dissipated in 10 sec. The rate then would be 48watts hrs = 48 x 360 faster than a one hour dissipation which is equivalent to a QS 3000 motor just consuming 17,280 watts/sec for 10 sec. The motor will not burn up at this rate for 10 sec. It may be warm.

The cell was out of electrical/chemical energy in maybe 10 sec - no explosion - but the alum cell covering melted and the char pile was hot. You could move out of the heat unless somehow restrained.

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DogDipstick

100 kW
12aH aint to much stored energy. What kind of cell was it? Production EV, cheap China clone, Hobbyking cell? Makes a difference. A good Chevrolet cell will take a 12ga no prob... without to much trouble. Dont do that to a Hobbyking cell.

Lithium certainly has a TNT equivelent energy output. My bike stores 1800wH nominal.... eq to two sticks ( standard size ) of Dynamite. It just releases it in a period of about an hour ( at 25 A ) ... vs the pico seconds or milliseconds of a TNT explosino.

DingusMcGee

10 kW
Dogdipstick,

You are lousy at math to say the stored lithium energy density has the same energy density as TNT. A 12Ah HobbyKING lipo pouch weights some 8 oz.

You are off by a factor of 6 on your statement,”lithium certainly has a TNT equivalent energy output.”

You advice, “don’t do that with a HobbyKING cell”, is a bit to late and now known to be worthless.

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DogDipstick

100 kW
Dogdipstick,

You are lousy at math to say the stored lithium energy density has the same energy density as TNT. A 12Ah HobbyKING lipo pouch weights some 8 oz.

You are off by a factor of 6 on your statement,”lithium certainly has a TNT equivalent energy output.”

You advice, “don’t do that with a HobbyKING cell”, is a bit to late and now known to be worthless.

I am actually quite excellent with math.

Tangents, Cosines, and Sine functions come quite naturally to me. Semi-empiric quantum theory and shit. Geometry and physics are fun. You can check it. I in fact, used a calculator for the math. Above.

It is correct.

​

Now. No where did I say that lithium battery stored energy " has the same energy density as TNT"

I said..... it has..... what is called a " TNT EQ"

...(
This is an energy storage term. )

It is not the " SAME" energy density as TNT. I did not state that. If this is what you read, you must take grammar and reading lessons. If this is what you took as the information of my post, i suggest you question everything you read as ... perhaps misread. Not the fault of the author, but of the reader.

I said:
" Lithium certainly has a TNT equivalent energy output."
( SIC QUOTE)

The " TNT eq" is not congruent to the word "" same".

"Same" and " the TNT equivalent" is not ... the same thing.

It is an easy way of comparin the watt hours in a lithium pack to the enrgy of a mass of TNT. ( dynamite).

TNT equivalent is a convention for expressing energy,... and is a term used in engineering explosives. No where did I say it has the " same " energy as TNT. I said it has a TNT EQ number attached to it that is very well defined.

Historical derivation of the value​

Alternative values for TNT equivalency can be calculated according to which property is being compared and when in the two detonation processes the values are measured.[5][6][7][8]

Where for example the comparison is by energy yield, an explosive's energy is normally expressed for chemical purposes as the thermodynamic work produced by its detonation. For TNT this has been accurately measured as 4686 J/g from a large sample of air blast experiments, and theoretically calculated to be 4853 J/g.[9]

The ton of TNT is a unit of energy defined by that convention to be 4.184 gigajoules (1 gigacalorie),[1]

DogDipstick

100 kW
Dogdipstick,

You are off by a factor of 6 on your statement,”lithium certainly has a TNT equivalent energy output.”

known to be worthless.

1.162 watt hours in a gram of TNT.
 gram of TNT g microton of TNT μt 4.184×103 J or 4.184 kilojoules 1.162 Wh 46.55 pg
 kilogram of TNT kg milliton of TNT mt 4.184×106 J or 4.184 megajoules 1.162 kWh 46.55 ng

1,162 watt hours in a kG of TNT.
My ebike holds 1,800wH.

So you can do the math now ( since well, math) As to the " TNT Equivalent" of my ebike pack.

Even though its is ... 26lbs... 11.7934kG....

.......it is equal to about 1.549053356282272 kG of TNT. (3.395119 lbs.) in STORED ENERGY.

Now, yes, 1.54kG =/= 11.79kG.... ( =/= means " is not equal to") ( meaning the "mass " of each is not "equal")

BUT...

THE stored ENERGY (Si unit watt hours) of my ( 11.8kG) ebike pack.... and 1.54kG of TNT... are equal.

( equal means being the same in quantity, size, degree, or value.)

On my bike. In energy stored. Si unit " watt hour".

The 11 kilograms of my lithium ebike battery.. holds.. about the same energy of 1.54kG of TNT. This is what I am saying.

No where did I way it is the same. I said it has what is called a " TNT equivalence " and this is a common term in firearm and explosive manufacture. When comparing stored energy and the rates that which surrond them.

I love " rate" math.

Rate (mathematics) - Wikipedia

"Calculus."

...It has two major branches, differential calculus and integral calculus; the former concerns instantaneous rates of change, and the slopes of curves, while the latter concerns accumulation of quantities, and areas under or between curves. These two branches are related to each other by the fundamental theorem of calculus, and they make use of the fundamental notions of convergence of infinite sequences and infinite series to a well-defined limit.[1]

In mathematics education, calculus denotes courses of elementary mathematical analysis, which are mainly devoted to the study of functions and limits. The word calculus is Latin for "small pebble" (the diminutive of calx, meaning "stone")....

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DingusMcGee

10 kW
Dogdipstick,

Your methods of energy comparisons have little place in physics/engineering. A mosquito by your simplistic comparison /thinking could also be said to have the same energy as an H-bomb —it would be a very small H-bomb. But its great to see your are trying to be all you can be.

11/1.54 =7.1429 > 6

Not even close.

Yes a mosquito could have the same energy as a universe - it would be a small place.

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DogDipstick

100 kW
Dogdipstick,
Your methods of energy comparisons have little place in physics/engineering.
Oh shyut the fo ok up.

......it is equal to about 1.549053356282272 kG of TNT. (3.395119 lbs.) in STORED ENERGY. The energy stored in the pack I ride every day and will ride for the next ten years.

They do explode. Get the fuk outta her. With the violence and a velocity of an explosive.

There is an energy equivalence to TNT well enumerated in engineering. Including the stored energy of a lithium cell.

Mass aint nothing doing with it.

I'm sorry. I get pissed off when someone tells me that my statement has no value to an engineering, or physics, discussion. When it certainly does.

Watch this vid, from 45 sec.. ( its short, 3 min) ... Then tell me with a straight face that this lithium cell did not explode ( DETONATE) with a flame front propagation velocity.

(I do know a thing or two about flame front propagation velocity. It has alot to do with the cooling of charge, and or, the formation of NOX.. in the scrubber design. That damn combustion efficiency. Is important. Is an inherent part of what our company does. ) ( did study it) ( do know it) ( have read a few .. old books.. on the subject.. and the math involved)

"The movement of a flame is defined relative to a specific coordinate system. For coordinates centered in the flame, the velocity at which unburned gases move through the combustion zone in the direction normal to the flame front is defined as the flame velocity." "For the obtained temperature T ( n + 1 ) ( k ) ( x ) the subsequent value of flame propagation velocity is calculated from integral (10): m ( k + 1 ) = ∫ − ∞ ∞ ρ ( T ( n + 1 ) ( k ) ) W ( T ( n + 1 ) ( k ) ) d x ."

The ton of TNT is a unit of energy defined by that convention to be 4.184 gigajoules.

This number is well known, and used all over the world for, comparison, son.
It aint my method. i didn't make it up. Its well known. In Physics and Engineering. Certainly has its place. IDKY you think its ... " mine".

Its eq. to frocking 3.39 lbs of dynamite on my bike. That aint no frocking mosquito. YOU go light off 3 lbs of dynamite, holding it in your hand, and tell me again its " insignificant and inconsequential and of little or no physics or engineering value"...

Mass =/= Weight.

Reference:

TNT equivalent is a convention for expressing energy, typically used to describe the energy released in an explosion. This is a " conventional" expression.

What does conventional mean in a sentence?

1. always used before a noun. a : used and accepted by most people : usual or traditional. The number sign is the conventional symbol for labeling something measured in pounds.

Please dont tell me my statements " have little place in engineering"...

We built the goddamn nuclear programs for some of the first-world counties on the globe. Wrote nuclear regulatory safety codes. Most probably have been in the local powerplant, that is lighting up the computer you are looking at right now. Company I work for every day. Certified to engineer in the United States. Registered, regulated, paid for, and taxed.

Please. Do not tell me my statements " have little place in engineering"... You are incorrect there. I aint just making shit up for fun here.

Your ebike pack can be directly compared, conventionally, to the energy that which a TNT explosion might have. The number might surprise you. No where near " a mosquito vs the universe" in scale. It is Its 3.4lbs of dynamite on my bike.

One watt hour isnt insignifigant.. one volt isnt insignifigant.. and one amp is not insignifigant.. Just like one BTU isn't insignificant...and... and.. the direct comparison of a lithium cell's stored enrgy to TNT's stored energy..... is not insignifigant. In my opinion.

It isn't insignificant. In my opinion. This is my opinion. Sorry.

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DingusMcGee

10 kW
You are internet search genius, and are quite good at quoting a disarray of meaningless facts, but you do not seem to have any clue of shock wave speed — the measure is critical to determining if a rapid volume/change of state in some material is worthy of using it for blowing things apart.

I do not ride my ebike during[over] charging, so the cute little video you post of a so called “lithium explosion” is of little value to me.

We do not use lithium batteries for bombs nor explosives.. Get a clue dude? It has too slow of a shock wave speed to destroy much — maybe separate a plastic container by burning it in half quickly.

My shotgun lithium battery test was done to see how one accident scenario might play out if I punctured a cell while riding.

A gallon of gasoline @ 6.4 lbs under the proper atmospheric dispersion has far more destructive power than that much charged lithium overheating in your so called lithium explosion.

Please, post up more mosquito comparisons.

They are entertaining.

Do take the time to learn what a rapid jump [discontinuity] in boundary condition means.

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DingusMcGee

10 kW
Nicobie,

It seems there is at least one overcharged cell in this discussion besides what can be seen in the video? The ebike battery relevancy from the posted video which is about a-to-be-highly-overcharged-lipo4-battery-pack [energy added] popping its bags is moot. This insightful lacking video is comparable to showing how a microwave can “explode” popcorn.

Is this statement shown below posted by Dogdipstick above a threat?

Dogdipstick, “Get the fuk outta her. With the violence and a velocity of an explosive.”

The useful bit of insight from what is displayed here is that some souls can explode when challenged about the relevancy
of the input they offer. Maybe we could start a TNT reaction score from a posters history of violent explosions?

Or should some posters be put on “balance charge” until normalized ?

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DogDipstick

100 kW
A gallon of gasoline @ 6.4 lbs under the proper atmospheric dispersion has far more destructive power than that much charged lithium overheating in your so called lithium explosion.
YOU STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT A TNT EQ. NUMBER IS, OR ITS VALUE, NOR THE SIGNIFIGANCE OF THIS VALUE .

A gallon of gas has a TNT equivalent of many more sticks of dynamite in its 6.4 lbs.

A TNT equivalence of 57.9827 lbs. Equal to 57 lbs of TNT is a gallon of gas . Get the fak outta here with the comparison.

33.7 kilowatt hours. In a gallon of gasoline. 5.26 kWh per pound.

That is simple goddamn math.

Every energy storage has a TNT equivalence number.

Pound for pound Gasoline holds more energy than TNT. Why are we comparing greater equivalencies. No shit it holds alot of energy. Thats why they fly jets with petroleum fuels.
1 ton of TNT (tn)
Equals : 1,162,222.22 watt hours (Wh).
1,162 watt hours in a kG of TNT.

Maybe you are seeing a pattern in the math.

Well, probably not, knowing your propensity.... toward a (your) lack of IQ and or traditional schooling.

That vid was an overcharged 5aH ScIB cell.

You know what that is, right?

You can count the watt hours in that cell with that information, and see how many watt hours were released in that explosion ( math would be required tho and this might be a challenge for you).

Sounded like a 12g when it went off.

pro·pen·si·ty
pro·pen·si·ty

noun
noun: propensity; plural noun: propensities

an inclination or natural tendency to behave in a particular way.

The vid we linked? Oh dont worry the nail testing is coming next. That power supply was destroyed in that explosion. Wanna see the after pics? Power supply was violently blown apart.

Lol. Go hold three pounds of TNT in your hand and tell me its not significant.. and...

I'll then try to tell you never to worry about charging your ebike, it wont start a fire. It will never overcharge, there is no such thing as regen, or electrical faults. There isnt a TNT eq in lithium energy storage and all you points are (SIC) "mote". I'll go shoot a cell with a 12ga and post about it like it was something cool, then try to tell the mods that you are a dick who needs to be ... "put on “balance charge” until normalized ".... whatever the fo ok that means.

?

Good luck with that.

Dingus. Get the fuk outta her. With the violence and a velocity of an explosive.

There is an energy equivalence to TNT well enumerated in engineering. Including the stored energy of a lithium cell.

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DingusMcGee

10 kW
Sorry for the title change but the many irrelevant additions that the clueless manic Dogsicklips has posted make this thread into something that might be suitable for the theme Life During Wartime[?] and yes, I ain’t got it time for that Now. Give me a new Metric Tensor with La Grangian Coordinates to Navigate this Differential Geometry?

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