drummerian
100 W
o00scorpion00o said:
Pretty sure I asked if it was the new type in an email to cellman prior to my order. Not worried if it works to be honest, it isn't planned to be a powerful offroader bike...just a commuter aid :/
MAC motor worries
- Thread starter drummerian
- Start date
Pretty sure I asked if it was the new type in an email to cellman prior to my order. Not worried if it works to be honest, it isn't planned to be a powerful offroader bike...just a commuter aid :/
drummerian
100 W
Spicerack said:
No rear brake on the trike yet to achieve this. The clutch is not slipping. I have taken the 'old' one out as it was jammed closed in both directions
The whining issue (to me) is almost certainly a hall issue. Based on both testing the halls outputs as well as testing the motor in the frame (it pulses round a bit on thrrotle then stops, sometimes it wont start again...i would assume this is where the hall that is broken is the one that is being relied upon for motor position info)
drummerian
100 W
Ordered some Honeywell SS411a's just in case, cheap enough that I can always use them in another project if they aren't correct. Now, if I do have to change the halls, how do you possibly go about lining them back up!
Spicerack
10 kW
There are sometimes slots machined in the laminations so they will only fit there. I think from memory the halls are inserted between lamination fingers on the MAC but take photos and you should be fine. Make sure you fit them the right way round- easy enough to copy from the way there are right now.
Edit: This is from my repair thread:
The halls pcb comes off pretty easily. Use a very small gas torch to cook the epoxy coat which will then peel off. Desoldered, bit more heat to soften the epoxy holding the halls in and they're out too.
In with the new
Yes the crusty looking cap will be getting replaced!
Ready for soldering and epoxying everything together.
When you take the old ones out, quite often they come out cleanly leaving a perfect sized slot to insert the new one with a little bit of epoxy.
One more thing: the magnet can is a super strong magnetic fit on the windings. Use thick gloves and you'll have to bang it off. Remove the ali retaining ring on the windings (the one with ?6 screws), remove the big circlip behind it, replace the ali retainer then sharply bang the non wire end of the axle on a block of wood whilst holding the magnet can. May take a few goes and takes a bit of power to get it off. If it's really easy, you've cooked your motor and the magnets have demagnetized (no need to ask me how I know). Or if you want to be all professional and stuff, you could use a proper puller...
Edit: This is from my repair thread:
The halls pcb comes off pretty easily. Use a very small gas torch to cook the epoxy coat which will then peel off. Desoldered, bit more heat to soften the epoxy holding the halls in and they're out too.
In with the new
Yes the crusty looking cap will be getting replaced!
Ready for soldering and epoxying everything together.
When you take the old ones out, quite often they come out cleanly leaving a perfect sized slot to insert the new one with a little bit of epoxy.
One more thing: the magnet can is a super strong magnetic fit on the windings. Use thick gloves and you'll have to bang it off. Remove the ali retaining ring on the windings (the one with ?6 screws), remove the big circlip behind it, replace the ali retainer then sharply bang the non wire end of the axle on a block of wood whilst holding the magnet can. May take a few goes and takes a bit of power to get it off. If it's really easy, you've cooked your motor and the magnets have demagnetized (no need to ask me how I know). Or if you want to be all professional and stuff, you could use a proper puller...
drummerian
100 W
Thanks for all the advice.
I will have a poke around tonight, I WILL be using a proper puller. NO chance at all I have cooked the motor, it hasn't done any miles and wasn't even warm to touch!
I will have a poke around tonight, I WILL be using a proper puller. NO chance at all I have cooked the motor, it hasn't done any miles and wasn't even warm to touch!
dnmun
1 PW
then your hall sensors are not bad. you need to test them first. it is easiest to test them while the motor is intact and connected to the controller.
drummerian
100 W
dnmun said:
Two of them are good according to my multimeter, just one is bad.
dnmun
1 PW
and how does a meter tell you they are bad?
drummerian
100 W
dnmun said:
One of the hall sensor outputs (green) remains constantly high when spinning the motor around. Other two behave as I would expect and pulse to GND as I spin the motor slowly by hand.
dnmun
1 PW
so you have 5V and ground to the hall sensor IC? but no resistor inline to measure the voltage drop?
drummerian
100 W
Can confirm that I have the 5v and gnd connections right up to the hall sensor itself. With the controller connected I expect to see the voltage pulledup to 5v on the output and then see the hall sensor pull its output to gnd when the magnet passes. I am currently only seeing the 5v pullup.
Please correct me if I am wrong
Please correct me if I am wrong
mr.electric
10 kW
Any chance your controller has a reverse motor direction jumper that fell off. That would make your motor spin in reverse and sound like a broken clutch.
You can test your halls with a few aa batteries and an led. The led will blink when you spin the wheel backwards. Power the halls with 5 or 6 volts then put the led between output and ground of the halls one at a time, spin the wheel backwards and watch the led blink. A resistor in line with the led will make it safe to test with reckless abandon.
In my experience repairing ebikes, you can test a motor easily. Controller is easiest to test by replacing with a known good unit.
You can test your halls with a few aa batteries and an led. The led will blink when you spin the wheel backwards. Power the halls with 5 or 6 volts then put the led between output and ground of the halls one at a time, spin the wheel backwards and watch the led blink. A resistor in line with the led will make it safe to test with reckless abandon.
In my experience repairing ebikes, you can test a motor easily. Controller is easiest to test by replacing with a known good unit.
mr.electric
10 kW
Once you get the issue ironed out expect to kill your motor with that huge controller. The wires coming out of the motor will melt together in the first mile at 72 volts 40 amps.
drummerian
100 W
I don't have a spare controller so that isn't an easy option im afraid
Not sure about this. I definitely have 2 problems at work here. The first was the broken clutch (stuck closed so wouldn't have created any 'problem' but still not ideal). Andd the hall problem. I tested the halls using a psu to proved 5v forward, although I did not have an external pullup (will do this tonight), it was clear that the green hall (my suspected problem) was giving different results to the other two :/
Not sure about this. I definitely have 2 problems at work here. The first was the broken clutch (stuck closed so wouldn't have created any 'problem' but still not ideal). Andd the hall problem. I tested the halls using a psu to proved 5v forward, although I did not have an external pullup (will do this tonight), it was clear that the green hall (my suspected problem) was giving different results to the other two :/
drummerian
100 W
mr.electric said:
I'm not running at 72volts. I am also pretty sure you can limit the amps in the controller making it run more like a smaller controller.
As mentioned above. I purchased the more powerful controller to future proof my builds just in case the speed bug bites. Perhaps ebike kit in the UK isn't as cheap and readily available as it is in the USA?
drummerian
100 W
drummerian said:
From Cellman email:
'The new type clutch have only been available in limited quantity so far, they need the gears to be slightly modified to allow clearance. I am not quite sure when the new version will be replacing the existing type, but it shouldn’t be too long.'
So my replacement is also the older type as he told me when i asked
Still should be ok though for just a commuter.
dnmun
1 PW
drummerian said:I don't have a spare controller so that isn't an easy option im afraid
Not sure about this. I definitely have 2 problems at work here. The first was the broken clutch (stuck closed so wouldn't have created any 'problem' but still not ideal). Andd the hall problem. I tested the halls using a psu to proved 5v forward, although I did not have an external pullup (will do this tonight), it was clear that the green hall (my suspected problem) was giving different results to the other two :/
it is normal to have two halls turned on and one off, but sounds like you do have one that is shorted if it is 0V even when the hub magnets pass by. but they can fail and not sink enuff current to pull the resistor down so using the controller is sure to identify it if it is a problem to the processor.
but with no heat or mileage then it would have to have been damaged by shorting the 5V to the signal line or the phase voltage to the signal line, which is the most common in a twist off.
mr.electric
10 kW
Are the wires coming out of the axle tube damaged? It should run with very choppy power if there is only one dead hall sensor. 48 v at 40 amps should be ok for test drives without instantly killing the motor. Maybe the controller is fried.
You may need to get some extra parts for the sake of testing/ future repairs. The whole thing is unusual. Normally the clutch would take numerous rides to fail and the hall would get fried after a serious overheat or wires being shorted at the edge of the axle tube.
If I were you I would test the motor - done
Install a tester controller
Then trouble shoot wiring faults.
The Chinese plugs between all the components have surely consumed hours and hours of my time troubleshooting. Loose pins pushed back in the plug housing, broken wires right at the edge of the pin, pins crimped over wires where the insulation was never removed to expose the wire, mis matched wires into plugs. It only takes like 5lbs of tug to yank the plugs loose ,like the edge of your shoe grazing a wire when you pedal.
You may need to get some extra parts for the sake of testing/ future repairs. The whole thing is unusual. Normally the clutch would take numerous rides to fail and the hall would get fried after a serious overheat or wires being shorted at the edge of the axle tube.
If I were you I would test the motor - done
Install a tester controller
Then trouble shoot wiring faults.
The Chinese plugs between all the components have surely consumed hours and hours of my time troubleshooting. Loose pins pushed back in the plug housing, broken wires right at the edge of the pin, pins crimped over wires where the insulation was never removed to expose the wire, mis matched wires into plugs. It only takes like 5lbs of tug to yank the plugs loose ,like the edge of your shoe grazing a wire when you pedal.
drummerian
100 W
Thanks for the advice, I will ensure that all my wires are properly insulated when it eventually goes back together. Since the other halls seem ok I will try the controller with the hall sensors slightly swapped around (not to try and run, just for a multimeter test). This will allow me to fully see if it is the controller end or the motor end. For the looks of it though I suspect motor end.
New halls will arrive tomorrow. I can use my reflow station to melt the epoxy so fingers crossed :/
New halls will arrive tomorrow. I can use my reflow station to melt the epoxy so fingers crossed :/
drummerian
100 W
mr.electric said:
I will be checking the wiring out of the tube, although I have already buzzed it all out (totally).
That was my theory, I am most perplexed as to how it has happened so quickly!
I think my method of using a different hall wire on the green hall will surfice to see if it is the motor or the controller.
drummerian
100 W
So after a but more probing with the multimeter some interesting results.
Swapped the green and blue HALL wires over at the motor end. This resulted in the green hall responding correctly and the blue (now in the place that used to be occupied by green) showing the same behavior as the green previously was (stuck high).
This makes me believe that the motor is in fact fine as is the wiring to it?...There is a controller problem here?
Swapped the green and blue HALL wires over at the motor end. This resulted in the green hall responding correctly and the blue (now in the place that used to be occupied by green) showing the same behavior as the green previously was (stuck high).
This makes me believe that the motor is in fact fine as is the wiring to it?...There is a controller problem here?
dnmun
1 PW
crimped over the insulation. seen that one.
i had a Vpower pack where the main battery to controller plug had never even been crimped. the wire was just in the plug and fell out without any force.
pins so loose in the clip part of the connector they don't even make contact. yep. so many hours.
but to be fair it is not just the controllers.
i had intermittent starter problem on my honda. finally isolated it to the solenoid in a supermarket parking lot. always failed far from home.
took the starter out, check continuity on the solenoid, winding is continuous from one end to the other but the meter reading seemed better sometimes than others whether on the nut or the lug.
finally isolated it to the nut that clamps down on the lug that terminates the winding to the stud that carries the power into the starter. the nut was not tight after it had been in service for awhile so the coil had intermittent connection. tightened nut to maxo i could without breaking the plastic of the solenoid end piece, and put it back together and installed it in the car, problem solved.
i had a Vpower pack where the main battery to controller plug had never even been crimped. the wire was just in the plug and fell out without any force.
pins so loose in the clip part of the connector they don't even make contact. yep. so many hours.
but to be fair it is not just the controllers.
i had intermittent starter problem on my honda. finally isolated it to the solenoid in a supermarket parking lot. always failed far from home.
took the starter out, check continuity on the solenoid, winding is continuous from one end to the other but the meter reading seemed better sometimes than others whether on the nut or the lug.
finally isolated it to the nut that clamps down on the lug that terminates the winding to the stud that carries the power into the starter. the nut was not tight after it had been in service for awhile so the coil had intermittent connection. tightened nut to maxo i could without breaking the plastic of the solenoid end piece, and put it back together and installed it in the car, problem solved.
drummerian
100 W
Im worried this may be internal to the controller. Anyone have any ideas?
thanks all
thanks all
cal3thousand
10 MW
Test the controller with an ebike tester... (But you don't have one huh?)
Drummerien
As I said before, I think there might be a controller issue
As I mentioned, my problem ( same as yours) seems to be related to the controller??? can you try a different controller?
Mine worked with a diff controller=== perhaps try a diff controller before you take everything apart--- and then find out you broke something else??
As I said before, I think there might be a controller issue
As I mentioned, my problem ( same as yours) seems to be related to the controller??? can you try a different controller?
Mine worked with a diff controller=== perhaps try a diff controller before you take everything apart--- and then find out you broke something else??
