NEED HELP !!! Cut off when motor wheel on ground

[wilcwilc]

Riding custom ebike, 48v 2000w rear direct drive hub kit from China, 52v 28ah rear rack battery.
Traveling in rain for 3 days. Bike map app sent me down muddy dirt road. Road out 1/2 mile down. Turned around, slight upgrade, bike struggling in on muddy road. Bike cut off 100 feet from tar road. Controller very hot. I was getting error message, Motor or Controller Short Circuit Fault.
Harness casing to motor overheated and melted 4 inches away from controller connections.
I stripped harness casing to point where motor wires weren't melted. Pulled 3 melted motor wires apart. One wire pulled casing off. Repaired with electrical tape. Retaped harness casing with gorilla tape. Wires near controller were fine.
Speedometer wasn't working properly after this.
It would turn on automatically when battery turned on. Controls didn't work. Stuck on 3 setting. Tested by lifting motor off the ground. Ran fine. Got back on road. Went about 2 miles before I thought battery was shutting me down.
Battery was low at 42v.
Guy gave me a ride to motel. Charged battery.
Left next morning. Speedometer still not working. Went less than 1/4 mile before shut off.
Back to motel. Later in day after Speedometer dried out, it started working properly. Could adjust all settings with buttons.
When tested though, would still cut off after a few seconds of riding if given to much throttle.
I could turn throttle slight, on and off, on and off, and I could ride around parking lot. In room, if I lifted tire off the ground, it would do 45 mph continuously with out any cut off. I can still see moisture behind Speedometer screen. Speedometer cuts off after turning throttle to more than 5-7 mph. But not when I lift rear wheel off the ground, when more thrust is required on the ground.
Why? Please help.
Thanks for any suggestions.
I only have speedometer, throttle, battery, and motor connected to controller.
I'm on long distance journey and want to get back on the road. Rain stopped, thank God.
Mike Wiltse 813-447-7912

 

[wilcwilc]

Riding custom ebike, 48v 2000w rear direct drive hub kit from China, 52v 28ah rear rack battery.
Traveling in rain for 3 days. Bike map app sent me down muddy dirt road. Road about 1/2 mile. Road out sign. Turned around, slight upgrade, bike struggling in on muddy road. Bike cut off 100 feet from tar road. Controller very hot. I was getting error message, Motor or Controller Short Circuit Fault.
Harness casing to motor overheated and melted 4 inches away from controller connections.
I stripped harness casing to point where motor wires weren't melted. Pulled 3 melted motor wires apart. One wire pulled casing off. Repaired with electrical tape. Retaped harness casing with gorilla tape. Wires near controller were fine.
Speedometer wasn't working properly after this.
It would turn on automatically when battery turned on. Controls didn't work. Stuck on 3 setting. Tested by lifting motor off the ground. Ran fine. Got back on road. Went about 2 miles before I thought battery was shutting me down.
Battery was low at 42v.
Guy gave me a ride to motel. Charged battery.
Left next morning. Speedometer still not working. Went less than 1/4 mile before shut off.
Back to motel. Later in day after Speedometer dried out, it started working properly. Could adjust all settings with buttons.
When tested though, would still cut off after a few seconds of riding if given to much throttle.
I could turn throttle slight, on and off, on and off, and I could ride around parking lot. In room, if I lifted tire off the ground, it would do 45 mph continuously with out any cut off. I can still see moisture behind Speedometer screen. Speedometer cuts off after turning throttle to more than 5-7 mph. But not when I lift rear wheel off the ground, when more thrust is required on the ground.
Why? Please help.
Thanks for any suggestions.
I only have speedometer, throttle, battery, and motor connected to controller.
I'm on long distance journey and want to get back on the road. Rain stopped, thank God.
Mike Wiltse 813-447-7912

 

[flat tire]

If you got things hot enough to melt the harness you may need to replace the motor and / or controller.

 

[markz]

Your throttle might be bad.
https://www.ebikes.ca/learn/troubleshooting.html?SID=f049caeb0058f37b4c824081f8df98c3

Check wires coming out of motor.
Check that the windings inside the motor arent cooked.
Check that your controller is not fried. Black marks, smells something not right.

Will it work without speedometer.

 

[e-beach]

With that story, it is hard to know where to begin. I would begin by making sure that the battery is charged and balanced. I sounds like a low voltage cut off when a load is applied.

Did you disconnect the three motor phase wires and spin the wheel to see if it spins freely?

Can you run your bike without the bike computer?

 

[wilcwilc]

The battery is fully charged. When I lift wheel off the ground, the wheel spins at 45 mph., but I can only go 7 mph without it cutting out. It must be the controller. Do you agree?

 

[wilcwilc]

If I give it quick juice, it just cuts out

 

[Hwy89]

What make is the display and controller? If it is an LCD 3 or 5 display there is a way to bypass it and just use the throttle. Most likely other makes can also be bypassed.
Where are you? There may be an Endless Sphere member nearby willing to help.
I was in a similar situation last year with my wiring harness completely melted and stuck in a motel room 700 miles from my destination. I took an Uber ride to a used car lot and bought a van.

 

[AngryBob]

You should not be doing what you are doing.

Sounds like you ran too slow for too long on a high-speed wind motor in too large a wheel, most likely you have not made yourself aware on some basic things to avoid to prevent such damage.

Electrical and Gorilla tape not sufficient for long-term repair. Need thorough testing for shorted phase wires, search out how to do this, very simple, also multiple voltage tests for battery damage, describe procedure to regain function after cutout,

AND and for the love of god do not post your freaking phone number on a public message board, ever, Did you crash and hit your head or anything, first time out of the basement, what? EDIT THAT NOW.

 

[spinningmagnets]

If you continue to ride it (regardless of the weather) you will likely do more damage.

You need a cheap multimeter to get started. Where ever you bought the kit, you should order a spare throttle with the exact same connector. Carefully pry the throttle body open. It might only be made to snap together on the assembly line, so opening it up may break the housing. I'd use a dremel with a thin abrasive wheel. Rinse inside the existing throttle body with alcohol.

The wiring harness and controller may be too damaged to continue using. It may "run", but it can get much worse.

I'd recommend getting a 12fet sensorless controller with 3077 gets. If you ever fry the halls, a sensorless controller can keep your ebike running, and also verify that the motor phases still work.

Can you post pics?

 

[e-beach]

...... AND and for the love of god do not post your freaking phone number on a public message board, ever, Did you crash and hit your head or anything, first time out of the basement, what? EDIT THAT NOW.

So I gave him a call last night to make sure he was working out the problem. Turns out to be a very nice guy who is riding to help raise awareness about homelessness. He said his friend is going to come up from Florida and get him. He is in Georgia and from the sound of it, is making new friends. He felt he blew his controller so he is weighing his options on getting a new one. So anyway, he will be ok, with a lesson learned.

 

[AngryBob]

OK, so he "feels" the problem is the controller. I "feel" that there is insufficient data to reach that conclusion, I "feel" that the available data points elsewhere, and I "feel" that some very simple tests can very likely pinpoint the problem.

The suggestion to disconnect all phase wires and test for resistance to hand spinning the wheel is very important to test for short internal to the motor. The suggestion to charge battery and check for voltage level, followed by further tests after several hours, and again after significant drain, is needed to test for damage internal to the battery. Symptoms appear to match an LVC being activated. Question regarding what procedure needed to re-activate after cutoff needs an answer to help determine if LVC is sourced at controller or battery.

Also need to know rough estimate of how long a motor with a 45 mph no-load speed spent slow climbing a hill in the mud, and also the approximate speed averaged during this time period, and perhaps someone should mention the limits on such a process regarding potential to overheat.

I will note that water and electricity do not mix well, and some care needs to be taken to deal with this, most especially on an extended ride. Lots and LOTS of threads dealing with this, as with the above item, some research and study needs to be done to attain a state of reasonable reliability.

As for the homeless, approximately 80-90% of them are drunks, drug addicts, or both. Increased "awareness" is much less useful than corrective action for the addiction.

 

[flat tire]

Yeah I would be worried about the motor. He could have shorted the the windings and they are misbehaving with greater than no load current which explains why he can spin the thing unloaded.

 

[thorlancaster328]

If you've cooked it that much, everything needs to be inspected. I'd start by taking the hub motor apart to see if there are any burnt windings. If there are, you need to get a new motor, preferably a more powerful one. If the windings aren't burnt count yourself lucky and replace the wires going to the motor.

I'd also check the ESC to see if any wiring inside that has melted / burnt / corroded. Light corrosion can be cleaned off with alcohol but the controller is likely a loss if it was powered on for any significant amount of time while wet.

Finally, get a temperature sensor. I cannot stress this point enough. If you are pushing your gear you are going to blow it at some point if you cannot hear it crying in agony. If you have something that can use a thermistor like a Cycle Analyst use that. If you can't afford that, I've heard good results from people mounting barbecue thermometers inside their motors.

 

[wilcwilc]

Wheel spins freely when power is disconnected.
Battery is fine. It's presently at 57v.
It is a 2000w motor. It did not get hot like the controller did.
It won't run when speedometer is disconnected. I don't know how to bypass that.
It shuts down only during load. When wheel is lifted off ground, it runs freely.
Can only put small load on before cutoff.

 

[wilcwilc]

My speedometer tells me motor temperature. Seems to be fine when running. Only gets up to 69°F when running at 45mph. Only cuts out with load.

 

[wilcwilc]

Trying to raise a billion dollars for the homeless, not just bring awareness. Like you said, they need help with addiction.
I'm also attempting to break Guinness Book of World Records, for Longest Journey on a Motorized Bicycle.

 

[miro13car]

with cheap China kits phase power wires are protection. they just melt
or
controller just melt
no overtempt. protection whatever.
you get what you pay for.

 

[wilcwilc]

I hope your doin alright. Need a new controller. then I'm heading down the road.

 

[AngryBob]

A billion dollars and a Guinness World Record, eh? Well, for someone so seriously grounded in reality, I will try and keep this short.

See, generally, when controllers fry they usually either work erratically, or do not work at all. They do not, generally, cut off the system completely under a light load. They DO, when working correctly, cut off the system when voltage from the battery reaches a dangerously low level.
Usually, turning off and on at the controller or display will restore function. Very often, the controller is simple to open, this will cause no damage and is easily reversible, and damaged components are easily detectable by both sight and smell.

The battery itself will contain a BMS which will also cut off the system when voltage from the battery reaches a dangerously low level. If it does this under a light load, that is a strong indicator of a serious battery problem. Usually, a time delay and/or disconnection of power leads from the battery to the controller is necessary to restore function.

A battery which has been severely overloaded, as in enough to melt phase wires, will often have suffered internal connection damage such that in-depth repair or replacement is necessary. This will quite often manifest as dramatic voltage drop under any load, such drop reversing almost immediately when load is removed, such that testing the battery voltage after the event will not give any useful information. Battery is more difficult to re-assemble once covering is removed, and more easily damaged, in many cases, but can also be examined and detail tested at cell group level to determine any problems.

If you are confident in your diagnostic abilities and/or just enjoy the prospect of cruising back roads with a dozen or so roman candles going off directly under your ass, then proceed with controller replacement and go off along your merry way.

While it is certainly possible, and with a lot of needed information missing, I would rate the odds of the problem being the controller about even with you reaching your stated goals.