batteryGOLD
100 W
Check this YT conference about lithium charging methods / protocols
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9dLsDpib5Q
[youtube]P9dLsDpib5Q[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9dLsDpib5Q
[youtube]P9dLsDpib5Q[/youtube]
Pulsed Charging will speed up the charge, less heat
- Thread starter batteryGOLD
- Start date
If I understand him correctly (no guarantee of that) he seems to be suggesting that if the high current portion of charging a battery is rapidly pulsed, then the charging time can be dramatically reduced without the cells reaching 50C / 122F.
He mentions data-logging a Tesla fast super-charger, and it could go from LVC shut-down to 50% SOC in 13 minutes, and then the next chunk of range to 80% can be charged up in 15 minutes for a total of 28 minutes, from zero to 80%.
Tesla super-charging requires battery cooling, plus the owner acknowledging that the battery-life warranty is reduced. The pulsed cells were not actively cooled.
This "pulsing" is being called NLV, which is Non-Linear-Voltammetry.
He mentions data-logging a Tesla fast super-charger, and it could go from LVC shut-down to 50% SOC in 13 minutes, and then the next chunk of range to 80% can be charged up in 15 minutes for a total of 28 minutes, from zero to 80%.
Tesla super-charging requires battery cooling, plus the owner acknowledging that the battery-life warranty is reduced. The pulsed cells were not actively cooled.
This "pulsing" is being called NLV, which is Non-Linear-Voltammetry.
batteryGOLD
100 W
Thats to much information for most.. Dude talking on video explains many details, at a very knowledge level. best to watch video at YT settings x1,5 or x1,25 play speed.. as you see is confidential content..
Now someone needs to design that protocol inside a charger for ebike, escooter , trotinete and for all electric veicules..
He knows pulses are the future charging method!
if dendrites are most caused at charging process , soo charge with alternate charge/discharge pulses will avoid those dendrites build inside battery.. and if any dendrites inside battery those could be shaked way, and battery will lose age in a reverse process.. maybe unreal scenario. no one goes back in age.. should be possible to remove dendrites on lithium cells at pulsed charge currents? don't know, but at Pb batteries some high current pulses will revive batteries with dendrites blocking way..
soo if that dude at video keeps sayin that pulsed charge is a good stuff, than we trust.
how do U design a ebike/escooter charger w/ that protocol? pick up some mosfets plus IC and put some code inside to do that task plus pcb design plus logistics..
Anyway, video is very knowledge intensive, but maybe some get some conclusions.
Now someone needs to design that protocol inside a charger for ebike, escooter , trotinete and for all electric veicules..
He knows pulses are the future charging method!
if dendrites are most caused at charging process , soo charge with alternate charge/discharge pulses will avoid those dendrites build inside battery.. and if any dendrites inside battery those could be shaked way, and battery will lose age in a reverse process.. maybe unreal scenario. no one goes back in age.. should be possible to remove dendrites on lithium cells at pulsed charge currents? don't know, but at Pb batteries some high current pulses will revive batteries with dendrites blocking way..
soo if that dude at video keeps sayin that pulsed charge is a good stuff, than we trust.
how do U design a ebike/escooter charger w/ that protocol? pick up some mosfets plus IC and put some code inside to do that task plus pcb design plus logistics..
Anyway, video is very knowledge intensive, but maybe some get some conclusions.
liveforphysics
100 TW
We quantify the threshold of lithium plating by adding reference 3rd electrodes of lithium metal to the cell.
We also build cells from coated electrode foils between microscope slides and charge and discharge to observe the current density threshold of dendrite formation.
For normal bike charging power levels, say up to 0.5C charging, there's no dendrite formation at all until you reach very low temperatures, at which point pulsed charging causes gas production over steady charge at reduced levels.
We also build cells from coated electrode foils between microscope slides and charge and discharge to observe the current density threshold of dendrite formation.
For normal bike charging power levels, say up to 0.5C charging, there's no dendrite formation at all until you reach very low temperatures, at which point pulsed charging causes gas production over steady charge at reduced levels.
batteryGOLD
100 W
liveforphysics said:
I trust you Sir.
I don't know what is behind of scenes of any charger, as long as it charge it will be OK!
Luke, without revealing anything that's classified by NDA, is dendrite formation more of an issue with charge, or discharge?
Does regen erode some of the dendrite formation, extending battery safety and life?
Does regen erode some of the dendrite formation, extending battery safety and life?
liveforphysics
100 TW
spinningmagnets said:
Just charge.
Regen on a very cold battery at a high SOC% might make dendritic growth. This would be a rare corner situation though.
batteryGOLD
100 W
I think that We Don't need to worry much about charging processes as a final consumer, as long as it charges. Engineers/Scientists know what they are doin/producing and we trust! We just need to enjoy final product!
Maybe could be possible to avoid dendrites build depending on driving style profile.(theory)
Remember most EV's have regenerative braking, set it at hard level!
sooo when having a driving profile based on acceleration/deceleration (regenerative) U keep "charge and discharge" battery, leading to have charge/discharge duty cycle average w/ strong current demand/supply.
Imagine You full accelerate EV until 100km/h (in a Tesla I got aprox 850KW, its almost 1 Million Watts peak demand at full accelerating @ uphill 30degrees declive! maybe 2K Amperes..imagine if U see all electromagnetic field around car and passengers inside exposed.. electromagnetic cage. Nikolas Tesla build a metalic cage to protect from very high voltage , but in Tesla U are inside a electromagnetic cage, similar to a microoven..), anyway, this is a high discharge peak, than release accelerator, car will do very fast reduction speed due to regenerative, this way is pulse chargin battery.
Soo if U're driving in a busy city, U have acceleration/deceleration driving style, and maybe if you keep battery arround 50% SOC average level this could lead to battery life forever(theory/conspiracy).
Elon Musk says his new patented cells that he produces can last up to 100yrs for Musk new Teslas.. soo no worry about anything, just enjoy life driving!
just sayin, should be a world wide rule for all EV's. bidirectional charging/discharge available plug. to receive and supply energy to others and to houses plus whatever uses energy. share concept (and if U are crazy about money share energy at a high cost! similar petroleum dealers..), EV's are giant powerbanks on wheels sooo..
Maybe could be possible to avoid dendrites build depending on driving style profile.(theory)
Remember most EV's have regenerative braking, set it at hard level!
sooo when having a driving profile based on acceleration/deceleration (regenerative) U keep "charge and discharge" battery, leading to have charge/discharge duty cycle average w/ strong current demand/supply.
Imagine You full accelerate EV until 100km/h (in a Tesla I got aprox 850KW, its almost 1 Million Watts peak demand at full accelerating @ uphill 30degrees declive! maybe 2K Amperes..imagine if U see all electromagnetic field around car and passengers inside exposed.. electromagnetic cage. Nikolas Tesla build a metalic cage to protect from very high voltage , but in Tesla U are inside a electromagnetic cage, similar to a microoven..), anyway, this is a high discharge peak, than release accelerator, car will do very fast reduction speed due to regenerative, this way is pulse chargin battery.
Soo if U're driving in a busy city, U have acceleration/deceleration driving style, and maybe if you keep battery arround 50% SOC average level this could lead to battery life forever(theory/conspiracy).
Elon Musk says his new patented cells that he produces can last up to 100yrs for Musk new Teslas.. soo no worry about anything, just enjoy life driving!
just sayin, should be a world wide rule for all EV's. bidirectional charging/discharge available plug. to receive and supply energy to others and to houses plus whatever uses energy. share concept (and if U are crazy about money share energy at a high cost! similar petroleum dealers..), EV's are giant powerbanks on wheels sooo..
