Starter engine air turbine...

[briogio]

Hi,
I've built 1 electric bicycle so far paying attention to endless-sphere, now I want to build a powerful, tilting, tadpole trike.
I work at an aerospace company and I could literally pick up this starter motor for a song. It's surprisingly light, oil filled, quite a recent model. "Allied-Signal, starter engine air turbine, Model: ATS 50-124A ".
I will probably run this motor through a Ducati Monster 900 6 speed gearbox. I'm going to build a leaning, 3 wheel tadpole trike using Ducati 17" front wheels, brakes and 1 43mm fork leg for each of the 2 front wheels. The rear swing arm, Ohliins mono shock, 17" rear wheel and frame for the Monster at the back. Do you think I could use the Allied-Signal starter engine for this project or should I go for something else?

Thanks a lot for any feedback you can give me,
Cheers,
John

 

[spinningmagnets]

I tried Googling, all I could find is a tiny gas turbine that is used to spin-up a large gas turbine. It sounds like you are talking about an electric motor?

If it truly is a small gas turbine, that's pretty cool but kinda off-topic. If it's electric, do you have any pics, even a cell-phone camera pic would help.

 

[briogio]

I tried Googling, all I could find is a tiny gas turbine that is used to spin-up a large gas turbine. It sounds like you are talking about an electric motor?

If it truly is a small gas turbine, that's pretty cool but kinda off-topic. If it's electric, do you have any pics, even a cell-phone camera pic would help.

Yes it's definetely an electric motor, and a pretty modern one at that. We have some old starter motors, (for turbines from the 1950's), but they weigh a TON, and have no oil capacity in them. I think this is really a quality piece, (I'll try and take a picture next week), I'm just wondering whether it would work as a contantly running motor, as opposed to just short duration running like a starter does.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Without specs it's imposable to know, but logically it stands to reason that a starter motor would be a short duty cycle motor optimized for torque instead of efficiency.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Since it is oil-cooled, I don't expect you to open it up. I'm sure the case seals are quality parts, but...a factory assembly is unlikely to leak, and once it's apart and back to gether, it might drip occasionally.

That being said, what the motor-heads around here would most likely want to see are: Pull apart (with pics). Take pics of all internal components to ascertain construction style. Measure stator width and diameter, measure rotor (armature) width and diameter.

Thickness of each lamination in the stator stack. Its possible that "maybe" the Kv can be determined (RPMs per volt applied) by counting the number of wire wraps around one stator tooth, and also the diameter of that wire.

Here's a quick read that might help you understand why these questions are relevant.

http://www.electricbike.com/motor-tech-learn-the-terms-part-1/

 

[Hillhater]

Without specs it's imposable to know, but logically it stands to reason that a starter motor would be a short duty cycle motor optimized for torque instead of efficiency.

..and any motor filled with oil ( for heat dissipation presumably ?) is likely to suffer a lot of drag losses from that oil.
. something that would be perfectly acceptable for short duration, high power use, but a big fail for continuous use.
..better to find a purpose designed motor.

 

[briogio]

Spinning magnets, this starter I wouldn't not open up, even though I might get it for a song I know it's worth thousands and very precisely put together with tight tolerances that I could never put back together exactly. So either I use it or I don't, the whole "flywheel" thing appeals to me as well as "KERS" and that might be a way to use it in short bursts which is what it was built for. A motorcycle racer friend of mine pointed out that any flywheel type device would greatly influence the steering, especially on a tilting vehicle, which might just mean that I would build a regular non-tilting 3 wheeler which would be a hell of a lot easier anyway. So many possibilities, so much time.