Want to move away from Proprietary to Mainstream

[MrBurgundy]

Hello, I'm Ron. I joined this group because I need help beyond my technical abilities. I do not understand Electronics theory but I have a technical and analytical mindset so please be gentle on your detailed responses!

First off, I made a mistake and bought a Mokwheel (Proprietary) 750 watt Brushless Hub E-Bike online that has no presence in Canada and I am not getting any useful support so I need to take matters into my own hands.

My latest problem with my Display showing "Connection Error" has convinced me to try and change my Controller and Display to one with reliability, & support.

I have attached the Controller details which should explain the basic needs, however there is a Crankcase torque sensor attached as well as Headlight, Horn and Tail light/Brake light.

Just in case someone is so amazingly talanted that they might know what my current issue is, I have attached a small video link and description

New video by Ron Jones

photos.app.goo.gl

Rode bike about half mile and used PAS without any issue
Parked bike for half an hour then started another ride but unable to get operational due to "Connection Error". When connection error is briefly gone, the bike has power and motor operation then goes back to connection error. If I keep alternating brakes on and off I can keep it working for a few seconds to determine that Lights and horn and motor work properly. I have removed and inspected ALL connections from controller, hub motor and display and all are in perfect condition "Like New".

That's enough for now, looking forward to some great minds for a solution one way or another.

 

[neptronix]

We know a lot more about DIY than any of the 132,523,923 different models of random ebike which all have parts with the original manufacturer's names removed.

Luckily you have a brand name displayed at least.

There's a total of 2 threads on this forum about the controller. That means it's very rare because we are a big forum. Hopefully you can find some information here:
Search results for query: kyesang

Do you know anything about soldering? if so, you could swap to another controller, display, other electrics. If not, it's not a difficult skill to pick up, and if you get serious into building ebikes, you will be glad you learned it.

 

[MrBurgundy]

We know a lot more about DIY than any of the 132,523,923 different models of random ebike which all have parts with the original manufacturer's names removed.

Luckily you have a brand name displayed at least.

There's a total of 2 threads on this forum about the controller. That means it's very rare because we are a big forum. Hopefully you can find some information here:
Search results for query: kyesang

Do you know anything about soldering? if so, you could swap to another controller, display, other electrics. If not, it's not a difficult skill to pick up, and if you get serious into building ebikes, you will be glad you learned it.

Thank you for the reply, I do know how to solder and I have heat shrink. I guess that means there are no Plug & Pay solutions!

 

[E-HP]

My latest problem with my Display showing "Connection Error" has convinced me to try and change my Controller and Display to one with reliability, & support.

I do not recommend that you attempt to change the display and controller. You will spend more money, time, and effort than the bike is worth.
If you are having some success/response after manipulating the brake levers, then as a first step, I’d trace the wires going from the brake levers (safety cutoff switches), to the bike’s controller and disconnect them. If the bike runs, then replace the switches.

 

[MrBurgundy]

Both brake wires have quick disconnects and I tried that. The normal state must be open because the same error comes up upon power up when they are disconnected. Applying the brakes would normally disengage the motor and that is what briefly (2 sec. resumes operation of the display.

 

[E-HP]

What problems proceeded your “latest problem” ?

 

[MrBurgundy]

None. This is the first problem. No symptoms prior. The motor did make a little noise when I move the bike backwards, but that has been the case since it was new.

 

[docw009]

I believe comm errors would refer to the serial data link between the display and the controller. If you have a broken wire or loose connector, it can be simple to correct. If it's a noisy system, I suppose it could be quite problematic. It's mainly Display --- Harness--- Controller. If you eventually replace all three, it will probably go away, Won't Mokwheel customer service respond under warranty?

Tapping the brakes causes the controller to notify the display, This might poke it out of its "Comm Error" status to show a normal screen. If you are riding, the controller gets its throttle and pedal sensor input and tries to run the motor, Then the display must try do something else that results in the Comm Error again, and it shuts down the motor.

Since you have a torque sensor, the third party controller isn't a viable option. Normally with simpler ebikes, the controllers plus displays are often replaced with something that works better and is less money than paying the bike vendor markups on their units. You're probably replacing with Mokwheel parts. Not to say that you couldn't do it with off-the-shelf-parts, but it would likely be $200-300 USD.

If you're desperate, and a good tech person, you might look at the display-controller pin connections. If it's like most displays,
it can be bypassed, but only if one undertands the interface.

 

[E-HP]

Since the bike has a 2 year warranty, I’d return it since that's the easiest solution.

Even if you find a solution to work with your torque sensor, you still don't know how many more proprietary hurdles you'll need t overcome. If you're battery communicates with your controller for instance, then I'd say game over on the conversion since you might as well buy a pedal bike and start from scratch.
There are non-off-the-shelf solutions for torque sensing PAS, if flashing firmware is among your skillset in addition to your soldering skills. I think off the shelf solutions (e.g. Baserunner + Cycle Analyst) will still require some technical skills and won't be plug and play, and likely be upwards of $400 once you factor in accessories, etc.
Once you approach $2k in total cost, there are too many more capable options now in that price range, so returning the bike and buying something with that higher budget makes more sense.

 

[Chalo]

Go through the wires and plugs relentlessly until you figure out what the problem is. There's hardly anything else it could be other than a cable or plug.

 

[MrBurgundy]

Since the bike has a 2 year warranty, I’d return it since that's the easiest solution.

Even if you find a solution to work with your torque sensor, you still don't know how many more proprietary hurdles you'll need t overcome. If you're battery communicates with your controller for instance, then I'd say game over on the conversion since you might as well buy a pedal bike and start from scratch.
There are non-off-the-shelf solutions for torque sensing PAS, if flashing firmware is among your skillset in addition to your soldering skills. I think off the shelf solutions (e.g. Baserunner + Cycle Analyst) will still require some technical skills and won't be plug and play, and likely be upwards of $400 once you factor in accessories, etc.
Once you approach $2k in total cost, there are too many more capable options now in that price range, so returning the bike and buying something with that higher budget makes more sense.

If I could return the bike I would, but I was unable to return it when it was new! No one would reply or answer phone calls so i just gave up and kept the bike. Now it is a year old and I either hold my breath waiting for them to send me parts until it starts working or change out the Display, Controller and Torque sensing BB. I assume that the motor & battery should still be able to work with new gear?

 

[MrBurgundy]

Go through the wires and plugs relentlessly until you figure out what the problem is. There's hardly anything else it could be other than a cable or plug.

The Dealer replied to me and said they were shipping me a new "Code Table" also known as the Display. That was a week ago and they still haven't shipped out yet. I think they are grasping at straws and starting by sending me the cheapest components to replace. If it takes them 2 -3 weeks to send this part and it is not the solution, then I start again and wait another 2-3 weeks or longer if they do not respond to me.

 

[MrBurgundy]

I believe comm errors would refer to the serial data link between the display and the controller. If you have a broken wire or loose connector, it can be simple to correct. If it's a noisy system, I suppose it could be quite problematic. It's mainly Display --- Harness--- Controller. If you eventually replace all three, it will probably go away, Won't Mokwheel customer service respond under warranty?

Tapping the brakes causes the controller to notify the display, This might poke it out of its "Comm Error" status to show a normal screen. If you are riding, the controller gets its throttle and pedal sensor input and tries to run the motor, Then the display must try do something else that results in the Comm Error again, and it shuts down the motor.

Since you have a torque sensor, the third party controller isn't a viable option. Normally with simpler ebikes, the controllers plus displays are often replaced with something that works better and is less money than paying the bike vendor markups on their units. You're probably replacing with Mokwheel parts. Not to say that you couldn't do it with off-the-shelf-parts, but it would likely be $200-300 USD.

If you're desperate, and a good tech person, you might look at the display-controller pin connections. If it's like most displays,
it can be bypassed, but only if one undertands the interface.

Mokwheel is so slow at responding and sending parts that my two year warranty will be over by the time they get to me. If they were in Canada I would take them to small claims court

 

[E-HP]

Now it is a year old and I either hold my breath waiting for them to send me parts until it starts working or change out the Display, Controller and Torque sensing BB. I assume that the motor & battery should still be able to work with new gear?

How have you been maintaining the battery? Letting it sit for a year isn’t good. Can you measure the voltage?

 

[neptronix]

Thank you for the reply, I do know how to solder and I have heat shrink. I guess that means there are no Plug & Pay solutions!

Such things do exist in the DIY world, in the form of an ebike conversion kit. I typically like certain connectors over others so i always customize mine.

Luckily motor and battery wiring is pretty standardized, so almost every factory built ebike could be converted to use another controller and/or battery.

Programmable controllers can help you boost the speed/torque of a bike and they are nice to have instead of what's effectively a black box, documentation and programmability wise.

 

[MrBurgundy]

Battery Voltage is good.

 

[Chalo]

Battery Voltage is good.

Overall, or cell group by cell group? If one parallel cell group is out of spec, the BMS will say naw. Oftentimes, the BMS runs off of just one or two cell groups and punches them into submission during long periods of inactivity.

 

[MrBurgundy]

Such things do exist in the DIY world, in the form of an ebike conversion kit. I typically like certain connectors over others so i always customize mine.

Luckily motor and battery wiring is pretty standardized, so almost every factory built ebike could be converted to use another controller and/or battery.

Programmable controllers can help you boost the speed/torque of a bike and they are nice to have instead of what's effectively a black box, documentation and programmability wise.

I would do it if I can keep my Battery / Motor and just change out the Controller, Display and Torque Sensor. If you think that might be possible is there anything I can test or take pictures of to help determine that possibility.?

 

[neptronix]

Yeah i'm not worried about the battery or motor ( these can be rewired ), ebrakes are usually just on/off switches so those can be re-wired, torque sensor, we dunno, throttle? you could possibly rewire it.

I would suggest buying a controller with a throttle, torque sensor, and screen that match. As well as solder and shrink wrap for the surgery for the rest of the parts.

 

[MrBurgundy]

Yeah i'm not worried about the battery or motor ( these can be rewired ), ebrakes are usually just on/off switches so those can be re-wired, torque sensor, we dunno, throttle? you could possibly rewire it.

I would suggest buying a controller with a throttle, torque sensor, and screen that match. As well as solder and shrink wrap for the surgery for the rest of the parts.

Exactly what I was hoping. I'm going to pull out my torque sensor to see if it has any branding. I am still hoping that I don't have to go down this road but I want to be prepared in case I do.

 

[neptronix]

All roads eventually lead you to DIY, hehe.

 

[ARod1993]

Exactly what I was hoping. I'm going to pull out my torque sensor to see if it has any branding. I am still hoping that I don't have to go down this road but I want to be prepared in case I do.

The nice part about going down that road is that once you're done you not only have a system that you truly understand but also future projects either go a lot easier or get correspondingly more ambitious.

 

[Az.]

This is exactly the reason why I keep the distance from proprietary systems.

If I were you I would cut my losses and convert new bike with generic and tested kit.

 

[neptronix]

Well i recommend replacing essentially everything electric that isn't the battery and motor tbh.

Normally i'd recommend the baserunner, but you don't know the pole count of your motor.... not knowing that can make it difficult to tune. You'd have to disassemble the motor and count the poles to find out, and measure the gears and housing ring to find the correct setting, without knowing the model.

I don't know a good controller in the 1000w range that isn't the phaserunner/baserunner. You may want to ask around. Generally the market for ebike controllers is either low quality crap on amazon with no documentation, or kinda spendy, with great support, and high quality; not much in between.

 

[MrBurgundy]

Well i recommend replacing essentially everything electric that isn't the battery and motor tbh.

Normally i'd recommend the baserunner, but you don't know the pole count of your motor.... not knowing that can make it difficult to tune. You'd have to disassemble the motor and count the poles to find out, and measure the gears and housing ring to find the correct setting, without knowing the model.

I don't know a good controller in the 1000w range that isn't the phaserunner/baserunner. You may want to ask around. Generally the market for ebike controllers is either low quality crap on amazon with no documentation, or kinda spendy, with great support, and high quality; not much in between.

Yeah..... I cant believe that the info on these motors is not published somewhere? They have sold a ton of these Mokwheel Basalt in the US and tons of group posts about how many miles these happy owners have put on them. I'm just not one of the lucky ones I guess being Canadian and all. Go ahead.... tell me how sorry you are for me