What limits the speed of an electric Taotao scooter ?

[Marcelo1969]

I got a Taotao scooter that came with a 60V lead acid battery and a 500W motor. It has a top speed of 40km/h. The scooter feels solid and it feels that it can handle a higher speed. I have the impression that the motor actual wattage is higher.

The math is simple.
If the battery can deliver current between 10A to 20A, the wattage of the motor ranges from 600W to 1200W (W=Voltage*Current). When you look at the specs of motor kits on in China (where there is no wattage restriction) , the rated speeds for 60V kits are as follow:

1200W motor, 35A controller, max speed of 50km/h
1500W motor, 50A controller, max speed of 60km/h

I have the impression that the difference in these kits is determined by the controller capacity and the motor capacity is irrelevant, for several reasons (any thoughts):
1. It is a lot easier to customize the specs of an electronic (controller) than a mechanical/electric component (motor)
2. I doubt the manufacturers would customize specific motors for all the different combinations of voltage and current offered
3. Motors endure a much higher peak wattage than the nominal wattage

Based on the above it looks like that a new controller would have the potential to increase the max speed of my bike. Any thoughts on that? Have you guys done a similar upgrade to a similar bike? How did the max speed and mileage change? Please find attached a photo of the controller that came with the bike.

Thanks!

 

[dogman dan]

Well, I think you will find that if you buy it a more amps controller, it will whack that battery into the trash pile much quicker than the stock one. Its going to be quick at first, but then you will run out in less miles, and the stress on the lead battery will result in enough sag to where soon enough, you will be back where you started.

What I mean is if the battery sags enough under load, and it will sooner, then your wattage goes back down to what it was.

I'm not saying don't do it. you need watts to get to speed, because every kph faster greatly increases drag. So its not linear, like 500w goes 30 kph, then 1000w goes 60. I'm just saying to get where you want to be, you will need a stronger controller, plus a battery that sags a lot less than lead.

So its not a cheap thing, not so simple as just buy a bigger controller, if you want both fast, and decent distance.

Its a pretty sure thing your motor can easily stand 2000w. If its rated 500w. But anything more than 40 amps will be very hard on your battery, even lithium batteries. 60v x 40 amps would be peak 2400w.

 

[Drunkskunk]

I have the impression that the difference in these kits is determined by the controller capacity and the motor capacity is irrelevant, for several reasons (any thoughts):
1. It is a lot easier to customize the specs of an electronic (controller) than a mechanical/electric component (motor)
2. I doubt the manufacturers would customize specific motors for all the different combinations of voltage and current offered
3. Motors endure a much higher peak wattage than the nominal wattage

Don't assume this to always be true. there are plenty of ebikes out there that can't exceed the legal speed limit because the manufacturer picked a motor and voltage combo that are incapable of going faster that the designated speed.

You can check your bike easily by spinning up the motor while it is off the ground. if it can exceed 40kph, then the restriction is not the controller.
However, if the motor hits 40kph while unloaded and holds that speed, then there is some form of electronic speed limiter. That can be done through programming, or it may be an external connector.
Check your controller for a white or black wire that is connected to another same colored wire, both coming out of the box. Disconnecting those should unlimited the speed.

As Dogman said, pushing the motor harder is likely to turn your lead acid batteries into bricks. But it will be more fun.

 

[Marcelo1969]

Thanks dogman dan. My idea of getting a bigger controller is just to have a higher speed in case I need it, I am aware that I should not go at top speed for prolonged time to not damage the battery. At the same speed (let's say 30km/h) would the bigger controller take more battery capacity than the stock controller? In other words, would a bigger controller cause battery sag if I drive slowly?
Thanks again.

Well, I think you will find that if you buy it a more amps controller, it will whack that battery into the trash pile much quicker than the stock one. Its going to be quick at first, but then you will run out in less miles, and the stress on the lead battery will result in enough sag to where soon enough, you will be back where you started.

What I mean is if the battery sags enough under load, and it will sooner, then your wattage goes back down to what it was.

I'm not saying don't do it. you need watts to get to speed, because every kph faster greatly increases drag. So its not linear, like 500w goes 30 kph, then 1000w goes 60. I'm just saying to get where you want to be, you will need a stronger controller, plus a battery that sags a lot less than lead.

So its not a cheap thing, not so simple as just buy a bigger controller, if you want both fast, and decent distance.

Its a pretty sure thing your motor can easily stand 2000w. If its rated 500w. But anything more than 40 amps will be very hard on your battery, even lithium batteries. 60v x 40 amps would be peak 2400w.

 

[Marcelo1969]

Thanks drunkskunk. I already disconnected the black and white wire that limits the speed. With this wire connected, top speed was 20km/h.

I have the impression that the difference in these kits is determined by the controller capacity and the motor capacity is irrelevant, for several reasons (any thoughts):
1. It is a lot easier to customize the specs of an electronic (controller) than a mechanical/electric component (motor)
2. I doubt the manufacturers would customize specific motors for all the different combinations of voltage and current offered
3. Motors endure a much higher peak wattage than the nominal wattage

Don't assume this to always be true. there are plenty of ebikes out there that can't exceed the legal speed limit because the manufacturer picked a motor and voltage combo that are incapable of going faster that the designated speed.

You can check your bike easily by spinning up the motor while it is off the ground. if it can exceed 40kph, then the restriction is not the controller.
However, if the motor hits 40kph while unloaded and holds that speed, then there is some form of electronic speed limiter. That can be done through programming, or it may be an external connector.
Check your controller for a white or black wire that is connected to another same colored wire, both coming out of the box. Disconnecting those should unlimited the speed.

As Dogman said, pushing the motor harder is likely to turn your lead acid batteries into bricks. But it will be more fun.

 

[Dauntless]

Building on what the Dogman is trying to tell you, until you hit 1000w, you're not going to care about a little increase in power. So I have the scooter bigger than that one and it was only 500w. Somehow they burned it up, The batteries AND the motor/controller. Wish I knew the story on that. I think it needs to be 1500w and so does yours.

So ask yourself: Is it a 500w motor you can overclock to 1000w, or is it a 250w they've ALREADY overclocked to 500w? I look for 10" hubs that look like they'll fit and they're 250w. It may or may not have enough to offer. The battery isn't the only thing that might brick.

It looks like a nice scooter, I know you want to try. If you want to put a QS on there, that's disc brake so there's a problem to solve, as well as it might be too wide. So I guess you have to stick with your hub that probably won't take much. this could prove tricky. . . .

https://www.qsmotor.com/product/10inch-1500w-scooter-motor/

 

[dogman dan]

If you add more power to get just a bit more speed, the tendency is that you don't ride so slow as you start up, and that's the part that hammers your batteries.

But yes, with self control not really possible for many, you can put a higher amps controller on it, but throttle easy and still be easy on your battery.

 

[Marcelo1969]

Thanks for sharing your story, Dauntless. May I ask how yours burned up?
I guess I need to find out more about the motor of my scooter, unfortunately there is not much info from the manufacturer.
However the outside of my motor looks exactly like the QS. Mine also has a rear disc brake.
I attached a photo of my Taotao 806, in case any of you guys have more knowledge about this scooter motor that you want to share with me.
Thanks.

Building on what the Dogman is trying to tell you, until you hit 1000w, you're not going to care about a little increase in power. So I have the scooter bigger than that one and it was only 500w. Somehow they burned it up, The batteries AND the motor/controller. Wish I knew the story on that. I think it needs to be 1500w and so does yours.

So ask yourself: Is it a 500w motor you can overclock to 1000w, or is it a 250w they've ALREADY overclocked to 500w? I look for 10" hubs that look like they'll fit and they're 250w. It may or may not have enough to offer. The battery isn't the only thing that might brick.

It looks like a nice scooter, I know you want to try. If you want to put a QS on there, that's disc brake so there's a problem to solve, as well as it might be too wide. So I guess you have to stick with your hub that probably won't take much. this could prove tricky. . . .

https://www.qsmotor.com/product/10inch-1500w-scooter-motor/

 

[Dauntless]

Thanks for sharing your story, Dauntless. May I ask how yours burned up?

My point is I wish I knew. I paid $100 or less, the batteries were melted the motor will twitch but not really accelerate, didn'tcomeiwth the charger which may have also fried. I wonder about the possibility that all sorts of experiments were performed and it simply paid the price.

This hub is considerably larger than the hub on my Voy Electra, which is only 250w and I didn't think could handle additional power. Guess which hub yours resembles. I just can't find real information on yours online.

 

[2Phast2Delirious]

Hello, I recently purchased a TaoTao 501 (new model). Several things I discovered when fiddling with it. It may be comparable.

The motor and controller are actually rated for 800 watts each at 48 to 60 volts. No more speed governor, but now comes with connectors for 350w, 500w, and 800w modes. It now has a "smart/learning/intelligent wires". The "high-brake switch" is connected to the throttle's mysterious fourth wire. I also "buttered/soldered" my shunt for torque as well - easiest and best performance mod you can do. I used to reach my top speed in around 13 seconds, but now it only takes me 8 seconds!

The "New Model" 501 controller can run @ 72V because it contains 100v capacitors. I'm not sure with the other models.

+25 mph at 48 volts (Lithium 20ah 1500w)
+30 mph at 52 volts (lithium 18ah 1800w)

215lbs rider

I hope this helps