New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.

New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby GGoodrum » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:15 pm

As many here are aware, Bob and I have been working on a Charger Management System (CMS) as an external board/unit that would sit between the output of a standard SLA charger, or a regulated power supply, and the pack, connected to the latter via a special 18-pin plug. The reason for splitting off the CMS function from being resident in the pack was because we wanted to use fairly high power shunt regulators on each channel, in order to ensure that each cell can get a 100% charge, at its own pace. Once Bob actually prototyped and tested the CMS circuits, it became clear that the heat was much more manageable and by simply throttling back the charge current a bit, once the cells hit the cutoff (i.e. -- 3.65V) in the final phase of the charge, the heatsink requirements were drastically reduced. Now all we need is a simple plate.

We then both agreed that if we could fit the LVC circuits in with the CMS channels, and stll fit within the same 3" x 6" footprint that would still mount on the front of a LiFeBatt pack, we'd end up with a full blown BMS, with features usually only found in designs used in larger EV applications. It was a bit of a chore to get it all to fit, but we finally got it. Here's what the layout looks like:

Image


In normal operation, the LVC circuits for each channel will make sure the voltage for any one cell doesn’t drop below 2.1V. When that happens, a pair of FETs will cutoff power to the negative lead. The charger is now connected directly to the BMS, using two separate wires. This can be any suitable CC/CV charger that can deliver about 3.7V x the number of cells. For a 12-cell 36V pack, that would be about 44.4V, and for 16-cells, the voltage needs to be about 59.2V. Many 36V SLA chargers typically output 44-45V and many 48V models output 59-60V, so this is fine. This can also accept any regulated DC supply that can be set to output the voltage needed (i.e. – 44.4V/59.2V…). because this design doesn’t use the CV portion of the charge profile. Instead, the shunts control the CV portion individually, and lets each cell taper the current off at its own pace.

The way this works is that a depleted pack will start charging at whatever the max current the charger/supply can deliver. Once any one cell’s voltage hits 3.65V, its shunt circuit will start bypassing whatever current the cell doesn’t need. At this point a current limiter circuit kicks in, which uses a FET to throttle back the charge current to about 2-3A (this is adjustable via a resistor, so we will set it so that the heat that needs to be dissipated can be handled by the heatsink/plate...). There is a red LED for each channel, to indicate when that channel’s shunt circuit is operating. Once all the shunts are in full bypass, which typically takes about 10-15 minutes after the first channel starts going into bypass mode, the current limit FET is turned off and the charge process stops. When this happens, there is a separate green LED that lights up, to indicate charging is complete and each cell has received a 100% charge. There is also a temperature-controlled switch that mounts to the heatsink. If the temp gets too high this switch will ground the gate on the FET, cutting off the charge current.

The plate, which mounts on the top side of the board, will serve as the front of the LiFeBatt packs. The heavy-duty shrink wrap goes just over the edge of the plate, so the circuits are protected. Two sets of wires will come through the plate, one heavy set (10-12 gauge) for the main pack leads, and a smaller set (14-16 gauge) for the charger.

Most of the existing SLA CC/CV chargers that are readily available, are limited to 3.5-4A. There are a few others, like the ZiVan NG1, that can output as much as 15-20A, but these are $500 (Patrick has them at http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com). LiFeBatt will also be coming out with some 7-8A "Speedy Chargers", but I'm not sure when those are going to be available. Also coming is a new LiFePO4-specific model from Soneil that can deliver 6A. Another option is to use any one of a number of regulated DC supplies available on ebay for very good prices. Bob found a 0-60V, 0-15A HP supply that normally would cost upwards of about $2k, but I only had to pay $125. For 12-cell/36V setups, you could also use the Mastech 5020, which is sold lots of places online. It outputs 0-50V and 0-20A. In any case, with a 10A charger and this BMS, you could recharge a fully depleted pack in just a little over an hour. With a typical 2A Chinese "duct tape" charger it takes 5 hours to fully recharge an empty 10Ah pack, and then another 10 hours to have the RC-styled balancer circuits used in the companion duct tape BMS board, bring down the voltage of the stronger cells to that of the weakest.

Bob has done a great job of not only designing a feature-rich, "big boy"-styled BMS, he was able to accomplish this using a minimum number of fairly inexpensive, readily available parts. My value-added is limited to doing the PCB layout. :) I'm not sure of the exact costs yet for this new BMS, but it will be less than what separate LVC and CMS units together would cost. Well under $100, in any case.

We will have the first boards and the parts for these by Wednesday. I'm hoping that we will be able to complete the testing by the end of next week. We will then finally start selling LiFeBatt 12-cell and 16-cell packs with this integrated BMS, by the beginning of the following week. We will also offer this BMS separately, with heatsink/plate, for those that would like to use it with other LiFePO4-based packs, duct taped, or not. :)

As soon as I get the first on together, I'll post some pics in this thread.

-- Gary
26" Townie: Crystalyte 5304; 18-FET (4110) 100V/100A; 24s3p 88V/15Ah Turnigy 20C LiPo
26" Townie: Crystalyte 5304; 7240v2; 24s 72V/10Ah PSI
20" Dahon Mariner: 9x7 9C; 18-FET 100V/100A 18s2p 67V/10Ah Zippy 25C LiPo
20" West Marine Port Runner: AF 3220-7t; HV110; S-A 3-sp hub; 12s3p 44V/15Ah Turnigy 20C LiPo
User avatar
GGoodrum
10 MW
10 MW
 
Posts: 2340
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:03 pm
Location: South Orange County, CA

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby Ypedal » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:32 pm

Sweet !

I have just the thing ready to go !

10 gauge discharge

16 gauge charge

Not duct-tape, but Armstrong floor tile ! hehe !
Attachments
48v-24ah1.JPG
48v-24ah1.JPG (46.17 KiB) Viewed 19070 times
Life is alot more fun if you don't take it too seriously !
----------------
Haulin' Ass Without Gas.
http://www.ypedal.com/Projects.htm
User avatar
Ypedal
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 6637
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Moncton NB

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby safe » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:27 pm

Excellent Posting

Not only is the title of the thread appropriate, the description provided of what you are doing is well done, the project does a great job of covering all the bases and you've even stretched out into the issue of thrid party energy sources for the charger.

If everyone starts posting this well there will be nothing left to complain about. :D


(and now that I've spent some time grappling with LVC logic processes I can appreciate the work it takes to get it right)

This should elevate the LifeBatts to a higher level in that your BMS will provide better full lifecycle performance while allowing the user to have no clue what is going on. (the way it really needs to be eventually)
User avatar
safe
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 6700
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:14 pm

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby fechter » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:49 pm

That sounds really great Gary!

The only thing that would concern me is the dissipation on the current limiting FET. I can see somebody packing that thing inside a bag where it could build up some heat. The overtemp safety is a very good idea. It might be possible to do a switching mode current limiter, but inductors tend to be expensive, so the linear approach might be most cost effective.

I'll look forward to some test results.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"
User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby recumbent » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:30 pm

Great news!

What if we wanted two 16 cell packs, one for each side of pannier pair Can we get away with one electronic circuit, CMS with a schotky (sp) wired to the pack. Seperately charging them if needed.
I realize I'd have to open the pannier when charging, but would i need two CMS boards?
Ebike in use:
LWB Recumbent bike, with Sram i-9 internal gears.
Power supply: 53V, 10 amp/hr, PSI, lifepo4 batteries.
max speed: 43 km/h (28 mph),
max range: 40 km's, no pedaling.
User avatar
recumbent
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:32 pm
Location: Okanagan valley Canada

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby Joey » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:32 pm

Sweet design Gary,

I wanted to clarify one aspect of the BMS. You mentioned that a pair of FETs shut down the negative lead when LVC is reached. Does this mean that the battery pack would simply refuse to supply current to my controller when a cell LVC condition were reached. If so, this is very good news. I was assuming that the pack BMS was going to supply a signal lead that I would connect to my controller telling the controller to stop asking for current. The former approach makes the battery pack less dependent on its external environment, but I was assuming that it would take too much circuit board real-estate (e.g. FETs) to do efficiently in the pack.

--Joey
Joey
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:34 pm
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby Arbiker501 » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:18 pm

Gary,

According to Ping . None of his packs can be ran in a series. I am gussing this new bms would allow that.

Arbiker.
Arbiker501
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:57 pm

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby Link » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:37 pm

Most excellent work :D! I'll have to snag one when I get some cash for lithium.
ಠ_ಠ
Packcycle 2.0 - Scwhinn S-Go
Do you wumbo?
My mind is an enigma. So much so that, sometimes, even I don't know what I was thinking.
User avatar
Link
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
 
Posts: 3589
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:46 pm
Location: The Roxbury

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby GGoodrum » Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:38 pm

fechter wrote:That sounds really great Gary!

The only thing that would concern me is the dissipation on the current limiting FET. I can see somebody packing that thing inside a bag where it could build up some heat. The overtemp safety is a very good idea. It might be possible to do a switching mode current limiter, but inductors tend to be expensive, so the linear approach might be most cost effective.

I'll look forward to some test results.


The current-limiting FET is also mounted to the main heat sink, so it should be okay. Bob decided to go the linear route because the same FET could used to also cut the charge current completely, when the shunts are all in full bypass. Space was at a real premium. :)

-- Gary
26" Townie: Crystalyte 5304; 18-FET (4110) 100V/100A; 24s3p 88V/15Ah Turnigy 20C LiPo
26" Townie: Crystalyte 5304; 7240v2; 24s 72V/10Ah PSI
20" Dahon Mariner: 9x7 9C; 18-FET 100V/100A 18s2p 67V/10Ah Zippy 25C LiPo
20" West Marine Port Runner: AF 3220-7t; HV110; S-A 3-sp hub; 12s3p 44V/15Ah Turnigy 20C LiPo
User avatar
GGoodrum
10 MW
10 MW
 
Posts: 2340
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:03 pm
Location: South Orange County, CA

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby GGoodrum » Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:54 pm

recumbent wrote:Great news!

What if we wanted two 16 cell packs, one for each side of pannier pair Can we get away with one electronic circuit, CMS with a schotky (sp) wired to the pack. Seperately charging them if needed.
I realize I'd have to open the pannier when charging, but would i need two CMS boards?


You can use one BMS if you connect all the cell junctions together from each pack That will parallel each cell with its "mate" in the other pack. The BMS will treat both cells as one. No need for a Schottky at all.

-- Gary
26" Townie: Crystalyte 5304; 18-FET (4110) 100V/100A; 24s3p 88V/15Ah Turnigy 20C LiPo
26" Townie: Crystalyte 5304; 7240v2; 24s 72V/10Ah PSI
20" Dahon Mariner: 9x7 9C; 18-FET 100V/100A 18s2p 67V/10Ah Zippy 25C LiPo
20" West Marine Port Runner: AF 3220-7t; HV110; S-A 3-sp hub; 12s3p 44V/15Ah Turnigy 20C LiPo
User avatar
GGoodrum
10 MW
10 MW
 
Posts: 2340
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:03 pm
Location: South Orange County, CA

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby GGoodrum » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 am

Arbiker501 wrote:Gary,

According to Ping . None of his packs can be ran in a series. I am gussing this new bms would allow that.

Arbiker.


I never understood this. I can't imagine how a BMS/pack would even know if it was connected in series with a second one. In any case, that's not the case with ours, either the BMS, or the pack. I use two 12-cell LiFeBatt packs in series with no problem.
26" Townie: Crystalyte 5304; 18-FET (4110) 100V/100A; 24s3p 88V/15Ah Turnigy 20C LiPo
26" Townie: Crystalyte 5304; 7240v2; 24s 72V/10Ah PSI
20" Dahon Mariner: 9x7 9C; 18-FET 100V/100A 18s2p 67V/10Ah Zippy 25C LiPo
20" West Marine Port Runner: AF 3220-7t; HV110; S-A 3-sp hub; 12s3p 44V/15Ah Turnigy 20C LiPo
User avatar
GGoodrum
10 MW
10 MW
 
Posts: 2340
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:03 pm
Location: South Orange County, CA

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby GGoodrum » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:29 am

Joey wrote:Sweet design Gary,

I wanted to clarify one aspect of the BMS. You mentioned that a pair of FETs shut down the negative lead when LVC is reached. Does this mean that the battery pack would simply refuse to supply current to my controller when a cell LVC condition were reached. If so, this is very good news. I was assuming that the pack BMS was going to supply a signal lead that I would connect to my controller telling the controller to stop asking for current. The former approach makes the battery pack less dependent on its external environment, but I was assuming that it would take too much circuit board real-estate (e.g. FETs) to do efficiently in the pack.

--Joey


Yes, in this design, the LVC circuits have an active cutoff, so that it can be used in a wider selection of setups. There are two high-power FETs use for this functioln, and they together are good to 100A.
26" Townie: Crystalyte 5304; 18-FET (4110) 100V/100A; 24s3p 88V/15Ah Turnigy 20C LiPo
26" Townie: Crystalyte 5304; 7240v2; 24s 72V/10Ah PSI
20" Dahon Mariner: 9x7 9C; 18-FET 100V/100A 18s2p 67V/10Ah Zippy 25C LiPo
20" West Marine Port Runner: AF 3220-7t; HV110; S-A 3-sp hub; 12s3p 44V/15Ah Turnigy 20C LiPo
User avatar
GGoodrum
10 MW
10 MW
 
Posts: 2340
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:03 pm
Location: South Orange County, CA

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby Link » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:37 am

GGoodrum wrote:
Arbiker501 wrote:Gary,

According to Ping . None of his packs can be ran in a series. I am gussing this new bms would allow that.

Arbiker.


I never understood this. I can't imagine how a BMS/pack would even know if it was connected in series with a second one. In any case, that's not the case with ours, either the BMS, or the pack. I use two 12-cell LiFeBatt packs in series with no problem.


If I remember correctly, it had to do with the MOSFETs that worked the LVC. If they weren't adequately rated for it, two packs in series would fry them.
ಠ_ಠ
Packcycle 2.0 - Scwhinn S-Go
Do you wumbo?
My mind is an enigma. So much so that, sometimes, even I don't know what I was thinking.
User avatar
Link
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
 
Posts: 3589
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:46 pm
Location: The Roxbury

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby Jozzer » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:17 am

Indeed, on the point1 lipo's the fets would fry under certain circumstances. Mainly, it was OK whilst running series untill one of the BMS's tripped (LVC or overcurrent), at which point one set of fets would die horriibly.
*KMX Trike, Puma hubmotor,24s1p A123 batteries. 3KW power. Total weight 21KG. Range 4 miles
*Aprilia RS125 with Agnimotor, Kelly 500A controller and 72v 40AH LifeBatt batteries. 80mph top speed.
*Poor Ducati is in bits, perhaps she will live again with some fresh LiPo's this summer! Anyone want a project?
*Hudson Spirit Trike, oh the fun! 2 Agni's driving the renault 5 gearbox, 96v 120AH LifeBatt pack, pulling 750A peaks batteryside.
*Mavizen TTX02 production racebike. Have to hang on tight!
User avatar
Jozzer
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1177
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:32 am
Location: Brighton UK

Re: New 16-cell Battery Management System (BMS)

Postby fechter » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:22 am

I guess the linear charge current regulator won't see a very large voltage drop if the supply voltage is in the right range, so maybe dissipation won't be a big deal.

I was thinking, however, the if the charging current was PWM'd (with NO inductor) rather than linearly limited, the average current to the cells could be controlled without the FET needing to dissipate any significant heat. I'm not sure what the response of the chemistry would be to a pulsed charging current. If the PWM frequency was high enough, the voltage on the cells would have some ripple, but only a few millivolts I'd guess. The shunt regulators should still function with the ripple.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"
User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area

Next

Return to Battery Technology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], jdcburg and 3 guests