A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.

A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby Greyhair » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:07 pm

Hello All,
This is my first post, having discovered this forum about halfway through my project. The craftsmanship and ingenuity of the folks here is stunning. After watching the many creative and well-executed solutions posted here I hesitated to share my own "non-hub drive" with such a crowd of master builders. But, here goes...

The build resulted from a challenge by my son, a former pro bicycle racer, and is purely for fun. Could I build an electric tandem based on actually pumping the pedals? Would it climb the steep hills where we live? The result of the challenge is Joules, who sits on the stoker seat and does all of the pedaling. The fun part was coming up with a drive linkage that would use human-proportional legs to pedal in a circle matching the pedal cranks. The linkage delivers force tangent to the crank circle through the whole pedal revolution. The kinematics of the result are interesting to watch. (Hope that as a newbie I can get a video to work...)

Joules1.jpg
Joules
Joules1.jpg (125.98 KiB) Viewed 13120 times

Joules2.jpg
Getting ready for the first ride
Joules2.jpg (179.59 KiB) Viewed 13572 times

Joules3.jpg
The linkages were the fun part
Joules3.jpg (111.29 KiB) Viewed 13058 times

Joules4.jpg
More linkage detail
Joules4.jpg (101.97 KiB) Viewed 13108 times

Joules5.jpg
3 stage transmission from 2400 RPM at the PMG-132 motor to about 90 RPM at the cranks
Joules5.jpg (136.47 KiB) Viewed 13105 times


you tube post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcW-VzpgcE8

I'd appreciate any comments/questions.

Regards, guys,

Carl
User avatar
Greyhair
100 µW
100 µW
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:39 pm

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby Miles » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:24 pm

:shock: Truly awesome! :D

Welcome Carl!

It's very relaxing to watch Joules in motion, almost hypnotic....
User avatar
Miles
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 10891
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:15 pm
Location: London UK

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby mud2005 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:33 pm

:shock: OMG, a true work of art!!! :mrgreen: much respect
Future's all yers ya lousy bicycle!
-Paul Newman
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
User avatar
mud2005
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: Eugene, OR

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby perbear » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:21 pm

Wow! :D
Congratulations, watching this marvel is really something that makes an engineers heart beat faster! :shock: :roll: :lol:
Superb!

Please let us know more about the story behind this mechanical wonder. Tell us more about the motivation, project planning, hours required, machining, and not least the reaction from family and friends.
User avatar
perbear
10 mW
10 mW
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:52 pm

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby HAL9000v2.0 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:30 pm

I must use this font size for the firs time.
GREAT !!!
User avatar
HAL9000v2.0
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1118
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:16 am
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby etard » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:18 pm

Dude, Carl, where have you been? That automaton is a cyclist's best friend. It would be even cooler if he sensed how much the driver was helping and shouted encouragement ( or insults) with your voice!!

Please, more details like weight, materials, and what kind of tools did you use.

Welcome to The Sphere, Non Hub Motor Drive? YES!!!
Four wheels moves the body, Two wheels moves the soul
Thanks to Justin @ http://www.ebike.ca He brings the soul to ES
User avatar
etard
10 MW
10 MW
 
Posts: 2150
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:28 pm
Location: Redlands, CA

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby 12p3phPMDC » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:14 pm

That is awesome.... :lol:

It gives me the same chills this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcR7U2tuNoY

I was up late one night just blown away by this stuff.

Thanks for posting Carl...! were you inspired by Theo Jansen?
"If you don't follow your dreams, you might as well be a vegetable." Burt Munro

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
12p3phPMDC
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby boostjuice » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:27 pm

OMG that is a head turner!!! So is Joules faster than Lance Armstrong once all the transaxle losses are taken into account?
User avatar
boostjuice
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby Timma2500 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:45 pm

Joules is absolutely fantastic! High quality work, well done Carl and welcome to ES! :D

More pics/info?

Paul :D
User avatar
Timma2500
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:12 am
Location: Western Australia

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby floatingdog » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:14 pm

Carl,

Brilliant! If that is you in the video, you are an inspiration to all of us over 40 (well maybe a little older in my case). I bet your son is awestruck and very proud!

John
floatingdog
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:46 pm
Location: Dallas, Texas

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby Grinhill » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:41 pm

WOW!!!! that brought a smile to my dial.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Beatiful work indeed.

This is definately the sort of thing that will get e-biking noticed by the general public!!!
1995 Giant Hybrid - Zeta2 with 12V 7AH SLA - removed after one year.
2006 Converted Giant to Geared Brushless Rear Hub with 24V 17AH SLA - bike stolen 2007.
2008 Hardtail MTB Disc Brake - lightweight RC/LiPo system.
Grinhill's Medium-power RC-Motor Hardtail build
The Grinhill Mk2 RC-motor drive
Grinhill III - "Supercommuter" featuring Recumpence RC drive
User avatar
Grinhill
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 541
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:40 pm
Location: Newcastle, Australia

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby spinningmagnets » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:43 am

Beautiful work ! How much does Joules weigh? You might consider looking for a sponsor (Red Bull makes it feel like you've got an extra pair of legs pedalling", etc)

The news is always looking for "fill". You might start out with a local newspaper, and that would make it easy to get noticed by a local TV news program. I have no doubt this would get picked up by the national TV news for a 30-second blurb.
User avatar
spinningmagnets
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 6965
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:27 pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby donob08 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:10 am

Carl

WOW, Kudos, very impressive. What's next?
Own a 1988 Rockhopper, Comp soon to be MY1018 powered, a 2008 Blaze recumbent, a 2008 eZip, Trailz Hybrid Electric Bike, with Ping 24V, 15 Ah battery (4,500 miles)and a 1971 Raleigh Super Course bought new, now updated. It's the same bike I love, feels even better.
donob08
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:08 pm
Location: Finger Lakes Area, Western New York State

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby bzhwindtalker » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:23 am

a lipo powered exo skeleton haha :lol:
beautiful work here !
User avatar
bzhwindtalker
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1318
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:03 pm
Location: Lyon, France

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby Ypedal » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:41 pm

amazing work !!! totally stunning !.. ( no duct tape visible gets you bonus points ! hehe )

What are you using for batteries on that perm motor ? those units are amp hungry.. :shock:

all done by yourself ? macine shop at home ? :D

Welcome to ES btw !! great to have you here !!! cheers !
ES site status page:
http://www.ypedal.com/ES/ES.htm
----------------
http://www.ypedal.com
User avatar
Ypedal
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 13783
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Moncton NB, Canada

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby Greyhair » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:35 pm

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all of the great replies to Joules so far. To answer some of your questions:

--- The build was motivated by a couple of things. One, I wanted to see if I could regain a few shop skills. The last time I had touched a mill was during Nixon's first term. Second, I was frustrated because I meet very few kids who get excited by actually building something. I wanted to show local kids that having ideas and building them is FUN! We need lots of kids to believe that, I think.

--- Joules plus the Trek tandem plus the battery/electronics box weigh about 200 pounds. Had I found you guys sooner, I could have saved quite a bit of that with Matt's (Recumpence's) drive. That concept is genius!

--- Most of Joules' body is 6061 aluminum, with load-bearing bushings for bearings and such made from 316 stainless. Bearings, shafts, urethane, screws, sprockets, chain, etc. mostly came from McMaster-Carr (a treasure for builders), with the Gates timing pulleys and belts from Grainger.

--- All of Joules was built in the basement over the course of about 4 months, plus lots of semi-idle time on other things. I used a Grizzly mill-drill and an old Jet lathe. Body shapes in 0.25 in. aluminum used a jigsaw, router plus templates (scary!) and a lot of filing.

--- Here are a couple more photos, of the electronics box innards and some of the speed-reducer. Joules uses two Ping 48V, 15AH packs with an Alltrax controller. Given the available torque, the current limiter on the controller is set to 60A to keep the bike (and me) intact.

Joules6.jpg
Electronics box with Ping batteries, contactor, controller, shunt, etc
Joules6.jpg (68.26 KiB) Viewed 3766 times

Joules7.jpg
Speed reducer and linkage detail
Joules7.jpg (55.03 KiB) Viewed 3766 times



Regards,

Carl
User avatar
Greyhair
100 µW
100 µW
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:39 pm

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby Paul.............D » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:18 pm

Hi

Stunning first class work. get it to the Tate art gallery in london 1st prize with out a doubt. With the quality of work i think we are in for suprises :D :oops:

Paul
Futuristic Ebike Build viewtopic.php?f=28&t=43347
User avatar
Paul.............D
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:25 am
Location: UK Northumberland

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby reload » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:36 pm

Awesome project!

very nice design and machining.
reload
10 mW
10 mW
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:04 am

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby Miles » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:58 am

It's amazing how quickly these things get picked up :wink:

http://bicycledesign.blogspot.com/2009/ ... toker.html
User avatar
Miles
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 10891
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:15 pm
Location: London UK

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby amberwolf » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:29 am

THIS IS AWESOME! (and I hate all caps! :lol:)

Joules, star of the new story I, Robike. :)
Got a question that isn't personal or private? Post it in the forums, don't PM it. ;)

Wiki your techy info so it doesn't get old, lost and icky:
http://endless-sphere.com/w


Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidDrive
Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"
DayGlo Avenger, MkII


House Fire Updates Thread
User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 16346
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby deecanio » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:42 am

:shock:

im truly lost for words at the craftmanship and engineering shown with "joules".simply amazing.
Welcome to ES.

D
Kona Stinky 2004
Marzocchi JNR T's 2004
72V 10ah lipo
Xlyte HS3540
Lyen 12 FET Jozz mod
User avatar
deecanio
10 MW
10 MW
 
Posts: 2315
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:55 pm
Location: UK

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby MitchJi » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:01 pm

Hi Carl,

Great job!

Greyhair wrote:Hi Guys,
--- The build was motivated by a couple of things. One, I wanted to see if I could regain a few shop skills. The last time I had touched a mill was during Nixon's first term.

Regards,

Carl


Regain a few shop skills? What were you building before? Lunar Rovers for NASA? :D
Best Wishes!

Mitch


This table compares the cost/wh and lifetime cost based on a cycle life of 500 cycles. Nissan Leaf Cells beat Ping LiFePO4 and HK LiPo hands down!

Leaf Cells, tier 1 OEM quality Lithium for roughly a similar lifetime cost as lead!

Module specs are here

Get a great deal on an EV (NEV), buy my ZENN!
"2006 ZENN NEV - Only ~2K Miles - Excellent Cond! - Only $2k"
User avatar
MitchJi
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3095
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:09 pm
Location: Marin County California

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby 317537 » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:08 pm

Art comes in many forms doesnt it.

Boy you got time and cash to spend.

Looking at your work you have plenty of skills to rely upon here.


Edit. Pictures dont always express a few words in a post. :oops:
Do you controll the mech rider with a throttle or is it off on type of setup?
Leslie
User avatar
317537
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 977
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:00 pm

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby Greyhair » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:01 pm

Per a question: I control Joules using a right side twist-grip throttle, plus a toggle switch mounted near the left hand grip so that a flick of the wrist cuts off the controller. There's also a main battery switch easily reachable down on the battery case.

I've noticed that the twist-grip method can be a little tricky to control well during acceleration surges or hard braking. Has anyone settled on a throttle control that works well but that doesn't cause sudden inrushes of breath at tricky moments?

Carl
User avatar
Greyhair
100 µW
100 µW
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:39 pm

Re: A Pedal-Pushing Drive Build

Postby mt18 » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:44 pm

Ideas?
I can see a rowing crew, with one human. A little hidden prop would put you in contention.
mt18
mt18
1 µW
1 µW
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:35 pm

Next

Return to E-Bike Non-hub Motor Drives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ahagge, ziltoid81 and 3 guests