2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

[d8veh]

I just got an Email from Yona and she says they are "working on another combination" and should ship tomorrow. This does sound like grease but I don't know. We shall see. At least Xiongda does communicate and seems to be working on improvement.
otherDoc
I think Ebikekit also has a trike controller that reverses.

When I was at the Shanghai show, a guy bought a container-load of OEM bikes with the Xiongda motors. I can imagine that there is now a lot of pressure to get the motor up to OEM standard. I'm still happy with mine. I've done about 400 very hilly miles at 20 amps. I greased it soon after I got it, and then again after about 100 miles. It seems to be settling down now, although still not as quiet as other motors.

 

[docnjoj]

I feel like I am paraphrasing the Energiser Bunny: "Still Waiting" for shipment.
otherDoc

 

[drsolly]

Mine arrived yesterday. Rims are on order now.

 

[drsolly]

Did you just order the motor? Or laced with wheel? And doesn't dhl add £8 service charge?

Just the motor. The £14 included any service charge.

 

[m52 power!]

I have purchased 2 of these motors for 700C road bike application.

First of all the motors appear very high quality, they came with sine wave controllers and they operate quietly.

I am having 1 very bad problem which even xingda cannot figure out. That is when in AUTOmatic mode the motor starts in high gear and NEVER downshifts. It doesn't matter if I'm on a hill or not it just does not work. The motor will use high and low when manually shifted from the switch just no auto. I have tried with PAS, with throttle, high grade and low grade hill, level ground, using brakes to simulate loads etc, it just never downshifts!

Xiongda has sent me 2 new batches of motor controllers and STILL it does not work. The latest batch is actually worse, it constantly switches between High and Low gear about 2 seconds apart and never gets above 17/18KPH.

They are completely stumped and so am I, is there anything you guys can think of that would cause this?

 

[docnjoj]

Hello M52. I guess this is the first report of an automatic shift problem. Since these controllers seem to have worked fine before, and the motor shifts manually, it is still usable until a fix can be found. If it didn't also shift manually, that is a disaster. You mention the newest controllers vacillating between high and low. It might be worth checking another brand of controller with a simple reverse loop. I hope our experts can help, as many of us have ordered this motor.
otherDoc

 

[panurge]

Hello
You have a KT or a Lishui controller?
Is your motor used into a 700c bike and even produced for it? or like mine is a faster motor used on a 700c?
Do you use it at 9-10s or?

- Check your tachometer
- Check your display (has XD sent you even new display or only new controllers?)
- If you start in low and than switch to Auto, it works or not?

My combo works perfectly, I only would have to better program the pas assistance, that should be possible, but something seems restricted on the KM device.

Let me know some details more, Maybe I can manage to help you in some way, since I have I think the same setup.

Cheers

 

[m52 power!]

Hello
You have a KT or a Lishui controller?
Is your motor used into a 700c bike and even produced for it? or like mine is a faster motor used on a 700c?
Do you use it at 9-10s or?

- Check your tachometer
- Check your display (has XD sent you even new display or only new controllers?)
- If you start in low and than switch to Auto, it works or not?

My combo works perfectly, I only would have to better program the pas assistance, that should be possible, but something seems restricted on the KM device.

Let me know some details more, Maybe I can manage to help you in some way, since I have I think the same setup.

Cheers

All of my controllers have been lishui.
The motors are specified for 700C wheel size when ordered.
The freewheel is only 5 speed
Reported speed on display is accurate and correct
XD has not sent me any new displays (they are LCD-3 type)
If I start up a hill in Low and switch to auto mid-hill it will continue in Low and then once at the crest of the hill auto-upshift to High. It seems that the missing function is the downshift calculation!

 

[docnjoj]

Yahoo! I just got the DHL tracking number.
otherDoc

 

[eMax]

Yahoo! I just got the DHL tracking number.
otherDoc

Jealous. Still waiting for mine, ordered 3 weeks ago. Little do they know that if this thing passes the test i may be ordering plenty more. These things are perfect for the low power Australian market.

 

[docnjoj]

Hmmmmm...........judging from the problems they are still having, ordering 1 or 2 and testing them thoroughly seems to be the way to go. I hope that they corner the market and perhaps make SRAM sweat a bit, but the QC must be right. I am very particular about noise level and have some sound engineering background. Unfortunately, add on fixes rarely work for sound attenuation. You gotta design it in to the product. We will see soon.
otherDoc

 

[panurge]

Hello,
Sorry but I haven't got perfectly the problem.....
If you start in Auto, from 0 in flat, which gear it runs?
You have problems only downshifting in auto or even up?
There is a situation in which your Automode works, actually? (up and/or down)

These are some of the situation to try, I'm sure you already did them, and if that's the case, it is anyway useful to know, since we could have a more clear Idea.

- start from dead, in Auto: it has to run in low
- start from dead in the middle of a downhill, in manual/low, if you reach 15-18kph and than switch to Auto: it has to shift up. (same as starting in auto directly)
- Approach a hill in high at sustained speed, than during the uphill, slow down under the speed limit, and switch to Auto: It has to downshift. (same as approaching the hill in Auto-High)

Anyway, I concur that easily you have a problem on the logic for the Auto-reverse, what it is strange is that you have the same issue on both motor....this could mean more likely or a part that is not compatible, or the logics that have been both preprogrammed wrongly.

So Since I have a Lishui controller coupled with a KM device that works perfectly (at least on the autoshift side) another thing should be to try with that LCD (ask XD or Lishui)

Feel free to PM about more detailed Comparisons between our similar systems!

 

[ecross]

Yahoo! I just got the DHL tracking number.
otherDoc

Jealous. Still waiting for mine, ordered 3 weeks ago. Little do they know that if this thing passes the test i may be ordering plenty more. These things are perfect for the low power Australian market.

I`m interesting for a motor into EU because I have no time for waiting so long.

BR

 

[docnjoj]

Yahoo! I just got the DHL tracking number.
otherDoc

Jealous. Still waiting for mine, ordered 3 weeks ago. Little do they know that if this thing passes the test i may be ordering plenty more. These things are perfect for the low power Australian market.

I`m interesting for a motor into EU because I have no time for waiting so long.

BR

I think the delay was in doing retrofit and things like that after the order was made. Normally they specify delivery in 10 days.
otherDoc

 

[panurge]

Yes, My order has taken a week to be ready (custom threads on one axle and 20" windings, among the firsts for them, to the other) and the shipment has been really fast (4 working days)....as never seen from Asia.

Ecross, If you'll be in Freidrichshafen this year, you could have the opportunity to try my XD.....
Of course, you are welcome to try the Astro Bike too, Exactly 3 years Ago I've ridden your powerful KMX, Have not forgotten that short ride.... :wink: Since I was pretty new to the electric world.....

 

[docnjoj]

Yahoo! I just got the DHL tracking number.
otherDoc

Jealous. Still waiting for mine, ordered 3 weeks ago. Little do they know that if this thing passes the test i may be ordering plenty more. These things are perfect for the low power Australian market.

I`m interesting for a motor into EU because I have no time for waiting so long.

BR

Mine was ordered July 21. I just got a tracking number yesterday.
otherDoc

 

[ecross]

Yes, My order has taken a week to be ready (custom threads on one axle and 20" windings, among the firsts for them, to the other) and the shipment has been really fast (4 working days)....as never seen from Asia.

Ecross, If you'll be in Freidrichshafen this year, you could have the opportunity to try my XD.....
Of course, you are welcome to try the Astro Bike too, Exactly 3 years Ago I've ridden your powerful KMX, Have not forgotten that short ride.... :wink: Since I was pretty new to the electric world.....

Hi Jules, yes I'm in Friedrichshafen this year, and maybe I have some time to test your great bikes. All my Trikes are now with good suspension, I have Steintrike WO-1 and HP Scorpion FS-26 MTB. For the faster setup I use a +10kw setup with self limited 80kmh, all 100% ok. But for really offroad and uphill I`m looking for a slower setup like this 2-gear motor set. Also the 15A to 20A level is good for light batteries. And a 10kg motor in the back is not so easy to handle downhill, but you now this all...

For the new Scorpion I'm looking for a second motor, because fist I will test a big bafang 350-500W but I have interesting to test also the 2-gear motor. I need for my 135mm back a motor with only max. 135 - 145 or 148mm wide. Disc are welcome but not necessary, because Rimbracke also installed. The Alu swing arm is bended little to 145mm no problem.

You have now big experience about to this motors and controller and I have no big motivation to spend much time into the motor sets, so maybe you can offer me a motor set with good rim 1x or better 2x crossed with 26" and later also into 20" rims. When the offer is ok, we can meet us in Friedrichshafen or I can visit you in Italy at your home. I can bring my Trike with me and we can have some fun up and downhill. I can bring my new 10S 12S and 13S Lipos/18650er cells and corepacks with me, also some strong and little charger are on my bench for testing, power range 500 - 2000Watts. What's your thinking?

 

[endlessly_ending]

Sometimes it even comes better.

Bonnie from XiongDa checked back with Lishui and they are going to make a FOC sine wave controller for me, which will be a "drop in replacemet" for the 2-speed hub standard controller (36V / 15A). That is to say, that all the wires and plugs will be the same and of course it will have automatic and manual gear change. WOW !

I hardly can await to get my hands on it.

well the Lishui FOC sine wave controller did arrive

and I have had time for some test rides and have done some measurements too.


First of all, the FOC and non-FOC you hardly can tell apart, as they both look exactly the same and do have the same wires and plugs.
One must connect the King Meter KM-5S for both of them.

To use it with throttle only is no problem, even though in the display it says "PAS". Very good !
Anytime its switched on, it starts out with the lowest assistant level (eco) which is pretty annoying for me. Sadly I was not able to enter second programming level to possibly correct that. Somthing seems to be different here, cold not figure it out nor does the KM5 "manual" apply.

When hooked up, the XiongDa runs slighty more quiet than with standard controller, but not that much as the main noise comes from the gearing. Still I like it very much.

Biggest surprise was that you have really strong torque right from the beginning. Be aware that the front wheel even on level paved roads can slip in low gear when starting at a rather upright position. WOW. This controller did have roughly +10% battery current draw to the speced 15A.
I very much like that it immediately reacts to any push of the throttle, which is not the case with the standard controller which has both a delay and ramps up at its own will.

One issue I hope can be ironed out soon, is that manual gearing does not lock neither to low nor high gear - it rather seems to take switch position as a "suggestion". Also at highest torque and lowest speed the controller seems to erratically lose sync of the hall sensors.
The white cable you see in the pix, are for programming the controllers if you order that option. As far as i can see now, its a direct dump to the ST controller via IDE, so one has to ask for an updated / custom made firmware, rather than being able to adapt any parametes or functions yourself. But anyway its very nice to have it at all.
People at XiongDa and Lishui are very responsive and its a joy and great pleasure to get in such close contact with them.

Measuring the phase current did show a clean sine (when filtering out the RF rubbish). Phase current climbs up to roughly 23A where the sine starts to get slightly deformed. (picture shows XiongDa in low gear slowed down at full throttle to roughly 10km/h in 26" wheel)

 

[endlessly_ending]

All of my controllers have been lishui.
The motors are specified for 700C wheel size when ordered.
The freewheel is only 5 speed
Reported speed on display is accurate and correct
XD has not sent me any new displays (they are LCD-3 type)
If I start up a hill in Low and switch to auto mid-hill it will continue in Low and then once at the crest of the hill auto-upshift to High. It seems that the missing function is the downshift calculation!

The LCD-3 did not work for me with the Lishui sine wave controllers (FOC and non-FOC)
It worked for some time and then switched off for whatever reason.

Hooking them up to the KM-5S, and all problems were gone. Glad I've been told that in advance so did order one together with the controllers.
Be aware that the KM-5S has very sharp edges.
I had to use a file first as to not get cut / injured accidently.
Nice display though. Reading of Watts is a welcome feature too.

But you could also have a problem with those tiny plugs just as well, I guess.

 

[docnjoj]

Yippie! Mine is in CINCINNATI. Getting closer.
otherDoc

 

[panurge]

Thanks endlessy for your report, that's really helping.
INteresting that the 2 controllers looks exactly the same....in the Lishui website, the FOC controller looks different....
As yet reported my KM device seems to have the same restricted firmware of yours...don't know if It is even due to a not full compatibility with the controller.....Also, the Manual mode issue you've reported isn't that cool....
Have you tried a PAS sensor with it? I have some issues using a cadence sensor with my lishui+KM combo....
Agreed that the problem of Member m52 is probably relate to the LCD device.....

 

[m52 power!]

After seeing a picture of a liushi controller I can confirm I DO NOT have a liushi, must be KT controller. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[endlessly_ending]

@panurge
Thanks, but sorry no, I didn't try any PAS ride, I use throttle only.
One nice thing this combo does is, that its a mixture of the throttle and the assistant level chosen. So you can kind of "limit" full throttle which may be helpful rinding in a group (or pass your bike to granny for a test ride ). On the other hand you have to choose the highest assistant level manually each time, as it wakes up with the lowest level - which might become slightly annoying in the long run. Possibly this also can get customized.

XiongDa already is in contact with Lishui (as I actually bought the controllers from XingDa not from Lishui) regarding those relatively minor issues. As said they are very responsive and try hard to do their best. Not all that common and very impressive IMO.

As for second level programming I got the impression, that its the controller's firmware that does or does not allow for altering specific settings via display.
But yes I too would like to have this option, might be they will make it accessible, lets see.
The manual I've seen is +30 pages, so its quite a bunch of parameters that can be set by the KM-5S- if implemented.

PS
from what I've read it only takes some more steam - in terms or processign power - to make a FOC sine wave controller.
As it all can be done in software, its just the difference of chosing a beefier processor which turns out - in mass market - at a diffence of a few bucks

 

[endlessly_ending]

@ m52 power!

Thanks for carifiying !

Below are the KT controllers I got from XiongDa.
The upper one is a sine wave controller (non FOC) the lower one is a standard rectangular one.
Didn't have any time to hook up the sine wave version so I can't comment at the moment if I possibly can reproduce your issues

KT's have those inferiour "bullet" plugs for the motor cable. The Lishui have attached motor cable without any plug (the thick black cable seen in my last post )

 

[docnjoj]

Here it is in all it's glory. The packing slip says "Wheelchair motor". I wonder what that means. Any way I can tell if it is actually the high speed for a 20" wheel? Start lacing tonite. The controller has an s which could be Sinewave. The screen says KT.
We shall see.
otherDoc