docnjoj
1 GW
Endlessly wrote
Unfortunately I have the latter controller/meter combo.
otherDoc
Unfortunately I have the latter controller/meter combo.
otherDoc
2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor
- Thread starter d8veh
- Start date
endlessly_ending
10 W
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- Apr 27, 2013
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docnjoj said:I'm now quite sure that I have the regular speed motor from what Yona states. Here is a picture of what xiongda is asking me to cut.
otherDoc
Thanks for sharing this picture.
Seems there was some revision of that small board.
Here is mine:
View attachment 2
Its way easier to open the motor if you prepare a simple tool like that:
docnjoj
1 GW
That is a neat tool, endlessly. Are both of the pins screws that screw into the motor?
otherDoc
Oh duh! The black "screw" is the axle! Very clever.
I'm not sure what cutting the temp sensor will do. I can't see why it would affect the motor or transmission.
otherDoc
Oh duh! The black "screw" is the axle! Very clever.
I'm not sure what cutting the temp sensor will do. I can't see why it would affect the motor or transmission.
docnjoj
1 GW
Well finally some good news. We did 17 miles yesterday and 20 today and the Xiongda worked well. On oevel ground the motor is able to find shift points better and was quite good, shifting down to low as needed. It did get confused at the end of the ride going up a short hill and trying to keep going at a left turn in a crosswalk (empty except for us). I did use the high and low buttons where I felt the motor might need some help.
The motor seems to be watt limited, to about 250 in low up a hill, and just over 500 on level ground. Maximum speeds available were 9mph in low and 16 in High gear @36volts.
Yona stated the this was the fast wind motor, so I guess these speed maximum are power limited. If any one knows how to make it a bit faster, (not with new batteries) please let me know? Also how do you get it to show motor temperature?
It really is a good little motor, and both the ride (it is half the unsprung weight of the 9C) and really very quiet for a geared motor.
I'm coming around to really like it.
otherDoc
The motor seems to be watt limited, to about 250 in low up a hill, and just over 500 on level ground. Maximum speeds available were 9mph in low and 16 in High gear @36volts.
Yona stated the this was the fast wind motor, so I guess these speed maximum are power limited. If any one knows how to make it a bit faster, (not with new batteries) please let me know? Also how do you get it to show motor temperature?
It really is a good little motor, and both the ride (it is half the unsprung weight of the 9C) and really very quiet for a geared motor.
I'm coming around to really like it.
otherDoc
cwah
100 MW
docnjoj said:
Yeah I tried the motor yesterday and it's a bit too slow for my taste. A xiondga motor with 25mph would be perfect!
docnjoj
1 GW
It may be able to be increased. I will try tomorrow to change maxspeed to over 25 km/hr. It might do something. That LCD-3 screen has a lot of stuff.
otherDoc
otherDoc
docnjoj said:
It's not power limited in low gear. You need to get the speed down to less than 4 mph for it to draw higher current. At 10 mph, it's maxed out, which means back emf = supplied emf, so no current can flow. The current with any motor depends on rpm.
More volts will make it go faster - of course!
docnjoj
1 GW
Hmmmmm............D8veh
We just came back form 20 miles and while the motor performed fine, it will not pull more than 200 watts up a 5% 1.5 mile hill in low gear. Shouldn't it hit 500 like it can in high gear? 8mph is quite slow. Oh yeah. On level ground I was able to leave it in High even for starts. no problem at all and only about 2-300 watts. It cruses around 80-100 Watts. Efficient. On our 20 mile ride it uses only about 10ah, including the giant hill.
otherDoc
We just came back form 20 miles and while the motor performed fine, it will not pull more than 200 watts up a 5% 1.5 mile hill in low gear. Shouldn't it hit 500 like it can in high gear? 8mph is quite slow. Oh yeah. On level ground I was able to leave it in High even for starts. no problem at all and only about 2-300 watts. It cruses around 80-100 Watts. Efficient. On our 20 mile ride it uses only about 10ah, including the giant hill.
otherDoc
cwah
100 MW
Cruise at 100 watt at what speed and did you pedal?
endlessly_ending
10 W
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2013
- Messages
- 82
docnjoj said:
8mph is slow, but in the other hand its not that slow for the XiongDa motor considering that its almost twice this speed what a single gear hub would see - so - is 16mph slow for a single gear hub ? Not really.
Conclusion is, as d8veh already pointed out, to push the Watts of the XiongDa in low gear, you need to up the volts.
Or slow it down even well beyond your 8mph.
docnjoj
1 GW
Always pedal and around 14 mph. Max speed is 16.cwah said:
otherDoc
docnjoj
1 GW
endlessly_ending said:
Well it looks like shunt soldering time. The power is fairly low, 200 max in Low and 500 max in high gear. That low gear only pulled about 100 watts going up the big hill! I kinda figured that the Laws of Physics prevailed, and there is no magic button to go faster, but I am reluctant to change batteries. The quickest and cheapest 44 volt is LiPo from HobbyKing, and I would rather not go there now. Time to get out the old soldering iron. I don't really want to go much faster, but I would like a bit of reserve power, maybe to 18-19mph.
otherDoc
cwah
100 MW
docnjoj said:
When you pedal it does not represent the true output of the motor. If it was 100W without pedaling then it would be really efficient lol.
Please push it to 25 mph so I'll get one too
docnjoj
1 GW
The only probable way it will go faster is with bigger wheels and higher voltage, as Endlessly and D8veh have pointed out. I'm trying the solder shunt so as to maybe gain a few amps extra. With 44 volts and 26" wheels you might get 22-23 mph. Also even though mine seems to use relatively few amps, it is a heavy setup. The trike with batteries weighs about 80 lbs. I weigh about 220. On level ground it reaches about 16 mph.
otherDoc
otherDoc
docnjoj
1 GW
The motor continues to run well but I am having difficulty programming from the screen. I push the center button and the screen comes on. Then I hold the up button till the backlight comes on. Then I hold the up and down buttons and I get flashing of the trip and total mileage but pushing the center button does nothing else and holding the 2 other buttons does not put me back into a area that I can program. What gives? I know I had P1.......... and 2 other levels when I first got it.
Thanks
otherDoc
Thanks
otherDoc
endlessly_ending
10 W
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2013
- Messages
- 82
don't switch on the backlight.
docnjoj
1 GW
Then how do I see the silly screen?
otherDoc
Eureka! It lights up as you program it. Now they need to use twisted crystals in the screen so we can view it from an angle. Never satisfied.
otherDoc
Eureka! It lights up as you program it. Now they need to use twisted crystals in the screen so we can view it from an angle. Never satisfied.
endlessly_ending
10 W
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2013
- Messages
- 82
docnjoj said:
docnjoj
1 GW
I just wanted to keep this thread alive. I have been riding our regular 20 mile routes for the last 2 weeks and can report that the 2 speed motor is running OK. I have to shift manually as it will not find the correct gear on any hill, but sometimes in automatic it works OK on level ground. The switch works fine for changing Hi to low and back. I will take the controller apart soon and provide pictures in the hopes that one of the savvy electronics gurus can perhaps recommend a way to get automatic positive shifts. The motor is still quiet but it seems I cannot get Motor Temperature from the choices on the screen. It may be that I don't have the in-motor sensor.
otherDoc
Oh yeah I soldered the shunt about half but really don't notice much difference in power.
otherDoc
Oh yeah I soldered the shunt about half but really don't notice much difference in power.
The switching is done by software. No photos will help.
You could try adding a small blob of solder to the shunt, which will make it change at a slightly higher current. It might take it out of the unstable change zone, plus you get more power. Only a small blob.
You could try adding a small blob of solder to the shunt, which will make it change at a slightly higher current. It might take it out of the unstable change zone, plus you get more power. Only a small blob.
docnjoj
1 GW
Thanks d8veh. I'll try to add a bit more solder. Shame these controllers cannot be programmed. I usually don't care, but the crispness of the buttons and the accuracy of them is night and day compared to the "automatic" function.
otherDoc
otherDoc
Jeremy harris was against soldering the shunt for a variety of reasons (http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44784#p652140 He preferred the resistor jumper method), but...since it remains a popular mod, I'd like to suggest something. (also, big Moose suggests substituting a trimpot in place of the shunt to have an "adjustable on the fly" shunt)
Its my understanding that when you add solder, it is not the volume of solder that is important so much as the length of shunt that is bypassed. The shunt is made from a rod that has a measured amount of resistance per length, and the solder is a low resistance / average-conductor.
I have read about one builder who coiled several wraps of bare copper wire around a section of the shunt, and then soldered the copper wire onto it. Then he measured the amount of max amps the controller would flow. He could then fairly precisely adjust how many amps he would get by simply adding or removing one wrap of wire, and then re-soldering.
In the pic below, John in CR has four shunts, and he is bypassing 60% of all of them (they appear to be in parallel...four small ones instead of two big ones?)
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31643
Here's a large single shunt with 1/3rd of its length bypassed:
Its my understanding that when you add solder, it is not the volume of solder that is important so much as the length of shunt that is bypassed. The shunt is made from a rod that has a measured amount of resistance per length, and the solder is a low resistance / average-conductor.
I have read about one builder who coiled several wraps of bare copper wire around a section of the shunt, and then soldered the copper wire onto it. Then he measured the amount of max amps the controller would flow. He could then fairly precisely adjust how many amps he would get by simply adding or removing one wrap of wire, and then re-soldering.
In the pic below, John in CR has four shunts, and he is bypassing 60% of all of them (they appear to be in parallel...four small ones instead of two big ones?)
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31643
Here's a large single shunt with 1/3rd of its length bypassed:
docnjoj
1 GW
Thanks S/M. I have already soldered half the shunt and may go after it with some copper wire wrap, a la John in CR. The solder doesn't seem to have done much as the build in wattmeter in the LCD-3 shows about the same readings as before I soldered the shunt. More is better, maybe. If it can kick the shift point up a bit in low gear it will serve it's purpose.
otherDoc
otherDoc
That's much too much. Don't add any more or any copper wire. adding solder to about 1/4 of the length increases the current up to 20A, which is about as far as is safe for the controller and motor. You could be as high as 24A. If you have a wattmeter, you should use it to find out what you've got, and then adjust accordingly.docnjoj said:
I've soldered the shunt on at least 30 controllers and never had a problem. Many of them already had some solder added by the factory. I'm not convinced that what Jeremy Harris said was correct, neither do I see a necessity to wrap wire around the shunt. The method of just adding a bit of solder up the leg is simple, effective and quick. I personally don't see any reason to make it more complicated.
It's always best to measure the results of what you've done with a wattmeter, which only costs a few dollars:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Digital-LCD-60V-100A-Balance-Voltage-RC-Battery-Power-Analyzer-Watt-Meter-/271336914329?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item3f2cf0bd99
Connect the wattmeter between the battery and controller. Lift the back-wheel and spin up the motor to full throttle. Keeping full-throttle, use the brake to slow the motor right down, and you'll see the maximum current. Repeat after soldering. If you go too far, you can reduce it by removing some of the solder. The thickness does have an effect. You can remove the solder by soldering upside down, so gravity causes the solder to run back onto the iron.
