2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

[panurge]

135mm or 145.6mm dropout rear or 100mm 110mm dropout front (wider for the disc versions) no mention of the shortened disc version I saw someone get on here (suited for a 5 speed) when I asked about thinner options.

the shortened disc version (exactly what I have loosed yesterday) is simply a 145mm one with the threads extended on the drive side to 137. You can do it yourself, extending even the flats if you want.
It should be needed only with alu frames.
The Wide drum brake version is perfect for 170mm fats and works fine even with disc brake using an adapter, also I have a 7 speed on it and have not measured the freewheel space precisely, but I'm pretty sure It could use even a 9speed freewheel.
you say a 24" motor at 36v @25kph...seems to me that the motor I had in the stolen Bike was faster than that, turning at about 40kph no load, but you need only to wait the deliver to exactly know what you get......like all of us.... :wink:
I can say that Bonnie has been really kind with me providing exactly what I asked for.....I had to insist a bit for both the fast motors but I've correctly and exhaustively explained my plans and they understand that those was reasonable...
I will rebuild that exact bike I think....maybe using a true 29" xc frame instead.....

 

[menvert]

you say a 24" motor at 36v @25kph...seems to me that the motor I had in the stolen Bike was faster than that, turning at about 40kph no load, but you need only to wait the deliver to exactly know what you get......like all of us.... :wink: ...

Now you have me worried... if the standard 24" is actually fast enough, it's called 25kph loaded, did your invoice say something like than? (I'll be happy if it does 32kph on a flat/slight incline)

 

[menvert]

Hey PanUrge, any idea what your MAX unloaded RPM is/was on your 24"

 

[Miles]

Hey PanUrge

No incontinence, in that sense It's Panurge! Hopefully from the Greek meaning rather than the Rabelais character

 

[menvert]

Hey PanUrge

No incontinence, in that sense It's Panurge! Hopefully from the Greek meaning rather than the Rabelais character

Just after some beers then?
I can still specify the RPM on my kit before they send it, so I was thinking about 270RPM for a 700c = about 35kph unloaded given my friends dillenger 250w does like 32 kmh easily... should be nice and powerful overall?

 

[panurge]

Both meanings, plus whatever you like to add
I've asked for a 300rpm motor first, but then we agree to start with a 280rpm. in any case looking at the old e-mail they say 35kph max speed in high...and was reluctant to speak about rpm rather than wheel's and speed.
But Never directly measured it after the deliver, if not by speed, that's what I've already posted: a bit faster than what I've expected.
It is clear that the first and primary intention of the 2speed XD is to get more torque for climbing or pulling purposes....but I'm persuaded that in a light commuter with a good rider we can start from a slightly faster motor than usual staying reliable.

 

[menvert]

Both meanings, plus whatever you like to add
I've asked for a 300rpm motor first, but then we agree to start with a 280rpm. in any case looking at the old e-mail they say 35kph max speed in high...and was reluctant to speak about rpm rather than wheel's and speed.
But Never directly measured it after the deliver, if not by speed, that's what I've already posted: a bit faster than what I've expected.
It is clear that the first and primary intention of the 2speed XD is to get more torque for climbing or pulling purposes....but I'm persuaded that in a light commuter with a good rider we can start from a slightly faster motor than usual staying reliable.

Good news then, I ended up asking for a 280RPM.
Like you say Panurge this engine is aimed at high torque, yet the best 250w single speed hub I have tried is set for 33kpm unloaded on 26" so about 265 RPM and it coasts on a flat at about 31kpm, and it performs great on hills still, (in a ligh commuter + my meager 60kg).
Given the XD has 2 gears I see it as way more useful to shift the RPM just a bit higher @ 280 so my 700c will do 35kph unloaded.
Maybe the measurements of the XD speed is at exactly 36v? so when we put in any standard battery pack it runs closer to 40v and this gives the extra rpm/speed you have noticed? Still, I'd love for XD to provide a table of 'standard' configuration stats, like the RPM of each model for which wheel type etc, I imagine they spend a bit of time emailling back and forth answering all the same questions from the likes of us... Then again maybe they are always asking us about max speed as opposed to RPM so they can set the controller to suit, so it changes gears at the right time?

 

[panurge]

Maybe the measurements of the XD speed is at exactly 36v? so when we put in any standard battery pack it runs closer to 40v and this gives the extra rpm/speed you have noticed?

Mhmm, sure you're right, they make tests at 36v constant.....but, indeed, that's why I've decided to test this motor with a small 9s Lipo pack First :wink: . All my already reported datas, if not differently specified, should be intended at 35 to 37v (well charged 9s)
Anyway I'm pretty sure your motor will be the same, It is made for the same wheel's size and you asked for the exact rpm and speed.....so you should get a slightly faster motor too^_^

 

[menvert]

I was just looking and thought I'd share a potential 3rd party controller option;

http://www.goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/Cruise%20Controller%20User%20Guide.pdf
I looked into it a bit, it's a Max 60v max 1000w controller, you'd want the optional USB programming cable to set reverse settings

It has a pin for reverse, which when shorted enables reverse (at the % of maximum as defined via software - default being 50%)

No auto shift but it would, as far as I can see be a workable manual shift controller? maybe a bit problematic if it switches instantly...

 

[endlessly_ending]

Infinion controllers also can be arranged to do reverse. No problem.
But non does the trick of auto switching gears.

@ panurge
Sorry about your bike!

 

[panurge]

Infinion controllers also can be arranged to do reverse. No problem.
But non does the trick of auto switching gears.

@ panurge
Sorry about your bike!

I'll have another soon, the fork is the only thing I haven't in stock.......
First new thing will be a 200Db alarm and a GPS tracker, It will be better than my Abus Locking.

True About INfineons, and, hopefully, via a CAV3, in the next year or 2, we will be able to get shift and autoshift for any retro-direct system in an almost OEM form ... ..isn't that true Justin?
The Retro-Direct fleet will increase rapidly :wink: ....right now we have:
SRAM
XD
Kappstein
and probably soon
BAFANG and, I bet, even some other Asian Manufacturer
JUSTIN's geared/gearless Proto, hopefully.
MILES Combo, hopefully.

Also, To do the same with an Arduino based interface and any controller that support reverse, should be quiet easy....for the right Guy...

 

[menvert]

Also, To do the same with an Arduino based interface and any controller that support reverse, should be quiet easy....for the right Guy...

Hmm Arduino would be cool... It'd be able to support things like cruise, custom gear change levels, custom presets like off-road/legal mode/congested pedestrian mode etc

I wonder how easy that'll be... might be fun (I need something to ponder while waiting for my setup to be sent)

 

[savaoaknyc]

@ panurge
Sorry about your bike![/quote]
I'll have another soon, the fork is the only thing I haven't in stock.......
First new thing will be a 200Db alarm and a GPS tracker, It will be better than my Abus Locking.

Hei panurge , any idea about good gps bicycle tracker? Need it for my pedelecs,which i am going to rent

 

[panurge]

Mostly depends from the budget....there are really cool device for professional purposes and also some company making anti-theft devices specific for bikes, but the basic cheap GPS devices would work well too if properly positioned, sealed and powered, obviously they would work only outdoor...

That seems attractive, if not for the price the headset cap version looks smart...

http://www.gpstrackthis.com/GPSTrack/Spybike.jsp
It has a moving detection, and, while armed, starts to transmit automatically when moved, stops if the bike is parked and restart whenever the bike will move again, It seems even to gives a true tracking trace rather than raw coordinates....
Maybe some smart guy here on ES would like to goes on that biz? shouldn't be a bad Idea...

An option could be even to try one of those USB android based mini-PC, with 3g and GPS integrated...
There was mini GSM phones (like an usb stick, without display and with or without built in battery) years ago, they was made for survey purposes, dunno if a similar device but based on an actual smartphone is actually available (basically an android device with all the integrated sensors, ports and slots of a smartphone, but without display and with a video output instead) but that should do the job well, and cost not so much, with many software, routines and possible features. One could set up, for instance, a routine that wake up the device, enable GPS and send position each day or week at a pre-programmed hour....or implement a movement detection as well....

 

[docnjoj]

I'll tell you guys, the newer KT controllers really work fine. They do auto-shift with little to no hunting, and are reasonably fast. Just my 2 Euro.
otherDoc

 

[mountain biker]

this was the email I got back when I asked about it. web page says high gear is 4 to 1 and low gear is 8 to 1. looks like there are some data sheets on official webpage and there is posting on here. concerning rpm and torque...basically around 40 nm of torque.
Basicly, the motor can change gears according the road condition automaticly or manually. If your area has lots of hills,
then it's a good choice.
The highest watt is 300W , 32km/h fastest, we will have more powerful version next year.
Here is a price list:
Double-speed motor-----------111USD
Double-speed controller-------21USD
LCD display--------------------24USD( it's optional, but other brands' display wont work with the controller)
H/A/L Switch-------------------3USD
Throttle--------------------------6USD(optional)
PAS--------------------------------3USD(optional)
Deliver cost----------------------74USD(to USA)

Feel free to ask me anything
Regards.
Bonnie
let me get bonnie's emai sorry new to computers etc... I believe it is posted on this thread somewhere and alibaba is how I got the info.

 

[sigimem]

How much for shipping to Germany/EU?

 

[menvert]

Deliver cost----------------------74USD(to USA)

$85 usd postage to Australia

Keep in mind that's the bare hub.
I was quoted for a laced version too - 700c double-wall rim add - $15 parts + $140 postage extra ($225 total postage)

 

[mountain biker]

36V26" Double-speed Motor 36V26"Normal Motor_x000D_ 36V26"Normal Motor_x000D_
High-speed Low-speed
T(N.m):Max 43.41 78 354.6 36.1 15.5 63.6 T(N.m):Max 23.58 146.6 362.0 36.05 15.5 64.6 T(N.m):Max 24.4 142.2 362.7 36.0 15.9 63.5
n(r/min):Max 0.17 130.4 2.3 36.1 0.5 13.3 n(r/min):Max 0.14 233.4 3.4 36.05 0.7 13 n(r/min):Max 0.2 222.8 4.9 36.0 0.7 20.5
Pout(W):Max 43.41 78 354.6 36.1 15.5 63.6 Pout(W):Max 23.58 146.6 362.0 36.05 15.5 64.6 Pout(W):Max 24.4 142.2 362.7 36.0 15.9 63.5
U(V):Max 0.17 130.4 2.3 36.1 0.5 13.3 U(V):Max 0.14 233.4 3.4 36.05 0.7 13 U(V):Max 0.2 222.8 4.9 36.0 0.7 20.5
I(A):Max 43.41 78 354.6 36.1 15.5 63.6 I(A):Max 23.58 146.6 362.0 36.05 15.5 64.6 I(A):Max 24.4 142.2 362.7 36.0 15.9 63.5
In(W):Max 43.41 78 354.6 36.1 15.5 63.6 In(W):Max 23.58 146.6 362.0 36.05 15.5 64.6 In(W):Max 24.4 142.2 362.7 36.0 15.9 63.5
Eff(%):Max 8.89 120.5 112.2 36.1 3.7 83.7 Eff(%):Max 5.9 213.8 132.1 36.05 4.4 82.6 Eff(%):Max 6.6 201.6 138.9 36.0 4.7 82.5
T(N.m) n(r/min) Pout(W)_x000D_Pout(W)_x000D_ U(V) I(A) Eff(%) T(N.m) n(r/min) Pout(W)_x000D_Pout(W)_x000D_ U(V) I(A) Eff(%) T(N.m) n(r/min) Pout(W)_x000D_Pout(W)_x000D_ U(V) I(A) Eff(%)
1 0.17 130.4 2.3 36.1 0.5 13.3 1 0.14 233.4 3.4 36.05 0.7 13 1 0.2 222.8 4.9 36.0 0.7 20.5
2 1.77 128.5 23.8 36.1 1.1 59.1 2 0.84 231.3 20.4 36.05 1.1 49.1 2 0.9 220.5 20.8 36.0 1.1 52.6
3 4.07 125.9 53.7 36.1 2.0 75.2 3 2.15 226.7 51.0 36.05 2.0 71.1 3 2.3 215.9 52.0 36.0 2.0 72.9
4 7.58 122.1 96.9 36.1 3.2 83.1 4 3.97 220.5 91.7 36.05 3.2 78.9 4 4.2 209.4 93.0 36.0 3.2 80.6
5 9.49 120 119.3 36.1 4.0 83.7 5 5.07 216.5 115.0 36.05 4.0 79.9 5 5.6 204.9 119.7 36.0 4.0 82.2
6 12.44 116.6 151.9 36.1 5.1 82.9 6 6.72 210.9 148.4 36.05 5.0 81.6 6 7.1 199.8 149.0 36.0 5.0 82.5
7 15.18 113.8 180.9 36.1 6.1 82.5 7 8.51 205 182.7 36.05 6.2 81.2 7 8.8 194.2 178.8 36.0 6.1 81.8
8 18.57 110.2 214.3 36.1 7.3 81.1 8 9.97 200.3 209.1 36.05 7.2 80.2 8 10.8 187.5 211.9 36.0 7.3 80.3
9 21.1 107.8 238.2 36.1 8.3 79.3 9 11.4 195.6 233.5 36.05 8.2 79 9 11.9 183.8 229.2 36.0 8.0 79.2
10 23.43 105.5 258.9 36.1 9.2 78.5 10 12.44 192.3 250.5 36.05 8.9 78 10 13.8 177.6 256.1 36.0 9.2 77.3
11 25.8 103.4 279.4 36.1 10.1 76.8 11 14.23 187.4 279.3 36.05 10.1 76.9 11 15.2 173.0 274.4 36.0 10.1 75.7
12 28.39 101 300.3 36.1 11.0 75.4 12 15.86 182.5 303.12 36.05 11.303 74.4 12 16.8 167.6 294.0 36.0 11.1 73.7
13 30.91 98.3 318.2 36.1 12.0 73.4 13 17.11 179.2 321.1 36.05 12.2 73.3 13 18.3 162.3 311.6 36.0 12.1 71.7
14 33.47 96.1 336.8 36.1 13.1 71.4 14 18.26 175.6 335.8 36.05 12.9 72.2 14 19.9 157.2 327.1 36.0 13.0 69.6
15 36.22 92 349.0 36.1 13.9 69.5 15 20.07 168.1 353.3 36.05 14.1 69.6 15 21.4 152.2 340.6 36.0 14.0 67.6
16 41.01 81.9 351.7 36.1 14.9 65.6 16 22.26 154.9 361.1 36 15.0 66.9 16 22.9 147.0 353.0 36.0 15.0 65.5

Looks like you get 82 rpm on low gear at 15 amps and 36 volts with 41.01 torque---and 155 rpm in second gear at 15 amps with 22.26 nm...... they amps required for level of torque are half in low gear.....as opposed to high gear.....crazy.... so do you let off the throttle if you want to go faster on this thing? I get it on a hill or take off gun it. to get that torque at 36 volt 15 amp...but once you shift into second it seems other motors are about 22 nm in the 250 watt range.....interesting.so cut it to 8.2 amps 233 rpm and 11 NM.
so what is the math 100 rpm on a 26 inch gives you like 8mph...

 

[menvert]

From what I can ascertain; that table doesn't really detail the load on the motor for each row, so it's not so easy to interpret, I assume load is slowly increasing down the table.
Now my knowledge on electromagnetic and 3 phase brushless DC motors is not expert, but from reading around, and in this thread, the RPM of the motor directly determines the max amps the motor can actually draw (something to do with EMF and heat generation), it's only when you hit a hill, and rpm slows that the torque/amps are able to pick up... winding back the accelerator will not increase RPM
This is how any Brushless DC hub motors will work, it's not XD unique, if you want more RPM you have to get different windings (meaning how long/thick the copper wire is that they use for the electromagnets inside the motor) which provide higher rpm at the cost of torque, or you can up the voltage...
At least with this motor we can switch gears to double the torque, unlike most other hubs

 

[Jonathan in Hiram]

Looks like you get 82 rpm on low gear at 15 amps and 36 volts with 41.01 torque---and 155 rpm in second gear at 15 amps with 22.26 nm...... they amps required for level of torque are half in low gear.....as opposed to high gear.....crazy.... so do you let off the throttle if you want to go faster on this thing? I get it on a hill or take off gun it. to get that torque at 36 volt 15 amp...but once you shift into second it seems other motors are about 22 nm in the 250 watt range.....interesting.so cut it to 8.2 amps 233 rpm and 11 NM.
so what is the math 100 rpm on a 26 inch gives you like 8mph...

Torque multiplication is what transmissions are all about, half the speed at the same wattage means twice the torque, one third the speed three times the torque and so on.

That's why bicycles have twenty four and more gears these days, torque multiplying the pathetic human output into something that will push you down the road at the maximum possible thrust for any given speed, incline and headwind for any given set of legs, you have to be able to match the power source to the load to get the highest efficiency and the mechanical means of doing that is through gearing.

An electric motor has a lot wider power power band than a human, even this little motor only needs two speeds to efficiently use the battery power over a fairly wide speed range, the human needs a lot of gears to work as close to maximum efficiency.

 

[Deesjoint]

Hi
I just purchased a xiongda 2speed motor for my first ebike build. it is a Rear motor 48V 300W disk brake+single freewheel (135mm) silvery, 25km/hfor 26'' rim. I was wondering what kind of battery pack to purchase for the build. 48V is a given but I would like to be able to ride without pedaling for at least 30 miles. I just asking for a best case situation. I've read post about the 12slipos packs and I'm kind of lost as to what to purchase. Also I want a thin/smallish pack. Thanks.

 

[menvert]

Hi
I just purchased a xiongda 2speed motor for my first ebike build. it is a Rear motor 48V 300W disk brake+single freewheel (135mm) silvery, 25km/hfor 26'' rim. I was wondering what kind of battery pack to purchase for the build. 48V is a given but I would like to be able to ride without pedaling for at least 30 miles. I just asking for a best case situation. I've read post about the 12slipos packs and I'm kind of lost as to what to purchase. Also I want a thin/smallish pack. Thanks.

Hmm 30 miles range no pedalling is a lot, on a 12Ah 36v I get about 24 miles with a 350w conventional hub @ 25kmh, pedalling only a little bit (that 's flattening the batetry to get that range) Now ideally for long life you never want to go below 20% remaining.

I am guessing you want a 15-20Ah battery Lipo probably, I dont think you'll get that sort of range from a 18650 bottle pack @48v (Personally I'd have gone with 36v if you wanted range but only 25kmh)
It also depends how you wish to set it on your bike? rear integrated rack? triangle bag lipo? bottle pack?
Also what sort of bike is it? and what wieght are you and the bike, do you have many hills?

But you'll need someone who's tried the XD with a 48v to estimate range, as it will be more efficient than my example...

 

[d8veh]

With no pedalling, you'll need 20Ah of 48V battery. If your roads are flat, you might manage with 15Ah

 

[Deesjoint]

is there a good battery supplier that you guys would recommend? One that sells the charger with the battery preferably.

The reason I went for the 48v is because I wanted a slightly faster low gear so that I could use it as my primary speed and only use high gear if needed. My commute on the bus now is roughly 2 hours to and from work, and I expect this to shave at least 45 minutes from my commute and add quality me time to boot.