2005 Kona Stinky GNG 1.0 build (mid-drive Stink-E) ABANDONED

Hi Skyungjae

Thanks for the posts. Helps me tons trying to figure which way to go on the bb/ arms. How much frame clearance are you left with behind the chain ring with the 140mm bb and the new crank freewheel ring setup. I replaced the stock rings also with similar freewheel setup and Going to a shorter ( Maybe 120mm) Square bb for now. The BB that came with the kit is very poor feeling.
 
speedmd said:
Hi Skyungjae

Thanks for the posts. Helps me tons trying to figure which way to go on the bb/ arms. How much frame clearance are you left with behind the chain ring with the 140mm bb and the new crank freewheel ring setup. I replaced the stock rings also with similar freewheel setup and Going to a shorter ( Maybe 120mm) Square bb for now. The BB that came with the kit is very poor feeling.

IMG_20130402_174446.jpg


Hopefully that picture can help give you a reference. My chainring set up really can't help other people. I used M8 nuts, teflon nuts (inverted them on the inside so the coned part fits in the bevel of the chainring), and rounded hex bolts so it would be beefier than any chainring bolt and give me the proper spacing/clearance for my e*thirteen chain guide. It worked out really well without me having to cut down M8 rod joiners.

I think if you're using standard chainring bolts and space everything closer together you may be able to get away with a ~120mm long spindle. I know the Truvativ Giga DH BBs came in three lengths. (113mm, 118mm, and 128mm). I believe the 113mm is intended for a single chain ring, because I have one for previous my single chain ring set up :wink: . 118mm for two chainrings, and 128mm for three chainrings. If anything, going with a 128mm as I have posted in this thread linked below may work for you, but I can't make any promises.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=47618&start=50#p705912

The pricing for Cyclone's set up is just too good to pass up. $98 (before shipping) for the 140mm BB, a triple chainring (giving you two gears up front instead of one), and freewheeling ISIS crank arms is simply a great deal. I'd swap the Dicta with a White Industries ENO, but the money saved from piecing everything together separately would cover that.
 
Thanks Skyungjae

I was able to get the old frames bb out and a old 112 mm long square test bb in the frame and it looks like a go. May not have enough room for a extra support bearing with out some added work, but it looks like the 39/53/56 on the stock crank with the acs xfire flanged freewheel all fits in frame without rubbing the stay. Will get the complete set of chain ring spacers made up and every thing snugged down and measure to see what may be best best in bb length. Reasonably sure I can fit a support bearing in with a 118 mm long square bb. Next step, looking at replacing the mini 12t freewheel.
 
Yesterday I was planning on exploring Carbon Canyon, but I was on a time crunch so it was the same ol' Loop. Anyhow, I did get some footage, but nothing spectacular.

[youtube]kkBD7FRt14s[/youtube]

Here are some stills if you don't want to watch the boring video.
vlcsnap-2013-04-06-11h21m46s147.png

vlcsnap-2013-04-06-11h18m48s134.png

vlcsnap-2013-04-06-11h20m24s87.png


This is the extended video of the last jump. I posted this to demonstrate how quiet the GNG is as well as its climbing ability. Unfortunately, video really downplays how steep or how high the terrain actually is. The hill I'm riding up is actually quite steep for even some seasoned riders, not just DH riders.
[youtube]yLxDPI4IHlg[/youtube]

Anyhow, this bike is, more or less, complete. I actually think this kit is pretty good out of the box if the end user is planning on using it at the advertised power rating and for commuting. I'm still on the original belt, and it's not showing any signs of excessive wear. I typically try to keep it around the 450w range when I'm riding. I'll spike it up to full power (limited at 20A) on some steep hills, but I'm never keeping it at around 1000w for a long period of time. My only beef was the weak bottom bracket, but it's all turned out to be a good thing. In the end, GNG users now have an affordable off the shelf solution to the weak square taper bottom bracket. On top of that, they also have the ability to run two chainrings (minus the one going to the jackshaft freewheel) up front giving the ability of more torque and higher speeds.

IMG_20130405_152911.jpg
 
full-throttle said:
Nice!

Looks like the chain guide is working well.

Got to finish mine.. :twisted:

My chain hasn't fallen off since I put that e*thirteen chain guide on. Between then and now, there have been many, many hard miles of single track, long bumpy downhills, stairs, and little jumps. I wish it were thinner in dimensions though. It clearly was not meant to be sandwiched between chainrings. :lol:
 
skyungjae said:
I wish it were thinner in dimensions though. It clearly was not meant to be sandwiched between chainrings. :lol:
Mine is set up with MRP. Same issue - slight rubbing with stock chain. A multi-speed chain will be better.
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Damn it. I guess I'm not done. I went ahead and ordered a new chainring set from Cyclone. They're sending me a 48/44/32T set up. That being said, I had to order a front left shifter, a front derailleur, and a cable housing kit. Hopefully it all works out okay. (-_-!)

e*thirteen chain guide anyone? $45 Hahaha.
 
My triple chain ring came in from Cyclone.


The outside 48T is a brushed aluminum.


The 32T and 44T are stamped steel.


During the install, I decided to use my 48T steel chain ring from my Sick Bike Parts set up. It's a bit heavier, but it should be able to handle more power somewhere down the line. It's nice to know that everything in my drive train is made out of steel. :)






Since my bike came with a single chain ring up front, I had to buy all the shifting stuff on my own. Here's what I ordered:

Shimano Deore SL M590 Left Shifter
Jagwire cable housing kit (came with way more than I needed)
SHIMANO DEORE FD-M591 9SP Triple Front Derailleur

The installation was very straight forward. I've never installed a front derailleur or replaced cable housings before, but it was rather quick. I ended up needing a longer chain though. When using my 34T Blackspire ring, my chain was pretty much maxed out on the largest rear cog. I extended it by 4 links, and the bike runs fine in all 18 speeds with almost no rubbing on the extreme ends.

For those of you wondering how I managed to get around the 3 speed shifter to only shift in the on the 32T and 44T rings without messing with the 48T ring that's powered from the motor, I placed it in on the middle setting or 2, rotated the outer ring derailleur adjustment screw all the way in and backed it out about 3/4 turn. It won't let me shift into 3rd setting all the way. 3 speed shifter is now a 2 speed shifter. :D

Durability and reliability are two separate things. Reliability wise, I've probably sacrificed a bit going from the e*thirteen chain guide to the triple ring derailleur set up. It did pass the stair test, but I'm not sure if it's going to vomit the chain off the ring off some big jumps or just rough terrain. The increased versatility of 9 to 18 speeds was worth the increased weight and reliability compromise. The 32T ring gives me better climbing ratios while the 44T gives me decent flat ground speed.

Durability probably didn't decrease that much. The bike is still using the same Shimano HG-50 rear cassette which is steel. The chain is the same width. Had I tried to fit an extra cog and gone with a 10 speed set up, there would definitely be a drop in overall durability.

Actually shifting between the front 32T and 44T rings is smooth. I haven't done it under power and don't intend on it.

Crankset Review:

1. GNG set up failed on day 1. Threads on the freewheel crank arm stripped. I splined it and pinned it to the freewheel, but it failed after a few hard rides.

2. GNG chain ring + BikeMotive crank arms & ACS 16T freewheel. BikeMotive cranks were ISO taper not JIS. I ran it with the freewheel on the outside of the GNG chain ring temporarily until I could put together my own chain ring set up.

3. Dicta freewheel, SickBikeParts steel 48T chainring bolted to my Blackspire 34T aluminum chain ring w/ random bolts from ace hardware. Bent the BB spindle during this set up. It seemed okay except that my bike would spit the chain off the front ring when my suspension compressed deeply and rapidly. e*thirteen chain guide fixed that. Then the Dicta freewheel crapped out pretty fast from all the dust and sand from my trail riding.

4. Cyclone 140mm ISIS BB & freewheeling cranks + my SickBike Blackspire chainrings + White Ind. ENO = my bomb proof set up.

5. Current set up: Cyclone inner 32T/44T chain rings, swapped the outer aluminum 48T chain ring w/ the steel SickBikeParts one.

Future plans:

For those of you following my build, there have been many times where I've stated I'm done. :lol: Really, at the time, I do feel that the bike is great where its at. Then something comes along that seems more appealing than what I already have. It was a hard decision for me to go with the Cyclone triple chain ring since I had ironed out all the short comings with the kit that suited my needs. Anyhow, I'm likely not going to do anything major in the near future. I am interested in LightningRods' potential wider belt upgrade as well as replacement motor shafts that could accommodate a chain sprocket. If I end up doing that, I'll probably do the controller staple shunt mod, increase my output amps (~30A), and go with a heavier gauge wiring.

My bike as it stands today:
 
Very nice build! Enjoyed reading your thread. Hub motors have some bad install traits to overcome, but nothing like this mid drive setup. Now you have me interested in the GNG kit! Having gears is a nice option.
 
shock said:
Very nice build! Enjoyed reading your thread. Hub motors have some bad install traits to overcome, but nothing like this mid drive setup. Now you have me interested in the GNG kit! Having gears is a nice option.

Thanks shock. You know what they say, hindsight is 20/20. Knowing what I know now and just going straight to my current set up would have saved me a lot of money. Unfortunately, this was a learn as you go experience. I certainly paid the price guessing and testing. I'm helping a friend build up his Kona Howler. It's probably going to be everything my bike should've been from the get go.

Anyhow, I got my first real ride in today which is the Fullerton Loop close to my home. The new chain ring set up performed fantastic with zero problems. Climbing speeds were a little quicker due to downhill and flat ground speed being significantly faster. My top speed on the downhill of the loop was always 30.X mph (pedaling) on asphalt. Today, I was able to go 39.7 mph downhill on the same section.

I initially thought that having more gears to choose from would be more complicated; however, I actually shift less with this set up. Instead of doing multiple shifting with my right hand, I found myself switching between the 32T and 44T ring up front and not shifting much in the rear unless the hill was very steep going up or down.
 
Nice work! I've got the ISIS cyclone crank setup sitting here ready to go on mine. Always helpful to see others doing it beforehand.
 
Looking good, I'm really happy with the cyclone kit over the last couple of weeks.

Seeing your setup makes me wish I hadn't binned the front derailleur during my build!
That would be some nice versatility to have.
 
pendragon8000 said:
TCv5A.gif

do it, do it now
pull the trigger

I suppose I will after I sell a few things. Also, I'm waiting for those 6S low voltage alarms w/ the LEDs to be restocked by HobbyKing.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__29652__On_Board_Lipoly_Low_Voltage_Alarm_2s_6s_.html
Is it okay to leave these plugged in while not using the batteries? I know the Turnigy ones have a low power mode, but they don't have an audible alarm.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...00mAh_6S_25_50C_Lipo_Pack_USA_Warehouse_.html
Probably gonna get 4 of these from the US warehouse instead of the ones with the 5.5mm bullet connectors available internationally and switch everything over to Anderson connectors. Soldering those 5.5mm bullet connectors on my battery umbilical was a pain in the a$$. The difference of tension with the bullet connectors is also annoying especially when taking the pack apart for parallel charging/balancing.

I run my current pack about 6Ah between charges and that can give me about a 20-30 mile range depending on how throttle happy I am. When I'm riding with 100% human powered bikes it's like a 60 mile+ range pace. I never get close to my LVC of 44v. It does everything I "need" it to do at the moment. I would like to be able to stretch the range as well as fun time though.

I'd treat the 12S 16Ah LiPo set up the same way with the same LVC. We'll see where the voltage is at under sag after 10Ah of use. I'd like to consistently get 12Ah of use if possible without coming dangerously close to depleting the pack. I figure the overall longevity of the new pack will be similar to my current one since I'll be charging it half as much. Then again... I'll probably use the bike much more.

I should see if my current pack can do Los Angeles to Orange County (~27 miles) at a decent pace before pulling the trigger. It takes me about an hour and a half to get home via train + riding. If I ended up riding home, on a regular basis (even once a week), I may be better off with a LiFePO4 set up.

LiFePO4? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ LiPo?

Edit:

The plan is in motion. :twisted:
 
skyungjae said:
I initially thought that having more gears to choose from would be more complicated; however, I actually shift less with this set up. Instead of doing multiple shifting with my right hand, I found myself switching between the 32T and 44T ring up front and not shifting much in the rear unless the hill was very steep going up or down.

This points out that what e-bikes need is not a lot of gears in close ratio, but fewer gears in wide ratio. If you could get it to shift, a cassette with three gears that covered the full range of a typical 18 speed would be perfect. 1st, 9th, and 18th gear. Getting the chain to make those big diameter jumps would be the trick.

I was planning a custom built FFW crankset based on a 19mm splined BMX spindle but I'm going to go with the 140mm Cyclone ISIS for now. The price is just untouchable and the quality seems decent.

High performance pulleys are being built now and will be available soon.

Great build, Skyungjae!
 
Cross posting from http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=47618&p=735261#p735261

Great thread...lots of good information here on a promising concept.
Can you tell me what the center-to-center distance is between the last two chainrings (the driver and the driven sprocket)? Do you find that the spacing is sufficient for a front derailleur or chain guide?

Thanks in advance...
 
LightningRods said:
This points out that what e-bikes need is not a lot of gears in close ratio, but fewer gears in wide ratio. If you could get it to shift, a cassette with three gears that covered the full range of a typical 18 speed would be perfect. 1st, 9th, and 18th gear. Getting the chain to make those big diameter jumps would be the trick.

I was planning a custom built FFW crankset based on a 19mm splined BMX spindle but I'm going to go with the 140mm Cyclone ISIS for now. The price is just untouchable and the quality seems decent.

High performance pulleys are being built now and will be available soon.

Great build, Skyungjae!

My only beef with the Cyclone chain ring was the crappy Dicta freewheel it came with. The flanged White ENO is such a huge upgrade. Paco is also having a new ISIS BB made that's 148mm long. I don't think the extra length is entirely necessary because the main drive ring already lines up with the 140mm long spindle. It may have room for an extra support bearing, and, perhaps, more room for a 32/48/48T set up.

The flange thickness on the White ENO vs Dicta is very different. I'm guessing the Dicta freewheel is going to be mounted on the outside of the chain ring for the new 148mm long spindle ISIS set up instead of on the inside as it is for the 140mm. The flange thickness difference may pose some issues regarding chain line. On the other hand, for people who just buy the BB and cranks, they may be able to use the GNG chain ring with a different diameter support bearing. We'll see what people come up with. No more guess and test for me. :wink:

I agree with you 100% regarding fewer gears with a wider ratio is more favorable. The way I shift and ride under power, I would be happy with a 5-speed rear cassette and beefier cogs. However, the market is still saturated with 9-speed, and that's what my bike came with. I suppose the one benefit of having those extra gears with such close ratios are good when you run out of battery. :lol:
 
I should have ordered the Turnigy Nanotech 6S 8.0 batteries when I had a chance. They're back ordered for who knows how long. :(

Anyhow, I decided to start the modification process which was mainly the wiring for higher sustainable Amps. With the help of my friend, I was able to do the T-50 staple shunt mod found here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46891#p686506

I actually cut the staple legs shorter to increase the Amps more than 5A. Denise, along with others, had figured out that each staple gives about a 5A increase. I thought it would be easier to shorten the staple and achieve higher Amps from the get go and use my Cycle Analyst to limit the output. It was rather successful, and now I can pull 30A+ out of this modification. For belt preservation, I still take it very easy on the throttle. I'm not using any of the CA's throttle mapping, but I have learned to rotate the throttle in a very gentle manner (sort of how I pretend there is an egg between my foot and gas pedal when I'm driving). I'll probably dial back the Amps a bit (25A or maybe even back to 20A), but we'll see how things hold up... original GNG belt system and all.

IMG_20130509_214431.jpg

I had initially tried doing this on my own with a broken $5 soldering iron, but I was unable to get the thinnest of solder hot enough to melt consistently. A big thanks to an old friend who went from mod chipping the original Playstation to fixing broken xBoxes.

As for the wiring, I decided to swap out my crappy, non-flexible, automotive 12 AWG wire with some thicker 10 AWG. I did buy some 8 AWG... but that was a bit overkill and just waaaaaaaaaaaay too thick for the Anderson connectors I'm using. While doing this, I thought it would be cool to wire in an LED light into the harness between the Cycle Analyst shunt and controller.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151033814275

This thing is much lighter than the T6 LED flashlight and mount and seems brighter. I haven't had a chance to test it on a near pitch black night ride yet. The light just has two wires coming out of it. At first, like an idiot, I tried wiring a switch to it, but I just kept on blowing fuses and frying some of my precious Andersons. Then the frustration set in, and I did what I should've done in the beginning. I took the light apart and placed the switch between the step down driver and bulbs.

IMG_20130513_162455.jpg

Light
IMG_20130513_162502.jpg

Switch
IMG_20130513_162734.jpg

Light off
IMG_20130513_162748.jpg

Light on :wink:

IMG_20130513_162442.jpg

When routing the new 10AWG wires, I decided to mimic the E'Go kit's battery plug location coming out the front of the seat. This is by far the most useful thing I have done with the electrical system. :lol: Now I can stand without having to make sure there is enough slack from my umbilical to stop any accidental disconnections. Also, my knees going up and down are free from accidental disconnections as well.

Anyhow, now I'm just waiting on LightningRod's pulley upgrade. At this time, I'm thinking the slip on 18T and 95T pulley to allow for a 20mm wide belt along with his adjustable sheets with new screw tensioners he's currently developing. Hopefully these parts are available before I ship off my tools to a person who's subscribed to this thread and probably reading this when he shouldn't be. :wink:
 
hydro-one said:
cool bike, better get some coroplast ("used" political signs :mrgreen: ), taped around those batteries. denting can wreck them and you will dent them if they are loose like that. coroplast notched and folded around with a bunch of duck tape works for me. also works with a few extra layers as a battery box on the bike as well

I did end up taking your advice and this is what I came up with shortly after:
IMG_20130528_233629.jpg


It did the job in terms of protecting my batteries, but my friend thought it looked terrible. While upgrading my battery harness to accept parallel packs, future LiPo, and higher amps, my friend decided to make me a new box.

IMG_20130528_233614.jpg

IMG_20130528_233755.jpg

IMG_20130528_233834.jpg

IMG_20130528_233842.jpg

IMG_20130528_234220.jpg

IMG_20130528_234713.jpg


Though it's only slightly larger than my original folded coroplast battery protector, it barely fits in my CamelBak Mule. I may find a slightly harger, generic, hydration pack for my batteries.

Also, with the new battery pack set up, I decided to re-route the power wiring on the bike yet again. At first, the plug came up from the top tube, and I plugged in between my legs. This worked fine most of the time, but there were incidents here and there where, if I didn't give my battery pack umbilical enough slack, I couldn't stand on the pedals without having to hunch over to keep the cables from disconnecting. Also, there were times during pedaling where my leg going up would disconnect the cable.
IMG_20130401_125030.jpg


When I upgraded the wiring on the bike initially, I ran the power wires along the top tube and up under the seat like the way the power cable is routed on the E'go kit. This was awesome because I could stand on the pedals without worrying about cable slack and there was no danger of my pedaling unplugging the connector. The only issue was when I had to stop and wanted to stand in front of the seat. If there wasn't enough slack, I'd be straddling the battery cable. Also, it made it difficult to adjust the seat height since the slack in the cable would change.
IMG_20130513_162442.jpg


Finally, I have found the perfect spot for the power plug:
IMG_20130529_065105.jpg


- Minimized the wiring that was on the bike
- Keeps wires away from my pedaling legs
- Able stand in front of the seat when I need to stop
- Able stand on the pedals without having to worry about battery pack umbilical length

I was inspired by this video:
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Holybike-video-2012.html

EDIT (June 6, 2013):
IMG_20130606_072213.jpg

A few days ago, I was riding without my battery pack plugged in. What got annoying fast was when I was going up steeper hills, the plug would poke my leg. Solution, route the plug to above the handle bars. :wink:

In all seriousness this time, I don't foresee much more changes beyond this point. I'm still looking for the option to go with a wider belt, but I almost feel like upgrading is a non-issue at this point since my original belt is still running strong after almost half a year. It seems to be handling well with the power increase as well. I ordered two spare belts just in case.
 
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