2cycle to electric conversion

[Stoogecurly]

Hey guys, new here to the site and everyone on here seems to have alot of know how and input. And i am at a turning point on what i want to do with my current bike and hope you can give me abit of advice and help.

My current bike is a trek mountain bike with a 2 cycle flying horse on it. Im am sick of having oil all over the place and all the maintenance of the gas motor its just a pain in the neck. I have had it for 4 years and have always wanted to go electric. Here is what im looking to go with

3000w cyclone middrive motor with a 72v pack. To cut some cost i want to build my own 72v power pack. Im looking at samsung 25r 20a in a 20s 5-10p configuration. What are some recommendations on what i should go with on bms choice and whats the best method to spot weld. Iv seen strips and iv seen people do sheets. Any advice, tips or tricks is appreciated.

 

[markz]

3000w cyclone middrive motor with a 72v pack.
To cut some cost i want to build my own 72v power pack.
Im looking at samsung 25r 20a in a 20s 5-10p configuration.
What are some recommendations on what i should go with on bms choice and whats the best method to spot weld.
Iv seen strips and iv seen people do sheets. Any advice, tips or tricks is appreciated.

Firstly, how fast do you want to go?
What kind of terrain are you riding? Are there lots of steep hills, or is it all flat.
Do you want to build your own battery, or buy a battery already made.

What do you plan to do putting a battery together, buy a welder, build a welder, use a soldering iron, friction fit?
You will also need 18650 holders, metal strips, a bms, and a charger. It comes out to about the same cost building yourself a battery as buying one from a reputable builder. Also look at Unit Pack Power on Aliexpress or Alibaba, as well as OSN Power.
I'd suggest you go ahead and buy a battery and charger from www.ebikes.ca out of Vancouver, BC, Canada, as they have an amazing sale on right now. You can grab a battery and a satiator charger for $155cdn which is half off, normally the satiator is $350cdn, and its very high quality, the best charger on the market. Lots of RC chargers for Lipos are $155cdn and are crap!
Or look at www.em3ev.com out of China for your battery and charger needs.

There is also the 4000 Cyclone mid drive motor, not sure how much more money it'd be compared to the 3kw.

72V battery would mean more speed to the motor and a bigger battery, 48V is better suited and a bit cheaper. You don't want to be zipping around full speed all the time.

Also, what does the law state on wattage and speed? Are you scared of the pigs in your area? Lots of people are, they wont dare go 251W when the law states 250W :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Stoogecurly]

I will be on road and off road mostly flat. i dont want restrictions. As for cops they seen my motor on the bike and have left me alone and id say i go a good 20-30mph now if i get a good open road. So im not worried. It would be nice to top out faster if need be.

I plan on making my own welder with a 12v battery and cylinoid. Seen some tutorials out there. Seems simple enough.

Yea id rather build my own battery but i guess if the price is right anyones mind can change. On average id be riding 30miles a day on it.

 

[Stoogecurly]

https://m.banggood.com/20S-72V84V-8...jPjp0B1CDFmYB1M6yorx7giiktDDHUjRoCrKMQAvD_BwE

Here is a bms i had found i have no clue if it would be any good.

 

[Stoogecurly]

3000w cyclone middrive motor with a 72v pack.
To cut some cost i want to build my own 72v power pack.
Im looking at samsung 25r 20a in a 20s 5-10p configuration.
What are some recommendations on what i should go with on bms choice and whats the best method to spot weld.
Iv seen strips and iv seen people do sheets. Any advice, tips or tricks is appreciated.

Firstly, how fast do you want to go?
What kind of terrain are you riding? Are there lots of steep hills, or is it all flat.
Do you want to build your own battery, or buy a battery already made.

What do you plan to do putting a battery together, buy a welder, build a welder, use a soldering iron, friction fit?
You will also need 18650 holders, metal strips, a bms, and a charger. It comes out to about the same cost building yourself a battery as buying one from a reputable builder. Also look at Unit Pack Power on Aliexpress or Alibaba, as well as OSN Power.
I'd suggest you go ahead and buy a battery and charger from www.ebikes.ca out of Vancouver, BC, Canada, as they have an amazing sale on right now. You can grab a battery and a satiator charger for $155cdn which is half off, normally the satiator is $350cdn, and its very high quality, the best charger on the market. Lots of RC chargers for Lipos are $155cdn and are crap!
Or look at www.em3ev.com out of China for your battery and charger needs.

There is also the 4000 Cyclone mid drive motor, not sure how much more money it'd be compared to the 3kw.

72V battery would mean more speed to the motor and a bigger battery, 48V is better suited and a bit cheaper. You don't want to be zipping around full speed all the time.

Also, what does the law state on wattage and speed? Are you scared of the pigs in your area? Lots of people are, they wont dare go 251W when the law states 250W :lol: :lol: :lol:

You just sent me down the rabbit hole now! Im over here looking at cyclones site and see a 6kw motor and i see even higher... now do i go with the 4 or 6.. what am i going to need to change up with the 6kw? It takes more amps or will it take a bigger battery beyond 72v..

 

[markz]

Not sure what the difference is between the wattage rating, motor wise. I know there is a difference in the motor between the 3kw and 4kw. Other then the physical motor differences, on the controller side, you'd need whatever voltage you want to use, and the total discharge of the battery. I will use 36V because its 10S, using Samsung 25R 18650's is I believe 25A per parallel string. So 10S(36V) and 2P(Is 5Ah and 50A max - Now you dont want to be near that 50A # all the time, you want your battery to last)
10S3P is 36V 75A, so a 50A controller would suffice.
You see how the battery costs get higher and higher with higher voltage.
36V is 10S
48V is 13S
72V is 20S - 20 18650's in a series to get 72V, 20x3=60 18650's instead of 39 18650's for 48V.

 

[motomech]

If you go with a high powered mid-drive on your Spooky, you will be spending more time and way more money than you are now.
If you use your bike daily to go places and are primarily concerned with costs and maintenance, I would just do a simple swap to a 4-cycle engine. Especially w/ gas prices so low.
If you had said "I'm interested in quiet and exercise", that would be another thing.
That would give you time to study up what you want out of an electric and how to do it, then build it at your leisure.

 

[Stoogecurly]

If you go with a high powered mid-drive on your Spooky, you will be spending more time and way more money than you are now.
If you use your bike daily to go places and are primarily concerned with costs and maintenance, I would just do a simple swap to a 4-cycle engine. Especially w/ gas prices so low.
If you had said "I'm interested in quiet and exercise", that would be another thing.
That would give you time to study up what you want out of an electric and how to do it, then build it at your leisure.

Its not a issue with dishing out money on an electric unit i want to go electric due to all the mess of gas. Have you had gas its messy, you have to constantly change out parts, the amount of gaskets lost screws bad magnetos, bad clutches bad gas line hoses, bad throttle bad heads is just a pain. The idea of electric with no clutch is so much more efficient for me and for things to go bad or upkeep is alot less then a gas motor. Not to mention i smell like i just rolled around in gas everytime i get off the bike.

 

[markz]

Its not a issue with dishing out money on an electric unit i want to go electric due to all the mess of gas. Have you had gas its messy, you have to constantly change out parts, the amount of gaskets lost screws bad magnetos, bad clutches bad gas line hoses, bad throttle bad heads is just a pain. The idea of electric with no clutch is so much more efficient for me and for things to go bad or upkeep is alot less then a gas motor. Not to mention i smell like i just rolled around in gas everytime i get off the bike.

Thats because you bought some shitty ass "China Doll" as the gassers call them. Yeah sure the noise, the handling of the gas and oil, the crappy parts, hardly any power at all, no torque neither. I'm sure the Honda motors would have been a better choice, but more money. Also 4cy engines are bigger and heavier, how to place that inside the frame.

Ebikes are the best choice. Leafmotor or Leafbike 1500W, Cyclone-TW, Luna Cycle, MXUS 3kw, QS 3kw, BBSHD, Cyclone 3kw+, hub motors. Lots to choose from.

Buy yourself a mxus 3kw direct drive hub motor, and a Greentime EVFitting controller on aliexpress and go have fun. Just hope you dont get going faster then 30mph on a bicycle meant to go half that, plus you stick out more when you speed around at those speeds.

 

[Stoogecurly]

yea it was a china pos but for 275$ at the time it was a great investment at way lower then what electric is and was at the time. thats what put me on this adventure. i want something more reliable more power and less weight/ more sleek looking. and i love diy projects.

so far here is what i have my eyes on

2-6KW Triple chainwheel kit, 80A 36-72V BT programable controller

20S Li-ion/Lipo BMS System 72V(84V) 80A Continuous Discharge Current 1

20S Li-ion/Lipo BMS System 72V(84V) 90A Continuous Discharge Current 2

Samsung 25R 18650 2500mAh 20A Battery


i plan on doing a 20s5p configuration and seeing how that works out. if i need to upgrade to a larger pack i can easily upgrade the pack if need be. does everything look solid as for parts? next thing im going to do is look into what size nickle i will need to spotweld onto the batteries. i was thinking of doing a dual layer of nickle just to give it added protection. i have also seen people doing bus bars. what are some recommendations on that? is soldering copper wires with the nickle plates needed like i see on some of these builds?

also guys thanks for throwing so many ideas at me! i had no idea they made larger then 3000w motors and never even tossed the idea of a hub drive. and the hub drive could be a solid contender still.

 

[dogman dan]

I hate to rain on the parade, but once you go pretty high power, high voltage, the battery alone starts to get very expensive.

The good news though, is that a fairly cheap 48v 1000w rear hub motor kit will get you the 30 mph or so, and be all you really need.

And later, its pretty easy to run the same hub motor at 2000w, still 48v, and perk up its performance. On the race track, a simple stock 1000w kit will kill a typical unmodified china girl. I showed up at a famous gas bicycle race years ago with a stock 48v kit on my bike, and beat every stock kit on the track. Next year all the contenders had to go to very expensive snowmobile engines to win, and got beat by an electric bike. (not mine).

Start with a stock 48v kit, and concentrate your cash on making batteries. It will take a lot of battery size to run higher wattage.

 

[Stoogecurly]

I hate to rain on the parade, but once you go pretty high power, high voltage, the battery alone starts to get very expensive.

The good news though, is that a fairly cheap 48v 1000w rear hub motor kit will get you the 30 mph or so, and be all you really need.

And later, its pretty easy to run the same hub motor at 2000w, still 48v, and perk up its performance. On the race track, a simple stock 1000w kit will kill a typical unmodified china girl. I showed up at a famous gas bicycle race years ago with a stock 48v kit on my bike, and beat every stock kit on the track. Next year all the contenders had to go to very expensive snowmobile engines to win, and got beat by an electric bike. (not mine).

Start with a stock 48v kit, and concentrate your cash on making batteries. It will take a lot of battery size to run higher wattage.

So you are saying go larger then a 20s5p? I mean i did bat the idea of a 20s10p

 

[st35326]

I hate to rain on the parade, but once you go pretty high power, high voltage, the battery alone starts to get very expensive.

The good news though, is that a fairly cheap 48v 1000w rear hub motor kit will get you the 30 mph or so, and be all you really need.

And later, its pretty easy to run the same hub motor at 2000w, still 48v, and perk up its performance. On the race track, a simple stock 1000w kit will kill a typical unmodified china girl. I showed up at a famous gas bicycle race years ago with a stock 48v kit on my bike, and beat every stock kit on the track. Next year all the contenders had to go to very expensive snowmobile engines to win, and got beat by an electric bike. (not mine).

Start with a stock 48v kit, and concentrate your cash on making batteries. It will take a lot of battery size to run higher wattage.

This is a great story and needs to have a dedicated thread, didn't they refuse to award a trophy to an electric? I was on the other side of this back in 2013 with a friend who had built what we all deemed was going to be a sure winner gas bike. Boy were we wrong, I was converted from that moment on and never built another gas powered anything.

 

[Balmorhea]

Im over here looking at cyclones site and see a 6kw motor and i see even higher... now do i go with the 4 or 6..

The higher powered motors (vs. the 1800-3000W) are longer, and will goober up your pedals a lot more. I like the higher torque available from the 2-4kW motor, but I would not put it between my pedals. And I wouldn’t put the power through a normal bike chain drive, because it will tear things up fast.

If you’re using a rag joint rear sprocket, don’t do that with an electric motor.

 

[ions82]

I'm also of the mindset that OP would be better off with a 1,500W (or less) motor and a big battery. Going beyond 30 MPH really starts to eat up the watts, and that gets expensive in a hurry. Especially on a bike that has both on and off-road capabilities. I assume OP's Trek MTB is a hardtail (hopefully having disc brakes). Sounds like a good candidate for a basic hub motor. High-five for making the leap over to electrons!

 

[Stoogecurly]

ok orders were placed today for stuff for the battery. ordered x140 samsung 25r 18650s some hex holders for the batteries. i had also put a order in for a 72v 300w 3amp charger. the next thing on the list is what motor i want to go with. hub/mid/low watts high watts... im torn on what i want to do. i am also torn if i should just buy a new bike for this build... :?