420A 24S ESC by aliens

[Byte]

Oooh I hope so that this new ESC will be able to handle a CA120! Would be awesome! Thos rewound and black anodized C80100 look nice too!

Congratulations Bruno!

 

[Dauntless]

This is like the old movie serials, it takes months, even years. . . .

We're left needing a "In our LAST adventure, our hero was left hanging from. . . ."

Say its all aluminum core PCBs. Where does the heat go?
I have a video of the latest greatest fighter cat 100v esc (claiming some hundreds of amps number) blowing up after 20seconds of 100amp battery current.
450amps will melt the solder off a pair of 8awg wires in less than a minute. This guy is full of shit.

So rather than just rip on this thing, let's behave as what ES is known for and come up with a solution.

This is a controller rated for 350amps for 2minutes when bolted to a huge 5lbs heatsink.
It's got massive fat high current busses running all over the place.

What sort of heatsink do you suggest to get up around that 2 minutes with the Alien?

I don't know which heatsink Sevcon is using, so I'm assuming something similar to this 300x300x40mm, which is 0,28K/W (natural convection). This puts the heatsink at 56K above ambient at nominal current, and would put it at 340K above ambient if used continously at 350A.

Someone is way ahead of me.

Good evening.
I want to just talk briefly about my product and let you know why this product works well and hopefully to demonstrate that I am not "full of shit" as I have been refered to by someone on here.

Good ta see ya! ES reputation brought you in, eh? I was hoping you would have an outrunner product to run the upper limits with a 24s 420a controller. The one you put up makes me think of '20 Mule Team Borax.' I'm guessing a 12mm shaft, or bigger? I assume it comes sensorless, you listed some to add.

Does this controller need sensors (Run ONLY with?) and does it have a BEC? The normal order of things for people has been to run sensorless and use a BEC in the throttle modification.

Don't get too worried about what Mr. Physics says, he's EXPECTED to be demanding and implaccable, people would come down on him if he wasn't. Makes the board more fun. He stays real calm when certain wannabee YouTube experts say what HE'S full of, so you know he doesn't take it all that seriously.

Everyone of us would be ecstatic with 24s 420A. The problem is, it's impossible for that controller to even be close to 150A 24S, but they are claiming it's 420A.

We're waiting to hear you weigh in on heatsink modification.

I'm beginning to think that this is worse than the "ultrafire 4000mah" battery thread.

Worse? You mean I'd enjoy the Ultrafire discussion more? There are those of us getting a lot out of this.

This discussion is going on too long and maybe my English is not correct so I could not explain everything right.

No it's not, no it's not. You're doing fine, It's just such a discussion is rough when you're not in the same place working on the same things together. I think this has really been a good game of football, both sides ran with it and great progress has been made. THIS is what these boards are for. I think if we can get just a bit more information on the motor and controller and it turns out to indeed what people can use, you'll be very glad you stepped in.

(Hoping for the setup to run sensorless and have a BEC.)

 

[brunotollot]

Hi Dauntless and thanks.

Before modified the controller, just in case, i'm will waiting the test results. I should use a big heatsink, also redesigned the PCB, but i prefer to keep the size as small as possible. I have started to test a thermoelectric cooler on the mosfet, but when it start cooling, it produce ice, so i need to think about an electronic thermic switch so if the controller is in standby the cooler is off and can't leak on the controller. Or maybe just put an aluminium plate between cooler and mosfet.

The controller that Luke will test is sensorless. Normally for the throttle power i use a DC/DC step down converter instead that a BEC. Anyway is similar.

Regards

 

[brunotollot]

Hi guys.
I have just finish to have a chat with my supplier for arrange a new controller only for E bike and also because after read the discussion i was a little curious about the similarities with fightercat. Apparently this company was the supplier of the fightercat racing. Then after some improving on the product they just finish the relation for different reasons (communications, agreements) and more that i can't say..... On some PCB is still printed this brand. Anyway i have send a new PCB desing for better heat dissipation with a bigger tracks for the current and different thikness. I want to do something very good for E bike. I started like this planet. MOQ 500 unit. They just waiting my "go" so, after test , i need to read the data, if necessary change something on the firmware, and start to do. Now all the controllers that i sold so far works fine so how it can burn at 100Amp and work with motor( RC and Hub) rated at 200 - 300 Amp? Maybe the BLDC motors are always over rated?

Thanks

 

[liveforphysics]

The controller has arrived! The dollar bill is for size reference. It's very large for an RC controller, about 3x the weight of an HV110. This is a good thing.

I look forward to getting into the testing. But first I've gotta send a package off to Doc and handle a couple other things.

 

[Arlo1]

Sitting on the edge of my seat please get video!

 

[jpgey]

Cannot wait !

 

[Byte]

Oooh! That thing looks like a beast! I cannot wait to see results of this thing!

 

[neptronix]

I will be disappointed if i do not see a video featuring smoke billowing out of this poor little thing by the end of the night.

 

[liveforphysics]

I will be disappointed if i do not see a video featuring smoke billowing out of this poor little thing by the end of the night.

I wish I could test it tonight, but it likely won't be until the weekend at soonest. I'm pretty slammed with work right now.



Bruno- I still need a test profile you would like me to use. How many amps for how long to start with, and then keep stepping it up. If I just start out with 420amps, I don't believe we would have more than a couple seconds of testing before it was destroyed.

 

[gwhy!1]

LFP.. please be gentle with it, at least give it a fighting chance.. Do these controllers have current limiting ? if so is it adjustable ( please limit the max current initailly to 100A and step up in increments of 10-20A at a time , if possible to do so ). I understand that this one do not have sensor inputs, When can we see one with the sensor inputs ?.

 

[flathill]

I may have missed it but what motor are you going to test with
Just curious

 

[Arlo1]

LFP.. please be gentle with it, at least give it a fighting chance.. Do these controllers have current limiting ? if so is it adjustable ( please limit the max current initailly to 100A and step up in increments of 10-20A at a time , if possible to do so ). I understand that this one do not have sensor inputs, When can we see one with the sensor inputs ?.

I would limit it to around 25 amps to start!

 

[liveforphysics]

LFP.. please be gentle with it, at least give it a fighting chance.. Do these controllers have current limiting ? if so is it adjustable ( please limit the max current initailly to 100A and step up in increments of 10-20A at a time , if possible to do so ). I understand that this one do not have sensor inputs, When can we see one with the sensor inputs ?.

I would limit it to around 25 amps to start!

It's pretty big, I bet it could realistically do at least 40-50amps for a true continuous duty cycle.


As far as the motor to test it with, I've got pretty much everything available. I was planning on using something that has a controller friendly inductance so we can get good testing out of it before something pops, but there certainly is value in seeing if it's able to handle some of the less friendly RC motors as well (which would mean I have to make mounts to bolt them to the dyno). What do you guys think?

 

[fizzit]

I say duct tape a good ol' turnigy 80-100 to the dyno and hook this baby up! There is no reason to waste time on motors that any controller can drive

 

[Arlo1]

LFP.. please be gentle with it, at least give it a fighting chance.. Do these controllers have current limiting ? if so is it adjustable ( please limit the max current initailly to 100A and step up in increments of 10-20A at a time , if possible to do so ). I understand that this one do not have sensor inputs, When can we see one with the sensor inputs ?.

I would limit it to around 25 amps to start!

It's pretty big, I bet it could realistically do at least 40-50amps for a true continuous duty cycle.


As far as the motor to test it with, I've got pretty much everything available. I was planning on using something that has a controller friendly inductance so we can get good testing out of it before something pops, but there certainly is value in seeing if it's able to handle some of the less friendly RC motors as well (which would mean I have to make mounts to bolt them to the dyno). What do you guys think?

Yup I would Start with a motor with >100uH and 25 battery amps for 1 minute and watch the temps amongh other things.
Then up it 10 battery amps and repeat.
Then when you see it warm up at what ever amp draw you find that is stop and start over with one of your <50uH motors Like your big turnigy motor or what ever bad ass motor you have.

 

[Arlo1]

I say duct tape a good ol' turnigy 80-100 to the dyno and hook this baby up! There is no reason to waste time on motors that any controller can drive

It would be good to know what it can do on a tame motor like a hub motor. In fact no one has ever tried a rc controller on a Hub motor as far as I know and I think they could be ok on a hub motor.

You will be supprised how usefull this thing can be with a easy motor. We all know this will end in fire and smoke so lets get some usefull data before that happens.

 

[hydro-one]

yes yes yes yes

re" rc controller hub motor JRH has been doing that for ages!!

 

[Arlo1]

yes yes yes yes

re" rc controller hub motor JRH has been doing that for ages!!

I stand corrected and I now know.
Non the less you will most likely find it can run harder on a hubby then a RC motor.

 

[flathill]

I would vote something like switching back and forth between motors to get as much data before it blows

a hub motor first up to half the rated power
Then RC up to quarter power to test max erpm
Then back to hub full power
If it survives...
Then back to low inductance rc full power

Any timing advance options ?

 

[Byte]

Luke, could you post some data of a 160HV ESC? At what current rating did the 160HV blew? I think it is a good idea to compare the Alien ESC to a 160HV.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Indeed, I was running RC escs on hub motors years ago. The biggest problem I had was the caps popping when running 12s. Always happened after I let off the throttle under load. Wonder why it happened on a high inductance hubbie



I would vote to get continuous load data (140f where the wires exit the board?) on a high inductance motor, then pull one hard run to twice the continuous current for a minute and see how it reacts thermally. Like chugging up a hill after cruising around on the flats. Then repeat with a hotter motor.

 

[Dauntless]

I say duct tape a good ol' turnigy 80-100 to the dyno and hook this baby up! There is no reason to waste time on motors that any controller can drive

And if THAT works. . .

Nonetheless you will most likely find it can run harder on a hubby then a RC motor.

. . . .SOMEBODY should offer a Colossus!

I cannot wait to see results of this thing!

I will be disappointed if i do not see a video featuring smoke billowing out of this poor little thing by the end of the night.

Ever see the movie 'Rudy?' I was running camera at the Rams football game (At least I don't THINK it was an Angels game, but Disney owned us at the time) at Anaheim Stadium where they were trying to get the crowd to chant "Rue dee - Rude dee - Rud dee." I'm distressed to hear someone rooting AGAINST this thing, I'd rather hear everyone chanting "Aleee ENS - Alee ENS" without going to a MUFON meeting.

I'll be disappointed if we DO see. . . .

 

[johnrobholmes]

We won't know the real burst capabilities without getting smoke though. I think it is safe to assume that 420 amps is not the continuous rating, and without testing it there is no way to really know! In the end I am pretty sure Luke will put on a ridiculous motor and load it down until failure so the actual limit is found. Pushing the limits is what he is good at


Big honking controller!

 

[brunotollot]

Hi Luke, here the pictures. It is a standard USB link 4 wire (+5v GND TX RX). I think you can do. If not please let me know. I will post by express delivery 3 days. The ESC is not plug&play. It need to be programmed for what you will use. Regards