A123 20Ah Quebec Group buy(Canada) cells ARRIVED 24.57$/cell

[oatnet]

used/recycled/manufacture defects? no idea.hence the reason we are getting them so cheap. case closed.

Thank goodness the case is closed, I hope that is the last we hear of your opinons on the topic. We have all heard your concerns, and I highly, highly recommend that you do not purchase any of these a123 pouches because it is obvious they don't meet your design requirements. I don't think anyone here has a need or desire to convince you otherwise.

I am an early adopter who was been using the a123 Prisimatics in a variety of applications for 2+ years. I recently bought (110) cells from VictPower, and they are NEW, and of better quality than the cells I bought 2 years ago. Unfortunately, my real-world testing does not align with your paper arguments. Even if your assertions had some basis in reality, we have been using used/recycled/manufacturing defect cells in this hobby since Endless Sphere started, so I STILL wouldn't think twice about buying them at this price.

Now that we have heard your opinions, and you feel the case is closed, for the rest of us who find the cells DO meet our design requirements, do you mind if continue to purchase, use, and discuss them? Or will you not be happy unless we send our pristine unused cells back to China and burn our fully functioning packs on a pyre built from puffed lipo packs shorted red-to-black? :lol:

-JD

PS - I thought it important to share a picture of the pack you built from these cells; it looks like you may have gotten crap no-tab cells from somewhere, and are projecting that ALL a123 is like that. Note that I got this picture from your sales thread, because you haven't bothered to share the build thread or for that matter contribute any content to this forum - most of your 42 posts here are trash-talking the a123 prisimatics. Despite that, this is what you have to say about "used/recycled/manufacture defects" when YOU use them:

he tested a bunch of these cells from the batch before selling them to make sure they deliever 20ah- there is a video of him testing the cells over 10c with a cba- they are impressive
they've been used a few times back and forth- i dont think i put more than 50 cycles on them - but i can say these are the best cells i've ever owned next to lipo

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=38448&p=561361#p561361

PPS, you know that generic foam you used is HIGHLY flammable, right? Essentially, Gasoline in stasis? Like a good spark could light the whole thing up?

Edit: It appears that davec was so embarassed by his pack, that he deleted the picture. Fortunately, I saved a copy in my "Hall of Awefulness" so this gem would not be lost.

 

[oatnet]

A PM from the noob:

Sent: Wed May 02, 2012 10:16 am
From: davec
To: oatnet
can you kindly remove your post?
i dont see it as having relevance to the discussion of the thread
this is an EV community- not a bashing community
im only posting facts for folks who wanto hear about these cells- you dont like what you hear dont listen.
thx

Dave - NO, I will not remove my post. You seem to miss the fact that most of your 42 posts are bashing posts, and that the folks you think "want to hear about these cells" have repeatedly asked you to SHUT UP. You have negligable experience with these cells, or this hobby, and you are actively spreading disinformation. You have yet to contribute a build thread or any content to E:S, so I am not sure why you think you have a critical perspective to share. The only thing I see you having built, the pack utilizing highly flammable foam, is incredibly dangerous.

That said, you are welcome to have an opinon that is not based in the real world, so do you mind if those of us with real, practical experience have our opinions, or are you going to hump our legs like a crazed weiner dog every time someone mentions a123 prisimatics?

-JD

 

[bigmoose]

I am on mobile iPod now when I get home I will publish pictures
Where terminal meet pouch clear isolation from thin plastic should bee seen
It isolate terminal from silver pouch.
It is serious mechanical fault because if terminal touches pouch you know what might happen

I agree and that is why I have interest. I checked my cells in particular in that area and they were all OK. It is my understanding that the foil pouch is thinly coated with nylon, and that there is a thin teflon insulator between the inside nylon layer and our tabs.

Thanks for catching this. Another manufacturing anomaly to keep an eye on. Starts to make you wonder how many QC escapes in total there are in these?

On other note, I believe factual data should be presented on the board and opinions stated. If someone credibly refutes your opinion, that opinion is valid and should stay up. The community will then work through the details, given time, and we will all gain more understanding. Removing pictures and revising posts after someone questions "stuff" is not something I can personally support. Clarifying, yes. Revising with additional detail, yes. Revising and saying it was bad data, conclusions, or whatever, yes.

The forum needs to be about technical "truth" and the advancement of this technology... I have seen my fair share of ego's in the conference rooms... it never ended well if the parties did not recognize the "truth" that others brought to the table with an open mind. ... and just so no one thinks I was a saint in this area, I was frankly a complete arrogant, unteachable idiot until I was in my mid 30's... and got to work under the best Chief Engineer of my life on multi billion dollar projects. Steve's capability, humbleness, strength, intelligence and kindness gave me the model to emulate. [/philosophy]

Note: I edited this to add detail and more clarity.

 

[dnmun]

All my cells from Victpower deliver over 19Ah until 2V cut off.
They deliver even more until 2.5V .
Except 3 cells which has mechanical defects-no isolation around terminals
Which suppose to isolate terminal from pouch and Victpower refuse so far to replace.

so now we know why victpower is refusing to sell more cells.

 

[oatnet]

All my cells from Victpower deliver over 19Ah until 2V cut off.
They deliver even more until 2.5V .
Except 3 cells which has mechanical defects-no isolation around terminals
Which suppose to isolate terminal from pouch and Victpower refuse so far to replace.

so now we know why victpower is refusing to sell more cells.

Victpower has stopped selling Assembled Modules (28s3p,7s3p) which had a defect, but AFAIK they are still selling the new cells. I really need to see this "mechanical defect" to understand - if the terminal is not isolated, it will complete a circuit through the pouch.

 

[dnmun]

but we have no evidence of that. i doubt if we ever see a cell shorted through the mylar. which is what he is saying is the problem with his.

 

[oatnet]

Removing pictures and revising posts after someone questions "stuff" is not something we support.

"Last edited by davec on Wed May 02, 2012 10:21 am, edited 3 times in total."

Yep, just when I thought it wasn't possible for him to lose any more credibility, I see DaveC edited his 'sale' post and deleted the picture I linked to above. Dave, is editing reality your idea of "only posting facts"? Fortuntely, the picture is still showing up, and I anticipated the b!$%^$ move and made a copy of your pictures and the original post, so I can bring them back anytime.

 

[miro13car]

Look at the bottom of terminal on your cell
You can see thin transluctent plastic
This plastic is missing or is down there /JUST ON ONE TERMINAL of each cell / not showing above the edge of pouch
Just have look at your cell
Do you think one should not complain to Victpower that he got useless cell?
3 cells are useless after discharging they do not recover to over 3V like all other 17 cells because obviously missing isolator around terminal of course they some kind of soft short
After a week after discharge they still below 3V !!!!!
I should not complain you try to say?????

 

[Ypedal]

I closed the reports from this thread.. and leaving the content the way it is for the moment..

oatnet, i know it's your style to be direct and blunt lol... but let's try and play nice please..

 

[cassschr1]

micro , why is the clearness of the plastic on the edge of the cell a concern?

 

[cassschr1]

Dave, of the 12 cells I bought from you NONE deliver 20ah
1 was squishy, but delivers 19a ri is good
another cell had ri of 10.6mohms and would not charge nicely with other cells
So apparently these cells are just like the rest. Cass

 

[miro13car]

Cass
Clearness of isolator is not concern if you read my posts carefully but the lack of clear plastic isolator at the bottom of terminal is serious concern.
Here are pictures of cells from Victpower.
Compare left terminal with right terminal,see difference?

 

[cwah]

Are all the cells good? I'm thinking about purchasing a pre-made pack from them

 

[deVries]

In the last test i got 18.95A at 20A ( 1C) and now at 100A ( 5C)i got 18.28Ah so wich mean that only 0.67Ah was dissipated in heat loss due to the internal resistance of the cells after drawing 80more Amps.

I have calculated about 1.8 miliohm DC at exactly 50% of the discharge. The voltage average over the 100% of the discharge at 100A was 2.97V on the cell tab and got 54.3 Wh energy.

I will do more test in the next days.

Doc

Doc, did you do anymore IR tests you can post now? What would you consider to be the nominal range of IR for these specific new cells? Do you have any reference data you've found that shows how the IR will normally increase (get worse) over time or number of cycles too?

Thanks.