EDIT: This thread's purpose has changed; it's now going to be about building a Lebowski controler that does what I described in the original title. (or rather, a pair of them).
They are to run the rear left and right hubmotors of the SB Cruiser trike:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67833&p=1250812#p1250808
(present configuration as of 12-25-16, with Yogi in foreground)
Presently these motors are an old Crystalyte X5304
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=64279
and an old much-abused 9C 2807, but the 9C will be replaced with an MXUS 3K 45H
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=84337
as soon as I can get the wheel swapped from one to the other.
The goal is a pair of controllers that can do:
-- reliable hauling of me and dogs and cargo; this *is* my transportation.
-- proportional braking (more lever pull = harder braking like mechanicals)
-- very hard braking (at least as hard as mechanicals can do), ideally so that it actively fights the wheels' rotation, not just slowing it.
-- braking down to as close to zero speed as possible, from as high a speed as possible, because I need to be able to stop the very heavy SB Cruiser trike (several hundred pounds with rider and dogs and/or load and/or trailer of cargo) in as short a space as possible. Legally the brakes have to be able to skid the wheels, and since I'm using Shinko SR241 "20" wheels on the pair of motor wheels, it's not that easy to skid them, especially with a load or dog back there. My front mechanical rim brake can be set to skid the front wheel, which is sufficient to meet the legal requirements, but I'd love to have the ability to electrically brake that hard, too, with both rear wheels. As heavy as the trike is, it could be critical someday.
--instant start, for as quick an acceleration as is possible from a stop, to get it up to speed (just under 20MPH, the legal limit here) as quickly as possible, regardless of load. If instant start impractical, then as fast a ramp-up as possible under whatever limitations I end up with.
--high power; exact level unknown. Present 12FET generics provide about 30-35A battery current each, using a 14s1p 20Ah EIG NMC pack, something around 1500-1600w peak on each wheel, IIRC. This presently gives several seconds from 0-20MPH, when unloaded. Is too long in traffic with some cars growing impatient as I accelerate. Not so bad once past 8-10MPH but not quick enough before that. Ideally less than 3 seconds 0-20MPH.
--programmable, to experiment with various settings, to eventaully optimize it for my rides.
(other requirements to be listed as I remember them or figure them out)
Whereswally offered PCBs and possible help sourcing components; and Lebowski the brain chips.
I'll accept any other components needed for it that anyone else has to offer, or if they're cheap enough for me to afford, but I should have many, perhaps all, of the passive parts already around in my stuff already. I also have FETs to test with, and probably make the full operational pair of them, as long as I don't need more than 100V types. Beyond that I'd have to save up to buy them.
I may also have FET driver chips in DIP form but they may not be the right pinout or functions for these PCBs
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=81990
Have to find them in my stuff and see which ones they are.
Links to other Lebowski-controller-related threads, will add as I find them (am also reading and rereading them all to learn what I can before diving in):
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=lebowski&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sk=t&sd=d&sr=topics&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=36602
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=82160
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=81990
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=83788
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=80468
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=81681
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=81889
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=55641
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63572
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=57877
Links to various sections of this build thread as I get to each stage will be added here:
Original post:
******************************************
Sorry for the long post, but I'm not totally sure what everyone calls each of the things I'm after, so thought it might be easier to describe what I need, and let readers decide if they know of products that meet my needs.
In the relatively near future, I may have a battery/etc upgrade to the SB Cruiser trike, so am now looking at new controllers for the dual rear hubmotors on it (presently one X5304 and one 9C 2807, in 20" wheels. Will be relacing the 2807's wheel onto an MXUS3k "45H 3T" after I find washers for my spokes to fit it, or redrill the flange, or get new spokes), for more equal torque on both sides.
The battery may be a 28s, so I'd need a controller capable of reliably handling 120V hot-off-charger voltages, meaning it would need components (caps, fets) actually rated significantly higher than that, so I don't have to worry about anything failing under whatever wierd circumstances that might come up.
The trike needs to be reliable while hauling heavy loads (potentially at least half a ton, to plan for the future, presently at least 600-700lbs, including myself and the trike and the dogs). So the controllers have to be reliable under those loads.
I don't know for sure what battery current it needs to be able to handle, but the 12FETs I am using now can take 60-80A between the pair of them, during the several seconds it takes to get from a stop to the max of 20MPH, and it takes too long right now, would prefer to get that down to 3 seconds, which might be some massive torque, and I don't know that the motors I have are capable of that, but I'm willing to test them out. I expect it'd probably take 80-100A battery current, at least, to do what I'm after, for those few seconds.
The controller also needs to have the "EABS" type of regen braking, that actively powers the wheel against the rotation direction, to force it to stop faster. Simple regen braking isn't really sufficient; I'd like to be able to stop quickly and completely with just the EABS (even though I also have mechanical brakes), and regen on any controller I've used so far is totally insufficient for this--but the EABS on the X5304's controller *would* do this if I had it on both rear wheels. I'm totally ok that this *uses* power rather than recovering any.
Because that is some massive braking torque, if what I get using that now with just one little controller and the X5304 is any indication, I'd also prefer to get proportional / variable-with-the-brake-lever braking force. I don't want one that changes the braking force with the throttle; it needs to be a separate control (I can easily build a brake lever that has an analog hall sensor to change levels). This is partly because I use independent throttles for the motors, but I will probably use a single brake lever for both to avoid brake steer for various reasons.
I'll probably need to tweak settings for various things, so it'd help if the controller is programmable, too.
I think the Grin Phaserunner would probably do what I want if it were only high enough voltage. (and not so expensive, and so complicated to setup).
As a bit of additional info, the trike itself is linked in my signature. The areas I ride are relatively flat, so the only times I typically need high current are during acceleration, and during short uphills into driveways/parkinglots.
Controllers get mounted next to the wheels under the cargo deck, so they get plenty of airflow for cooling and the phase wires stay pretty short.
If there are questions to clarify things; I'll copy the answers up here in the OP as well for later readers.
They are to run the rear left and right hubmotors of the SB Cruiser trike:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67833&p=1250812#p1250808
(present configuration as of 12-25-16, with Yogi in foreground)
Presently these motors are an old Crystalyte X5304
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=64279
and an old much-abused 9C 2807, but the 9C will be replaced with an MXUS 3K 45H
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=84337
as soon as I can get the wheel swapped from one to the other.
The goal is a pair of controllers that can do:
-- reliable hauling of me and dogs and cargo; this *is* my transportation.
-- proportional braking (more lever pull = harder braking like mechanicals)
-- very hard braking (at least as hard as mechanicals can do), ideally so that it actively fights the wheels' rotation, not just slowing it.
-- braking down to as close to zero speed as possible, from as high a speed as possible, because I need to be able to stop the very heavy SB Cruiser trike (several hundred pounds with rider and dogs and/or load and/or trailer of cargo) in as short a space as possible. Legally the brakes have to be able to skid the wheels, and since I'm using Shinko SR241 "20" wheels on the pair of motor wheels, it's not that easy to skid them, especially with a load or dog back there. My front mechanical rim brake can be set to skid the front wheel, which is sufficient to meet the legal requirements, but I'd love to have the ability to electrically brake that hard, too, with both rear wheels. As heavy as the trike is, it could be critical someday.
--instant start, for as quick an acceleration as is possible from a stop, to get it up to speed (just under 20MPH, the legal limit here) as quickly as possible, regardless of load. If instant start impractical, then as fast a ramp-up as possible under whatever limitations I end up with.
--high power; exact level unknown. Present 12FET generics provide about 30-35A battery current each, using a 14s1p 20Ah EIG NMC pack, something around 1500-1600w peak on each wheel, IIRC. This presently gives several seconds from 0-20MPH, when unloaded. Is too long in traffic with some cars growing impatient as I accelerate. Not so bad once past 8-10MPH but not quick enough before that. Ideally less than 3 seconds 0-20MPH.
--programmable, to experiment with various settings, to eventaully optimize it for my rides.
(other requirements to be listed as I remember them or figure them out)
Whereswally offered PCBs and possible help sourcing components; and Lebowski the brain chips.
I'll accept any other components needed for it that anyone else has to offer, or if they're cheap enough for me to afford, but I should have many, perhaps all, of the passive parts already around in my stuff already. I also have FETs to test with, and probably make the full operational pair of them, as long as I don't need more than 100V types. Beyond that I'd have to save up to buy them.
I may also have FET driver chips in DIP form but they may not be the right pinout or functions for these PCBs
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=81990
Have to find them in my stuff and see which ones they are.
Links to other Lebowski-controller-related threads, will add as I find them (am also reading and rereading them all to learn what I can before diving in):
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=lebowski&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sk=t&sd=d&sr=topics&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=36602
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=82160
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=81990
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=83788
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=80468
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=81681
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=81889
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=55641
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63572
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=57877
Links to various sections of this build thread as I get to each stage will be added here:
Original post:
******************************************
Sorry for the long post, but I'm not totally sure what everyone calls each of the things I'm after, so thought it might be easier to describe what I need, and let readers decide if they know of products that meet my needs.
In the relatively near future, I may have a battery/etc upgrade to the SB Cruiser trike, so am now looking at new controllers for the dual rear hubmotors on it (presently one X5304 and one 9C 2807, in 20" wheels. Will be relacing the 2807's wheel onto an MXUS3k "45H 3T" after I find washers for my spokes to fit it, or redrill the flange, or get new spokes), for more equal torque on both sides.
The battery may be a 28s, so I'd need a controller capable of reliably handling 120V hot-off-charger voltages, meaning it would need components (caps, fets) actually rated significantly higher than that, so I don't have to worry about anything failing under whatever wierd circumstances that might come up.
The trike needs to be reliable while hauling heavy loads (potentially at least half a ton, to plan for the future, presently at least 600-700lbs, including myself and the trike and the dogs). So the controllers have to be reliable under those loads.
I don't know for sure what battery current it needs to be able to handle, but the 12FETs I am using now can take 60-80A between the pair of them, during the several seconds it takes to get from a stop to the max of 20MPH, and it takes too long right now, would prefer to get that down to 3 seconds, which might be some massive torque, and I don't know that the motors I have are capable of that, but I'm willing to test them out. I expect it'd probably take 80-100A battery current, at least, to do what I'm after, for those few seconds.
The controller also needs to have the "EABS" type of regen braking, that actively powers the wheel against the rotation direction, to force it to stop faster. Simple regen braking isn't really sufficient; I'd like to be able to stop quickly and completely with just the EABS (even though I also have mechanical brakes), and regen on any controller I've used so far is totally insufficient for this--but the EABS on the X5304's controller *would* do this if I had it on both rear wheels. I'm totally ok that this *uses* power rather than recovering any.
Because that is some massive braking torque, if what I get using that now with just one little controller and the X5304 is any indication, I'd also prefer to get proportional / variable-with-the-brake-lever braking force. I don't want one that changes the braking force with the throttle; it needs to be a separate control (I can easily build a brake lever that has an analog hall sensor to change levels). This is partly because I use independent throttles for the motors, but I will probably use a single brake lever for both to avoid brake steer for various reasons.
I'll probably need to tweak settings for various things, so it'd help if the controller is programmable, too.
I think the Grin Phaserunner would probably do what I want if it were only high enough voltage. (and not so expensive, and so complicated to setup).
As a bit of additional info, the trike itself is linked in my signature. The areas I ride are relatively flat, so the only times I typically need high current are during acceleration, and during short uphills into driveways/parkinglots.
Controllers get mounted next to the wheels under the cargo deck, so they get plenty of airflow for cooling and the phase wires stay pretty short.
If there are questions to clarify things; I'll copy the answers up here in the OP as well for later readers.