An ebike IS a "moped"

[LockH]

... according to some industries (like the "motorcycle" biz worried about their market drying up, etc) IF it's "high powered" (that's with more than 250 watts, donyaknow [GASP]) in the UK:
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/an...50-watts-of-power-is-a-moped-warn-orgs/019175

There are no "grey areas" when it comes to selling high-powered e-bikes, warns a joint statement from the representative bodies of the motorcycle and cycle industries. The statement from the Motorcycle Industry Association and the Bicycle Association of Great Britain says the organisations are concerned that some sellers are unaware of – or ignoring – the regulations pertaining to the sale and use of "speed pedelecs". (Pedelec is a portmanteau of the words "pedal" and "electric".)

Some retailers are claiming that the high-powered e-bikes they stock are for "off-road use" and that this makes them exempt from existing rules. It does not, says the statement from MICA and BAGB.

"In order for an electric bike to enjoy the same rights as an ordinary pedal cycle, it should have working pedals, not exceed 250 watts and the electrical assistance should cut out when the bike reaches 15.5mph," says the statement.

In the UK, an electric bike over 250W is legally classified as a moped if it is to be ridden on the road. Mopeds must be type-approved, registered, taxed, insured and have an MOT. The rider must also have the appropriate licence and training, and must wear a helmet.

If a high-powered electric bike is intended for off-road use in the UK it must comply with the same rules which apply to off-road motorcycles – meaning their riders are barred from using public roads, common land, paths or tracks intended for cyclists, and must be registered on an agreed list for off-road competition bikes, known as the FIM competition list.

It makes no difference if the machine – wink, wink – has a cheat-switch to flick between a higher and lower power setting: the higher power rating is the rating that the bike needs to be classified by.

Steve Garidis, operations director of the BA, said:

"The vast majority of the industry understands its obligations and is highly professional in the way it sells electric bicycles, but it's vital all sellers understand there is really no grey area when it comes to when an electric bicycle must be treated as a moped."

He added: "Speed pedelecs, a category of faster e-bike becoming popular in Germany and other countries, are categorised as mopeds in the UK. They have motors more powerful than 250W and offer power assist to a higher speed than 15.5mph).

"Unlike in Germany, there are no regulations which exempt speed pedelecs from any of the standard moped requirements in the UK, so the machine must be type-approved, registered, taxed, insured, and the rider must have a suitable licence and wear a full motorbike helmet, and be over 16. And guys should wear proper athletic support. "

Dave Luscombe, MCIA's project manager for Alternative Powered Vehicles, said retailers must read the rules that govern the use of the machines they are selling:

"Telling someone they are 'okay on private land' is seriously misleading. High powered off-road electric bikes currently fall within rules meant for off-road motorcycle sport. They can't use public roads, common land or any trails or paths intended for bicycles, and the e-bike must be registered on the FIM competition list, which is a list agreed by all EU manufacturers for bikes used in off-road sport."

He stressed: "Dealers must make the restricted access very clear to people."

(OK. I might have embellished/been kidding about the "support" bit. Hehe)

 

[sonnetg]

According to Maryland law, most Stealth, Raptor, Vector or anything over 1200 watt (1.5 horsepower?) would probably be considered a Moped. You have to have apply for title and tags. I think Mopeds and scooters didn't require any Registration or tags prior to 2012, but the laws changed. There are lots of loopholes though for ebikes. I think I will apply for Title/tag/VIN for the Raptor I am building and see how it goes. should be fun...

According to Maryland MVA:
http://www.mva.maryland.gov/vehicles/registration/mopeds-motor-scooters.htm

"Moped" means a bicycle that:

* Is designed to be operated by human power with the assistance of a motor.
* Is equipped with pedals that mechanically drive the rear wheel or wheels;
* Has two or three wheels, of which one is more than 14 inches in diameter; and
* Has a motor rating of 1.5 brake horsepower or less and, if the motor is an internal combustion engine, a capacity of 50 cubic centimeters piston displacement or less.


PS: I will apply as an offroad vehicle. But would anyone happen to know the process if I want to register it for road use? I suppose it will need to be inspected for DOT tires, Turning signals, brake lights :?

 

[markz]

In order for an electric bike to enjoy the same rights as an ordinary pedal cycle, it should have working pedals, not exceed 250 watts and the electrical assistance should cut out when the bike reaches 15.5mph," says the statement.

Well then that word "should" is a big no no. Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda.
I remember listening to Justin talk about the term motor watts. If I remember correctly, and its been some time now, and it will be very hard for me to find the video or post..... I remember some talk about the wattage of the motor is a general guideline and is NOT set in stone. If that be the case, then any mention in any law about watts, wattage, watt is a very big loophole indeed. The law is built on loop-holes, people are paid a pretty dime to exploit the loop-holes law makers make.

For now, a very good argument could be made in front of a judge viewing your ticket, that a bicycle has pedals therefore its a bicycle not a moped. The motor is non-sense. A parallel situation would be then to outlaw each and every vehicle that has the ability to go over 60mph = 100kph without any governor on it. That kind of goes along the same lines with ebikes. Will the authorities draw a parallel line, or make it askew. Seems to me they are making it askew because ebikers do not have a powerful lobby foundation to give the middle finger to authority and shove dollar bills down their throats in hopes they gag and submit to your demands. Maybe choke on a fiver! and go 6 under!

Is that speed limit up a 100% grade (being sarcastic there), with a 1 pound person?
The determining factor in a ticket is the speed limit, not the power of the motor.

 

[aroundqube]

Re; Maryland USA - Electric Bicycle is not a moped . See http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2014RS/chapters_noln/Ch_294_sb0378E.pdf

 

[Sunder]

"Telling someone they are 'okay on private land' is seriously misleading. High powered off-road electric bikes currently fall within rules meant for off-road motorcycle sport. They can't use public roads, common land or any trails or paths intended for bicycles, and the e-bike must be registered on the FIM competition list, which is a list agreed by all EU manufacturers for bikes used in off-road sport."

He stressed: "Dealers must make the restricted access very clear to people."

(OK. I might have embellished/been kidding about the "support" bit. Hehe)

Half truths by everyone with a vested interested: Public roads are not private land. Common land is not private land, trails and paths intended for bicycles are not private land. So they are correct in saying that it cannot be ridden there.

But get this - Private land is private land, and a quick Google seems to concur that in the UK, as long as the land is privately held, then you can ride any damn vehicle you want on it, with or without registration and approval. So to say that it is "seriously misleading" to say they can't be ridden on private land is a total lie. If I want to strap a jetpack to my ass with no registration, I can.

(I can't believe a drawing of a donkey with a jetpack exists. That's what you were thinking, right?)

Sounds like their sales are being eaten into by a superior product, and they're happy to spread mistruths about it.

 

[sonnetg]

Re; Maryland USA - Electric Bicycle is not a moped . See http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2014RS/chapters_noln/Ch_294_sb0378E.pdf

oh wow.. so a 3000 Watt Raptor would need to be registered as an ATV/Dirt bike. I dont really plan to ride it on the road...so it does makes sense.

Thanks for the link.

 

[markz]

oh wow.. so a 3000 Watt Raptor would need to be registered as an ATV/Dirt bike.

You DO NOT have to do ANYTHING!!!!!!
No it would not need to be registered as an ATV/Dirt bike, not in the slightest.
Unless you plan to do wheelies in front of the "cop shop", or go blowing past people (with speed dial 911 on their cell phones), on walk/run/inline skate/"bicycle" lanes at 1000mph. Even then you will be sent to the penitentiary doing a dime bit, because theres no motorized anything allowed on those bike lanes. You will be sent straight to the hole, solitary confinement because you are a menace to society. LMFAO J/K!!!!!

You guys are getting way too paranoid, take a chill pill have a beer and chillax!

 

[sonnetg]

oh wow.. so a 3000 Watt Raptor would need to be registered as an ATV/Dirt bike.

You DO NOT have to do ANYTHING!!!!!!
No it would not need to be registered as an ATV/Dirt bike, not in the slightest.
Unless you plan to do wheelies in front of the "cop shop", or go blowing past people (with speed dial 911 on their cell phones), on walk/run/inline skate/"bicycle" lanes at 1000mph.

You guys are getting way too paranoid, take a chill pill have a beer and chillax!

hehe...you really think i would register (but it sure would be fun to call and confuse the heck out of MVA)

Times will change though...right now there are way too many loop holes to be bothered on classifying e-mopeds/e-dirtbikes/ATV/etc. I think it has been discussed in depth in another thread.

Here's an interesting article by electricbike.com: https://www.electricbike.com/electric-bike-law/

 

[LockH]

Hehe... Canada wrote ebike laws as *CONTINUOUS* motor output (versus PEAK motor outputs). So we get to play with that.

 

[Eskimo]

In Finland 1kw e-bike is not a moped. Period. It has different legal status.
In terminology they are very close. 1kw e-bike is called motorized bicycle. 4kw moped is called motorbicycle. 250w e-bike is called electric-assisted bicycle.
Insurance for 1kw e-bike is different. It has different price and name. With 1kw e-bike you are allowed to use MUT"s and everything, with 4kw moped you are usually not.
You do not have to register 1kw e-bike, only insure. 4kw moped you have to register. Up to 1995 mopeds had this same kind of requirement here. They had to carry insurance plate, but not registration plate. With 4kw moped helmet is compulsory. With e-bikes it is not. Type-approval is not required from 1kw e-bikes. So they are in very different class.
250w e-bike is allowed for off-road use. 1kw e-bike is not.
This is kinda nice. If somebody still tries to pull this "that is a moped"-stuff, you can just calmly note, that "sorry, it is not, it is in the law".

 

[dogman dan]

It just depends on the local laws.

In New Mexico, all bikes with a helper motor are classed as moped. Fortunately the regulation of mopeds in my state are very easy, you just need a driver's license. I can be perfectly legal here, with a 10,000w bike, provided it goes only 30 mph. But I generally build 2000w max, just for battery economy. Goes as fast as I can handle on the dirt trails, so I need no more.

Most places, a typical ES type ride is not a moped. It's an unlicensed home made motorcycle, with pedals.

 

[izeman]

new mexico is different. you have walter white there making crystal meth. lucky guys you are...

 

[motomech]

My Dad was a stickler for terminology
"Dad, can I use the drill?"> and he would had me a drill bit
"Oh, you mean the drill M-O-T-O-R".
To his engineer trained mind, a Motor was by definition electric and an internal combustion device was an engine.
So technically, electric MOTOR + peds(pedals) = Moped
And everybody is wrong.

I owned a motor scooter shop back in the '80's and the students would constantly call the scooters, Mopeds.
It drove me nuts and by the end of the week, I would practically scream at them, "do you see any pedals?
No wonder old mechanics are cranky.

 

[LockH]

Hehe... Ya, lots can have diff. names. The "moped" here was the term used in England/the UK. Most in North America may think they're walking on the "sidewalk"... there it's "pavements"... I think? Crazy ____________ [insert foreign country name here] Got a different name for everything.

"biçikletë me motor" Crazy Albanians.

 

[Teh Stork]

In Finland 1kw e-bike is not a moped. Period. It has different legal status.
In terminology they are very close. 1kw e-bike is called motorized bicycle. 4kw moped is called motorbicycle. 250w e-bike is called electric-assisted bicycle.
Insurance for 1kw e-bike is different. It has different price and name. With 1kw e-bike you are allowed to use MUT"s and everything, with 4kw moped you are usually not.
You do not have to register 1kw e-bike, only insure. 4kw moped you have to register. Up to 1995 mopeds had this same kind of requirement here. They had to carry insurance plate, but not registration plate. With 4kw moped helmet is compulsory. With e-bikes it is not. Type-approval is not required from 1kw e-bikes. So they are in very different class.
250w e-bike is allowed for off-road use. 1kw e-bike is not.
This is kinda nice. If somebody still tries to pull this "that is a moped"-stuff, you can just calmly note, that "sorry, it is not, it is in the law".

Coming from Norway, this is an very interesting development in Finland. Can you elaborate on when the rule went into effect, and what affect it has had on ebikes in finland? What is MUT's?

And does the 1kW e-bike have a speed restriction?

The reason I ask is that I've heard some conflicting facts about the finnish regulation

 

[amberwolf]

Here in AZ, as in other places, ebikes are NOT mopeds, they are bicycles. In AZ, the cutoff being as long as they are operated at less than 20MPH. Doesnt' even matter how big a motor is on it, as long as it is not ICE (which is limited in cylinder size). (and that they meet a few other bicycle-requirements).

 

[motomech]

I too am in Az. and I limit my speed to about 25 MPH and the Cops ignore me.
Lot's a smokey, loud, Gas bikes here that cruise near 30 mph and if the Cops are disposed to bother anyone, it is those guys.
In fact, with the decreases in the City budget and the increases in crime due to the "open border", traffic is not really being inforced much anymore.
The only real concession I make, is to not ride on the sidewalks during the day, but I do at night.

 

[markz]

increases in crime due to the "open boarder", traffic is not really being inforced much anymore.

Do you mean "open border"?
I thought they were pretty strict and the cops would do illegal check stops on the highway. Its amazing the stuff cops can get away with down there.

 

[motomech]

Yes, I corrected my spelling.

If by "illegal stops", you mean the police asking for proof of citizenship, that was curtailed by Federal edict and is not being done at the moment.
But that will change soon. For those of us who live near the border and are experiencing the increased crime of "Open Border policy" would like to see the authorities more empowered.
When I was a kid, I used to spend lot's of time right at the border camping and riding dirt bikes. I don't even go down there now, way too dangerous.

 

[Eskimo]

Coming from Norway, this is an very interesting development in Finland. Can you elaborate on when the rule went into effect, and what affect it has had on ebikes in finland? What is MUT's?
The reason I ask is that I've heard some conflicting facts about the finnish regulation

Conflicting facts? like what? My velo is now insured as a 1kw motorized bicycle, there is not any conflicting facts. No type approval is required.
New law came to effect in 1.1 2016. We have now the most liberal e-bike law in Europe. It amazed me and many that it happened, but it did.
No more "1kw e-bike is a moped"-crap. It"s history now. Winter is still on so i have not seen much difference on the streets.
MUT is Multi Use Trail. (i hope it is correct term) Where pedestrians and cyclists travel together sharing the same space.
I am really grateful that that 250w-crap is now past in this country. No more those continious questions and remarks.
Insurance for 1kw e-bike costs 65 euros per year. Moped insurance is 220 euros.
You are not even part of the EU, so this same change would be even more easy for you.

 

[TheBeastie]

Wikipedia is your friend, half of this threads posts about what is/isn't a moped could of been settled with this wiki URL, it shows about 30 different countries and what they consider a moped is and some are wildely different. Save other peoples reading time on this thread and internet traffic, database storage,server CPU time, green house gasses emitted from powering it all etc and read it. If you have some knowledge or good useful insight on the topic that isn't on wikipedia then great!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moped
A moped is a small motorcycle, generally having a less stringent licensing requirement than motorcycles, or automobiles, because mopeds typically travel about the same speed as bicycles on public roadways. Strictly speaking, mopeds are driven by both an engine and by bicycle pedals, but in common usage and in many jurisdictions the term moped is used for similar vehicles including a scooter.


While I am at it here is the "Pedelec" wiki page as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec

 

[LockH]

[Insert Thumb Up icon here] Hehe

 

[rider95]

LOL its up to the cop and if you have the balls to challenge him in court , bottom line my trail is may 24 then I will sue . Your rights are never free

 

[TheBeastie]

I am wondering if lithium cells get cheap enough then the kids that go crazy on monkey bikes will jump onto over powered ebikes on the streets.. And yes I am aware of the point of view that lithium cells are already cheap enough, but I don't think we are quite there yet.. These accidents on monkey bikes in Melbourne are pretty frequent.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/a/31232463/dallas-teen-pulled-to-safety-seconds-before-monkey-bike-exploded/
[youtube]kjXTeEwod48[/youtube]

 

[LockH]

Hehe... "monkey" bike. Had to look that up.

Pic caption "...bike AND car" exploded??? Suspect that (gas-powered?) bike lit up first.