Anyone else having problems with Champion Electric Bicycles?

[K Renner]

Ordered two Prodeco bikes from Champion Electric Bicycles at the beginning of March, after having been assured by e-mail by someone calling himself Jonathon H. : "If you ordered a bike today, it would ship within two weeks." It's been close to eight weeks now, & no shipment. This would be tolerable had Champion not charged my credit card on the day the order was placed.

Has anyone out there cancelled an order with Champion before shipment? Any problems getting money returned?

 

[cmugler]

It would be best to cancel your credit card transaction before the window of opportunity with the credit card company expires. I am sure they would refund your money as they did not honor the terms of the contract (that it would be delivered in 2 weeks) and the credit card company would back this up.

 

[Jason27]

That is shady. Prodeco should stop this false advertising.

 

[cmugler]

It sounds to me from a common sense standpoint that it is not Prodeco that is shady, it is Champion Bike Dealer that is engaging in questionable business practices. Just be sure the dealer you are buying from either waits till they ship before actually charging your card or that they have them in stock ready to ship.

 

[ChampionElectricBicycles]

Ordered two Prodeco bikes from Champion Electric Bicycles at the beginning of March, after having been assured by e-mail by someone calling himself Jonathon H. : "If you ordered a bike today, it would ship within two weeks." It's been close to eight weeks now, & no shipment. This would be tolerable had Champion not charged my credit card on the day the order was placed.

Has anyone out there cancelled an order with Champion before shipment? Any problems getting money returned?

Hi "K Renner", at the time your order was placed, Prodeco informed us that the window for shipment was "5-10 business days" or 2 weeks. Since then, the delays at Prodeco have gotten worse and worse and worse. We of course realize this. We do not unfortunately have an answer as to why there are such extensive delays. We have, on behalf of our customers, contacted Prodeco time and time again, only for the delays to seemingly continue. However, we have absolutely no control over how Prodeco runs their operation. We do not build the bikes, we do not ship the bikes. Every order that is placed with us goes directly to Prodeco and every order is shipped directly from their facility in Florida. We understand that the delays in getting these bikes out are long and extensive and anyone who wishes to cancel their order may do so at any time. We have a full refund policy within our terms of sale (as well as a 15 day money back guarantee), so any customer that is unhappy with the delay may cancel for a full refund at any time. However, we would urge everyone who has purchased a bike through us and is still pending shipment to contact Prodeco direct at 1-800-943-6190 for the latest update on their order.

We would love to have all of your bikes shipped out within 48-72 hours (which was the time frame up until about 3 months ago), but unfortunately due to extremely high demand for these bikes and what we assume is very slow production on the part of Prodeco, we cannot guarantee a specific window for shipment at this time. All we can do is update our customers based upon the updates that Prodeco gives to us (which we have done via phone and email for several weeks now). We are one of Prodeco's largest dealers, if not their largest, and we have a huge customer base. However, we understand not everyone is willing to wait several weeks before their bikes ship. For those customers, all you need to do is either call our customer service department or email us with a request to cancel and we will cancel your order. Hope this answers your question.

Brian W.
Champion Bicycles

 

[Jason27]

Blame Prodeco then.

 

[eastotto]

I still blame Champion and not Prodeco. I spoke with Champion in late december when they where claiming a 10 day delivery time. I had just spoken with Prodeco and they clearly indicated at least a 4 week to 6 weeks period before 2012 delivery because of battery component delays. At the time Champion indicated no delays on their website. I actually got in an argument with Champion as they refused to accept the reality that there was a delay. I think they are misleading the public as to time frames. Champion does not have to pay for their orders until 3 or 4 days before their order is ready to ship, that is the Prodeco Policy for their dealers. I feel it is dishonest for them to attempt to lock their customers in by charging their credit cards at the time of order and being unrealistic and dishonest about time frames. They should wait till Prodeco gives their notice of 3 day delivery and then charge the customers. Shame on you Champion Bikes and I implore you to change your business practices. You are the only Prodeco dealer getting complaints....wake up! Please order these bikes elsewhere from one of the many reputable dealers and send Champion a message.

 

[Jason27]

Prodeco should have stopped doing business with them if they are continuing to mislead customers about delivery times. I agree its not right.

 

[Sunder]

IMHO, the only thing Champion has done wrong is failing to keep the client updated and offering a refund before the customer complained on a forum... Well, that and not updating their website with real delivery times.

Sometimes I see complaints on this forum and I know not to buy from that retailer, and I appreciate those posts. Sometimes I see complaints, and I know the complainant is just an unreasonable b******* and I'm glad I never had to do business with them...

Ocassionally though, I realise that a lot of people have no idea how hard it is to manage a supply chain. When I used to sell computers in the early days, my supplier would tell me they had a part then send me a short delivery with a 6 week back order. Or send me a faulty part which I couldn't just swap, but had to RMA which could take 2 weeks.

In the worst case, I had ordered and paid for 10k of parts, and I offered 30 day terms after I delivered completed computers to my clients. It killed my cash flow. If I could have insisted on up front payment I would have.

Until proven otherwise. maybe cut them some slack?

 

[ChampionElectricBicycles]

I still blame Champion and not Prodeco. I spoke with Champion in late december when they where claiming a 10 day delivery time. I had just spoken with Prodeco and they clearly indicated at least a 4 week to 6 weeks period before 2012 delivery because of battery component delays. At the time Champion indicated no delays on their website. I actually got in an argument with Champion as they refused to accept the reality that there was a delay. I think they are misleading the public as to time frames. Champion does not have to pay for their orders until 3 or 4 days before their order is ready to ship, that is the Prodeco Policy for their dealers. I feel it is dishonest for them to attempt to lock their customers in by charging their credit cards at the time of order and being unrealistic and dishonest about time frames. They should wait till Prodeco gives their notice of 3 day delivery and then charge the customers. Shame on you Champion Bikes and I implore you to change your business practices. You are the only Prodeco dealer getting complaints....wake up! Please order these bikes elsewhere from one of the many reputable dealers and send Champion a message.

Since you just signed up here yesterday, I can assume you are probably one of our competitors trying to cash in on us being thrown under the bus for delays which are completely out of of control. We always provide the most accurate time frame to our customers which are given to us by Prodeco at the time. We have no control over a 5-10 day time frame turning into 3-4 weeks. Back in October, we were given an estimated time frame for mid November for the Phantom X2. That did not happen. Then we were told in November that the X2 would be out in December and again, that did not happen. Then in January, Prodeco made an official announcement that the X2 would be out in early April. Again, that did not happen. We have updated our customers along the way on that bike and all other delays, but that's all we could really do. We have no control over the delays. We are the "only Prodeco dealer getting complaints", because we bring in more business than anyone else. We have thousands of satisfied customers. Again, for those who are unsatisfied and wish to cancel made do so at any time.

Brian W.
Champion Bicycles

 

[Ykick]

What exactly does a Prodeco dealer do? It sounds like bikes are shipped directly to the end user? If so, why is a dealer involved? Because they can?

FWIW - I don't know of any ethical business practice where people are charged for back ordered items. HK doesn't even do that...

 

[eastotto]

Brian, I tried to order a regular 2012 Phantom X from you in December, not the X2. Even now on your website you indicate to buyers an exact time the X2 will be available (end of April) You charge people in full when they order. You have no indication that their may be delays beyond April nor have you indicated in the past that their would be delays beyond the posted delivery dates that you did not meet. Point is you should know by now there have been consistant delays in delivery times of Prodeco products and you should indicate this on your website. You could also not charge someones card until you get notification from Prodeco that ALL parts are in, they are assembling their bike and it will ship within 5 days. This is how most of your competitors work. When I called a competitor last fall for the older 2011 version of the Phantom X they placed my order, took my credit card info and called me about 6 weeks later to ask if I still wanted it(when it was ready to ship). It was not till then that they charged a persons card and it shipped within 5 days. That is the issue I have with you, charging up front when by now you are fully aware of potential delays but you give an exact time period on your website for delivery. I still standby that this is a poor why to do business and it is easy enough to charge their card only when you get the final assembly notification from Prodeco. And I am sure you recall the phone conversation (argument)with me when you insisted their would be no delays for the 2012 models after I had just talked with Prodeco and they informed me their would be delays. And yes I was right wasn't I, there were delays yet you led many unsuspecting customers to believe otherwise and still do.

 

[K Renner]

Sunder, I work in a supply chain department. And yes, we have horrible problems with our suppliers (some of them Chinese) causing delays in delivery to our customers, and causing our delivery estimates to look like out-and-out lies.

Brian W. at Champion, OK maybe Prodeco is "throwing you under the bus" maybe not. But you are engaging in a practice that is, at best, ethically questionable when you bill for items that you have not yet delivered (or shipped, in this case). One thing we do not do at my place of employment is to charge anyone's credit card before actually shipping the items ordered.

 

[ChampionElectricBicycles]

Brian, I tried to order a regular 2012 Phantom X from you in December, not the X2. Even now on your website you indicate to buyers an exact time the X2 will be available (end of April) You charge people in full when they order. You have no indication that their may be delays beyond April nor have you indicated in the past that their would be delays beyond the posted delivery dates that you did not meet. Point is you should know by now there have been consistant delays in delivery times of Prodeco products and you should indicate this on your website. You could also not charge someones card until you get notification from Prodeco that ALL parts are in, they are assembling their bike and it will ship within 5 days. This is how most of your competitors work. When I called a competitor last fall for the older 2011 version of the Phantom X they placed my order, took my credit card info and called me about 6 weeks later to ask if I still wanted it(when it was ready to ship). It was not till then that they charged a persons card and it shipped within 5 days. That is the issue I have with you, charging up front when by now you are fully aware of potential delays but you give an exact time period on your website for delivery. I still standby that this is a poor why to do business and it is easy enough to charge their card only when you get the final assembly notification from Prodeco. And I am sure you recall the phone conversation (argument)with me when you insisted their would be no delays for the 2012 models after I had just talked with Prodeco and they informed me their would be delays. And yes I was right wasn't I, there were delays yet you led many unsuspecting customers to believe otherwise and still do.

Eastotto, just to clarify, we do not charge anyone for backordered bikes. We have an extremely long list of customers waiting for the Phantom X2. Some have prepaid upon their request, others have not. However, we do not charge anyone for a bike that we know there's a pretty good chance is going to be delayed yet again. What you have to understand is that back in December, we continually received false/inaccurate information in regards to the Phantom X, X2, and all other 2012 models. As I mentioned in a previous post, these bikes were expected to be released in November, and this what we were told back in October by Prodeco. So it is very possible at that time in December, we might have charged you a week in advance for a bike we believed and were told was going to be shipped the following week. But we would not have charged you if we were not specifically told these bikes were going to ship at that time. We in fact, were. Once we were finally notified of additional delays, anyone who ordered an X2 at that time (or any other 2012 model) was either issued a credit or a refund, depending upon their request. As far as the "late April" time frame for the X2 is concerned, that is the latest update we have, given to us by management exactly 1 week ago. If that has changed, we were not notified by Prodeco of that change. Again, it's very easy to blame us and throw us under the bus, but at the end of the day, we take directives from Prodeco and we act as a representative for them and their product line. If they choose not to give their best dealers accurate updates when there's delays, then there is really nothing we can do about that. Believe me, we have had extensive communications with them over there about this. There's a lot more I could get into in regards to the constant delays and lack of proper updates that we have received (or rather not received), but I will refrain from elaborating any further until necessary. Again, we encourage all of our customers that are waiting for their bike to ship to contact Prodeco directly at 1-800-943-6190. We are trying our absolute best to do the right thing by our customers, but unfortunately there's only so much we can do.

Brian W.
Champion Bicycles

 

[Jason27]

You say some people have prepaid and others have not. What is that even mean?

 

[Sunder]

What exactly does a Prodeco dealer do? It sounds like bikes are shipped directly to the end user? If so, why is a dealer involved? Because they can?

This is called drop shipping and about 30% of eBay stores do this, if I remember correctly. It's.also very common in IT stores.

In effect, the drop shipper does the marketing and handles difficult customers as well as small payment and invoice issues and takes the risk of repudiated payment. Sometimes they do first level support.

If you think drop shipping is easy money, I dare you to try setting up a store!

 

[eastotto]

you do charge for back ordered bike. this is what comes up when you order a Phantom X2 on your site "By clicking the Place Order button, you are agreeing to the purchase of items from CHAMPION BICYCLES. In accordance with the Terms and Conditions, you are required to pay the full amount specified on your order summary." Also you give a specific ship time "end of March" All you need to do is replace that with "we will notify you when this bike is ready to ship and will charge your card at that time" Prodeco consistently delays there orders so it is dishonest of you to let customers believe that will be ready at a certain date. You also charge cards up front, that is what started this discussion when he was charged at the beginning of March and promisssed a 2 week delivery date

 

[ChampionElectricBicycles]

you do charge for back ordered bike. this is what comes up when you order a Phantom X2 on your site "By clicking the Place Order button, you are agreeing to the purchase of items from CHAMPION BICYCLES. In accordance with the Terms and Conditions, you are required to pay the full amount specified on your order summary." Also you give a specific ship time "end of March" All you need to do is replace that with "we will notify you when this bike is ready to ship and will charge your card at that time" Prodeco consistently delays there orders so it is dishonest of you to let customers believe that will be ready at a certain date. You also charge cards up front, that is what started this discussion when he was charged at the beginning of March and promisssed a 2 week delivery date

No, sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about.
We are in April, the projected time frame given was the end of April, not March.
The cards are not charged just because the order is submitted.
If you wish to make false inaccurate claims, go right ahead, but you are mistaken.

Brian W.
Champion Bicycles

 

[eastotto]

Brian' I realize we are in April and the fact remains that there is a 90% chance the X2 will not be ready to ship end of April so why do you lead people to believe that. Do you truethfully 100% factually believe someone ordering the X2 today from your website will have theirs shipped by the 30th of this month (7 days) ? With Prodecos past delays I don't know how you can promise a 7 day delivery date for new orders and sleep at night. This is being dishonest . I know Prodeco takes longer than seven days between order and shipment even with current bikes in inventory. I will let reader decide for themselves. Also did you or did you not charge K Renner's credit card at the beginning of March promising a 2 week ship date when 6 weeks later it still had not shipped. Did you or did you not post ship dates on your website in the past that were not met. Have you or have you not experienced consistent shipping delays from Prodeco Bikes that you have ordered in the past? Do you or do you not think it is dishonest to give someone a specific ship date when you have not been able to honor that in the past?

 

[ecowheelz]

This is exactly why we aren't Prodeco dealers (yet). There's been complaints about delays for months! I can't imagine having to deal with all these backorders, delays, customer complaints, etc.. We were considering a couple sample bikes to test at our shop, but everytime we called and asked, none were available.

I don't want to take sides on this issue, but ChampionElectricBicycles can't control what's going on at Prodeco. At the same time, we would have quit accepting orders if we kept having so many problems...

Sounds like a LOSE / LOSE situation

 

[cmugler]

My 2 cents, I am a Prodeco dealer in Santa Barbara, Ca. I order 6 at a time and have then palate shipped directly to me and sell them locally the old fashion way. That way I can service them if need be, a person can see and try before buying and I only take the money if they can take the bike. Granted sometimes I wait a little longer than expected before they get delivered but they fly off the selves when here as they are such a good product at a low price point. My last shipment of 6 that I received 2 days ago are 1/2 sold and the other 3 will likely be gone in a few days. Prodeco is overwelmed with the demand for these bikes and it may take them a while to have their suppliers properly in line so they can keep up with dealer orders. In the mean time those that are patient will get a superior product at a very reasonable price.

 

[Jason27]

In my opinion prodeco and champion need to stop advertising until the bikes are completely ready to go. Having customers wait several weeks with no word on delivery is just not right.

 

[neptronix]

Yeah, what is it with prodeco and multi month delivery times?
Seems like a good product at a good price.. but there is always a hitch, isn't there?

 

[tdekeyser1]

I just spoke with Prodeco a few moments ago. They said all the parts for the X2 will be in their shop in the next 7 days. Then they will start to put together the bikes and can ship shortly afterwards.

Champion has not charged my CC from my January invoice. Thank you Champion, cause I get to keep the interest on that $1300....lol. I hope to get a phone call from Champion as soon as they get word that my bike is ready. I hope they are on the first-ordered, first-received policy!

Invoice# 0000001533

I will write a great review for you Champion after I get the bike...thanks!

 

[K Renner]

C

hampion has not charged my CC from my January invoice. Thank you Champion, cause I get to keep the interest on that $1300....lol. I hope to get a phone call from Champion as soon as they get word that my bike is ready. I hope they are on the first-ordered, first-received policy!

Invoice# 0000001533

I will write a great review for you Champion after I get the bike...thanks!

[/quote]
Well, Champion charged my CC right away - I hope they're on a first PAID first received policy. They may still salvage a positive review from me. But they are first going to have to actually deliver what I paid for two months ago, and second - honor all the stated policies on their website to the letter (any gray areas falling in my favor to compensate for their ineptitude, describing it charitably, up to this point).